Respect (Or Lack Thereof) for Singles/Walkers

[saevel25]

On 8/2/2016 at 10:22 AM, Fourputt said:

Please explain how you think that a single playing in a regularly scheduled tee slot "messes up traffic flow".  I see this stated from time to time and it really makes no sense at all.  The only one who is negatively affected is the single who has to spend more time waiting on the foursome in front of him than he does actually playing golf.  Some guys don't seem to be bothered by it, but I hate being in that situation.

I agree. 

[imsys0042]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

You keep changing your hypothetical, and that forces me to change my answer.  In 40 years of playing and during the 5 years that I worked as a starter, I never saw a string of singles that tried to play through a foursome in succession.  So I stipulate that you are just making things up in an attempt to validate a questionable hypothesis.

In the far more likely scenario of a lone single playing a busy course (in which case he stays in his position and deals with the inevitable waits), or even playing on a less crowded course where he might play through one or two groups, he does little or nothing to affect the overall flow on the golf course.  

 

I agree that in most places it's unlikely.,  My home course has people using this argument to justify not letting people though.   Whether true or not, they claim to have let singles thru, but after a while they get tired of it and whoever is the next person behind them gets the shaft.

My personal take is that the actual number they have let thru is 1, or even 0.   There are a lot of people who refuse to team up at my club, so you can have several singles on the course in a short amount of time (hint: the club does not have the nicest membership).   I have witnessed 3 in a row however a couple of times.   The smart (and nice) thing to do would be to play the hole with the single and then let him putt out and he should be mostly gone by the time the foursome hits the next tee.  If you do that 3-4 times, you met 3-4 people.   But this is the place where people like to use "singles and twosomes have no priority" and saying things like "get some friends pal".   

If I am a single, I will let other singles play thru so I can take my time.   

[imsys0042]

This and the refuse to play with someone thread reminded me of a story from 10 years ago.  I took a weekend trip to South Jersey and played somewhere down there.   I was teamed up with a threesome.   I should have just gone on my own.  Mainly because one guy was doing business on his mobile phone and he was teeing off whilst doing it.

So anyway the other two guys were ok, but this guy wasn't even walking away or talking quietly the whole time on his phone.  If there was that much going on, don't show up.  He didn't even stop while people where swinging, myself and his buddies.   On 15 it just got to the point where it had been affecting me for several holes and my play was going downhill.   It didn't bother me at much, at first, because if there was some emergency I can see that taking a little bit, but we were slow because of it, so we are almost 4 hours to the 15th hole with this being constant (he was doing multiple calls, not even the same call to the same person).

So on the 15th green and I backed off a putt three times and then said "you know, this is not a freaking office".   Obviously he didn't like that and justified that this was the only time he could get out and I should accommodate it.  And I'll never forget this one, from one of the other guys "Let's look at you here.   You are playing by yourself.  You have no friends.   What does that say about you?"   ????!!!!

So they told me to go ahead.   I teamed up with, ironically for this thread, a single ahead of us and he couldn't believe it.   He told me to go see the pro and he apologized and gave me a free round.   Never got to use it because I lived 3 hours north, but nice of him to offer.

Sometimes you should just walk away....

 

[Kalnoky]

On 7/30/2016 at 6:10 PM, metbid said:

drmevo, do you mind if I ask where you live (just a general idea)?  I live in northern Minnesota, and play all over the state and in Wisconsin, quite often as a single.  I have had no issues I can remember .

Me either. I live in Oregon (Mid-Willamette Valley) and I usually play after work, twilight rates, etc. I just walk right on. I've not had any problems playing alone. I often pass others in the opposite fairway who are playing alone. But I guess the caveat is I never play alone on a weekend or during peak times.

Once a group of two meatheads I was following kept leaving the flags out, I assume in an attempt to slow me down. So I would have to walk up to the green to replace the flag, and then back to my ball for the approach shot. There was no need to do this as I usually take short game practice while waiting for groups. But that happened only once.

I'm sure in playing alone in urban areas is much more challenging. 

   

[metbid]

22 minutes ago, Kalnoky said:

Me either. I live in Oregon (Mid-Willamette Valley) and I usually play after work, twilight rates, etc. I just walk right on. I've not had any problems playing alone. I often pass others in the opposite fairway who are playing alone. But I guess the caveat is I never play alone on a weekend or during peak times.

Once a group of two meatheads I was following kept leaving the flags out, I assume in an attempt to slow me down. So I would have to walk up to the green to replace the flag, and then back to my ball for the approach shot. There was no need to do this as I usually take short game practice while waiting for groups. But that happened only once.

I'm sure in playing alone in urban areas is much more challenging. 

   

Whenever I go away from my home course, the first thing I try to do is get paired up with another group, be it a single, twosome, or threesome so as not to play as a single.  Barring that, I will then go as a single.

Yeah, there are always one or two in the crowd.  One time I caught a foursome with two open holes ahead, only one of the players even looked at me (just a quick glance) and they teed off.  But a threesome caught me while I was waiting and were very friendly and let me join up with them.  It turned into a quite enjoyable experience because they were very familiar with the course and gave me good advice on it.

[xcott]

I play as a single pretty often. It helps if you're willing to skip holes. Sometimes I'll play two balls (I make sure to pay for 2 greens fees though, dont want to steal </sarcasm>). I played as a single yesterday. Went off a few holes and it was quiet then caught up with some 4somes and a 5some. My approach is to play quickly behind them and try and hit the tee box while they are on it so I can possibly be let through. If I'm let through, I'll play very quickly (no looking for lost balls). If we're on the tee box, I'll ask them to finish driving if they want so that we're all going to the second shot at the same time and I can quickly get through the hole with a minor inconvenience. 

I hope my quickly playing behind them isn't seen as  trying to push them, but rather tryng to slide by as quick as possible

 

If the course is packed and it's 4some after 4some, then it could get a little annoying to move through for both them and myself. In that case I'll hope to join up or try and find a hole in the play where I can jump on a few holes and play. Or just do lots of putting/chipping practice while waiting (in this case I'll pay for 6 greens fees, since I will chip and putt a lot). It's a bit easier having a membership because I don't feel like I'm not getting my green's fee worth of play. Since I regularly will play two balls as a single, I actually pay for two memberships, one for each ball. 

Edited August 3, 2016 by xcott

[iacas]

On August 2, 2016 at 0:16 AM, gregsandiego said:

I never claimed anything of the sort. 

You did. Others have quoted it, I've quoted it… etc.

Your position is largely indefensible outside of some extreme hypotheticals.

[gregsandiego]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

You did. Others have quoted it, I've quoted it… etc.

Your position is largely indefensible outside of some extreme hypotheticals.

 When I said:

It sure seems like I have the minority opinion here. Me and the guys that seem to run golf courses that is.

Do they allow singles to play 2 balls?

Do they routinely allow singles to go off during the day?

I did not mean to imply I've taken a survey of the majority of the courses in the United States..

And by go off as a single I mean to do so and remain as a single.

By play 2 balls I mean get permission before hand to hit 2 drives, two second shots, etc.

I'm sorry my hypothetical (which I think is valid just to illustrate the effect of traffic flow) confuses everyone.

But I defend my position. And if  you called 100 courses  (not two where you have standing) and asked them the two questions above, I think you'd have your proof.

Nonetheless I know I'm not convincing anyone else here. No hard feelings.

 

 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

I did not mean to imply I've taken a survey of the majority of the courses in the United States..

Nobody (likely) took it that way. But people read it grammatically as written. It's that simple.

4 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

And by go off as a single I mean to do so and remain as a single.

That happens all the time. Not during peak times, but it happens quite often.

4 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

By play 2 balls I mean get permission before hand to hit 2 drives, two second shots, etc.

That's not what anyone means when they say "play two balls." Virtually nobody does that. That's ridiculous.

So what you've done is:

• make statements that are absurd.
• take other ordinary statements to an absurd extreme that doesn't happen in the real world.

Cool.

4 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

I'm sorry my hypothetical (which I think is valid just to illustrate the effect of traffic flow) confuses everyone.

I haven't seen anyone confused by it, and even if it confused one person it didn't confuse "everyone."

4 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

But I defend my position. And if  you called 100 courses  (not two where you have standing) and asked them the two questions above, I think you'd have your proof.

I've called twelve in the past few days.

All 12 have said "yeah, we'll let singles out" and "if they keep pace they can play two balls."

14 for 14. So I'm tapped out. I have my answer(s).

Cheers.

[natureboy]

On 8/2/2016 at 3:25 AM, Pretzel said:

Honestly as someone who works in the pro shop and as a starter (one and the same at my course), I really like it when singles come to the course so long as they don't expect a tee time all to themselves. They're easy to work into almost any tee sheet besides a full one meaning you don't have to worry about them coming up and asking if they'll be able to go soon over and over again like a group of two or three. 

That said, I only take issue with a single golfer if they insist on playing alone. We have several people with memberships that we can accommodate such a request for, since they paid for a full membership and we try to take care of them as best we can, but for a walk-on golfer during a busier period that generally can't be done. 

I've seen a couple groups try to boot a single that I've paired them with but it's pretty easy to fix if you see it happen. If they just seem to be casually ignoring the other golfer I like to get on the microphone between their tee shots to announce, "Now up on the number one tee is the 'Oblivious' group joined by the unfortunate single" as a little reminder. If they're being openly rude or mean I'll wait until the mean ones are in the middle of a swing before calling out, "Now up on the number one tee is the unfortunate single, following them will be the douchebag group". This way the single has the option of avoiding the people who were creating conflict if they don't want to join up with them, but it also leaves an opportunity for them to be paired without the single being shoved aside.

Is this your fantasy of what you'd like to say, or your club actually lets you get away with that? Latter would be surprising to treat any paying customers so confrontationally.

[Pretzel]

20 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Is this your fantasy of what you'd like to say, or your club actually lets you get away with that? Latter would be surprising to treat any paying customers so confrontationally.

I don't call them douchebag group. I just used that as a placeholder name to make it clear who I was referring to. I still call them by the name of the reservation, but we do bump them a group back if they're being jerks. I've only had one issue with people being terrible sports about joining others, but they were people who brought their own alcohol and didn't want to give it up so they got booted, if my memory is correct.

[natureboy]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

I don't call them douchebag group. I just used that as a placeholder name to make it clear who I was referring to. I still call them by the name of the reservation, but we do bump them a group back if they're being jerks. I've only had one issue with people being terrible sports about joining others, but they were people who brought their own alcohol and didn't want to give it up so they got booted, if my memory is correct.

That makes more sense. I know customer service has declined in general, but I didn't think it had slipped that far. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by natureboy

[Barbarian]

I try and walk at least 9 holes 3 times a week. IMO, the misperception is that walkers are slow. I can play 9 holes in under 90 min and commonly 75 min. And usually can keep that pace with 2 of us if we play ready golf and first to the ball hits. I understand that a single can disrupt the flow so if it's busy, I never push or ask to play through. I just do things to slow me down and match the pace of play. Putt and chip 2-3 balls, maybe drop and hit a couple of wedges or even a couple of drives. I had a situation just this week where the pro shop was letting me go off #10. As I was walking up, a 3 some was coming off 9 so I waited and let them hit. They were like, "thanks - we will be out of your way in no time." LOL, no you won't but its all good. They just couldn't in no way whatsoever comprehend that a walker would play faster than them. They really thought that they would leave me out of sight. I had to waste a lot of time not to push them. We finished in about an hour and 45 min which is normal around here so they werent slow, just not as fast. It is hard for a walker to play through though. We might be faster in the end, but we are slower in that key transition moment - the time to get from tee to second shot that's makes passing awkward and difficult. 

[Nutsmacker]

On 7/30/2016 at 6:42 PM, drmevo said:

Fair warning, this is a bit of a rant...

I used to belong to a private club where I had regular group I played with, but due to various factors I gave up the membership this year, and I find myself playing as a single a lot more often on the local public courses.

In the past week or two, I've been cut in front of multiple times, hit into a few times despite trying to leave my push cart somewhere visible, even the cart girl passed me by on a really hot day when I could've used a Gatorade OK, the last one was not the end of the world, but after everything else I was beginning to feel invisible.

I get that as a single sometimes you have to take what you can get and just roll with the punches, but this in particular was ridiculous: It was late-afternoon and the starter told me to go tee off. I was about 20 steps from the first tee box when a kid (probably older teen) and his dad roll up from behind, drive past me up to the next set of tees and proceed to get ready to tee off.  They looked back and saw me, where I was now on the tee box behind them, at which point I was sure they'd apologize for not noticing me and either ask to join (which would've been fine) or wait.  Instead, they just played their tee shots and drove off. If that was the last time I saw them it would've been one thing, but I ended up waiting on them for nearly every shot through the first five holes.  Finally they skipped ahead to somewhere else on the course and I didn't get held up the rest of the time.

Another time, I was already at the tee box (again, at the direction of the course), when a foursome rolled up ahead of me. This time, a lady in the group yelled back and said they were in a league and that I shouldn't be there. I explained that the course had told me to tee off.  She said, "Well, they shouldn't have" and they proceeded to play in front of me.  They were about 40 yards up so a polite discussion to sort things out wasn't going to happen. I waited for them all to play their second shots and got ready to tee off myself, except the lady turned her cart around and just waited in the middle of the fairway. I really wasn't in the mood to put up a fight so I went back in the pro shop and they sent me off the other side.

It's not like I'm trying to play during prime time, these were both late-afternoon tee times.  I probably could've stuck up for myself more, but I didn't want to start a confrontation in either case at the risk of ruining my round. 

Does anyone else run into this regularly? Not to get all "woe is me," but it starts to feel like the rest of the course wishes you weren't there, and in some cases people behave as though you aren't. Is this just the norm?

 

 

 

I play as a single quite often.  I also play as a foursome regularly with some friends.  We always let a group play through if they are on our tails and we have an open hole ahead of us.  I have no interest in playing when someone is right up on us; regardless if it is a single or a foursome.  However, when I am a single player...I would say that I am allowed to play through maybe 30-40 percent of the time.  I never ask the group because I think its ridiculous that I have to ask.  If I have to ask; then they clearly don't want me playing through.  It is obvious if I am standing for 10 minutes every shot.  When you don't let the faster player through then frankly you are an ahole.  Letting a single through can essentially take no time off of a foursome's round.  Especially if you all 5 of you tee off on a par 3.  Single putts out and the others go through the routine of putting out.  By the time they have finished; the single usually has tee'd off and is lining up his approach.  Barely an inconvenience.  I never understand why golfers just don't let faster players through.  We need more people playing this game, not less.

[RayG]

If you're playing as a single with open holes ahead, and the GROUP behind you hits into you because they "can't see you".. you are delusional. YOU are SLOW.

[anker0071]

I play as a single walker most of the time. If I run up on a group I will play my "normal" pace and be visibly waiting to see if they will let me through or join. If after two holes that doesn't happen, then I will slow down by hitting 2 drives, 2 pitches inside 50 yards, and a couple 8-12 foot puts (along with the ball I score). If then a group rolls up on me, I will tell them the group ahead won't let me play thru or join and I'll offer to join the group behind. It's all you can do. In my "tiny part of the world" the single walkers are the fastest players and the low single caps anyway. I've had more people apologize to me after we join up for "holding you up". Better players in my experience really don't mind or care how other people in the group play. We all shot in the 90's at some point of our lives, just maybe at a different time.

[3 Putt Bogey]

Let me preface this by saying I realize that this approach isn't for everyone.  I am married with 1 & 3 year old daughters at home so I can't golf as much as I would like unless I make some sacrifices on my end.  I always ensure that I am the first one at the course... I beat the grounds crew.  Doing this a few times will allow you to get to know the staff. 

Now, I get to the course and start playing the instant it is bright enough outside to see my first tee shot.  I pay them in the clubhouse after my round.  It works out great; I get to play a lot of golf and I am done and home before my kids are even done with breakfast so I don't feel like I am being a bad father! haha

[drmevo]

1 hour ago, RayG said:

If you're playing as a single with open holes ahead, and the GROUP behind you hits into you because they "can't see you".. you are delusional. YOU are SLOW.

Who ever said that was the situation?