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Trump Courses - Would You Pay to Play One Now?

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OK folks, we are doing a pretty good job of keeping politics out of this thread, but please be diligent. 

That being said, Doral is not doing well per reports.

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Eric Trump said the resort was “on fire,” but the company later said profitability was down 69 percent.
Quote

At Doral, which Trump has listed in federal disclosures as his biggest moneymaker hotel, room rates, banquets, golf and overall revenue were all down since 2015. In two years, the resort’s net operating income — a key figure, representing the amount left over after expenses are paid — had fallen by 69 percent.

I've only seen Doral from TV, but if I weighed expense versus prestige and history, it would not make my list. 

Turnberry would be a more desirable locale, but then again, Scotland, Ireland, Wales and England have lots of terrific courses with great histories. And gems can be found for less money. Call me frugal, but I would rather save my bucket list money for St. Andrews and Pebble Beach.

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15 hours ago, DrMJG said:

@klineka Not sure where I explained, except in passing, that my politics is a consideration, just that it was. Not sure what the "rule" I borderline broke here.

In my initial response to you I quoted the portion that I felt was "dangerously close to bringing politics into the conversation"

I'll quote it again

18 hours ago, DrMJG said:

 And, it was interesting that this topic appeared right after AG Barr issues his interpretation of the report.  I will leave this comment stand on its own.

That comment has absolutely nothing to do with this topic, it directly involves politics, and it's not even an accurate statement.

I have no issue with anything else you have said, like I said before, it's perfectly fine to state that you will/won't play the course because of political reasons, but when you start mentioning specific events that happened in politics, that is crossing the line, IMO.

It's not even that big of a deal, I'm not even a moderator, I was simply stating that your comment (the portion I quoted) was dangerously close to bringing politics into the discussion, which we are actively trying to avoid, especially in this thread.

15 hours ago, DrMJG said:

 So be cautious of how you interpret my intentions. 

I didn't interpret your intentions at all, I simply responded to the words you typed.

15 hours ago, DrMJG said:

And accept that ownership, in THIS case, for more than a handful, is a consideration.

Again, that isn't what I had issue with.

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On 5/22/2019 at 1:49 PM, DrMJG said:

Perhaps I should have said it reappeared.  ( I have only been on this site for just under 2 years. So my comment reflects my perception.)

At the end of the day, if your perception is wrong, that's on you, and the ban on political/religious topics dates back to October 2016. So the topic was started before such time. This was, IIRC, one of the topics which promoted the switch, but as @DaveP043 said, we've proven quite possible to discuss politically adjacent things without crossing the line.

I would pay to play one if I thought the value was good. Turnberry might be highest on the list.

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On 5/23/2019 at 8:32 AM, klineka said:

In my initial response to you I quoted the portion that I felt was "dangerously close to bringing politics into the conversation"

I think it would be good to avoid discussing whether someone brought politics into the conversation as well.

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I played Doonbeg shortly after he bought it, well before he ran for POTUS. And while you couldn’t pay me to play any of his courses at this point, I wouldn’t play Doonbeg again anyway, too many better courses in that general area of the west coast of Ireland.

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Oddly enough, I played an interclub match yesterday at Trump National Washington DC, in Sterling, VA. Its a nice facility, 2 good golf courses (and a butt-ugly waterfall "feature"), and we played with (or against) good guys.  But the reason for posting is that Mr. Trump was playing yesterday too.  I had suspected as much when I drove in and saw a portion of the parking lot cordoned off by police.  It didn't impact us at all, we weren't playing the same course as he was, but we did see about a dozen carts coming along when we were playing an adjacent hole, and saw Mr. Trump take one swing.  No big deal for us, the guys we were with said its a fairly common occurrence.

None of that says anything about choosing to play any of Mr. Trump's courses, I've answered that question previously, but it was a little out of the ordinary for me to see the President.

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On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 1:28 AM, phan52 said:

I played Doonbeg shortly after he bought it, well before he ran for POTUS. And while you couldn’t pay me to play any of his courses at this point, I wouldn’t play Doonbeg again anyway, too many better courses in that general area of the west coast of Ireland.

Trump Doonbeg is the best place to stay in that area. Since he bought the course and imploded a few of Norman's mistakes, the course is much better now. Lahinch is a better course. But the draw to Trump Doonbeg is staying there, and upon staying there ya might as well play the course. And if anyone wants to pay me to play anywhere....I'm game.

A great itinerary is just north of this area. With Connemara, Carne, Enniscrone, Sligo at the south end. Work up to Donegal and Narin Portnoo. That's maybe the best bang for buck trip you can do in Ireland. Stay at Mt Falcon a few nights. Yea, That's a nice trip. Have done that twice. Tapping into Lahinch and Trump Doonbeg at beginning or end works well too. 

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Here in Southern California, there are simply better courses that can be played for $100-$300 less per round. From a strictly monetary perspective, kind of hard to justify when those are far closer to me. If I'm paying $200-$400 a round, I'll consider it if I'm on vacation or on a trip, but it better be nice (Maui, Cancun, etc). 

My old golf teacher has a relative who worked at Trump National and said the Donald bankrolled his relative's wedding because he was a good employee, so he was obviously very pro-Trump because the guy apparently got a free $50,000 wedding.

I'm not a fan of the Donald, so even if he had the best course in the country and it was in my backyard, I'd still strongly consider skipping it. Without getting into politics, my family from South Jersey knew back in the 80s and 90s that the guy was a scam. I remember going to his Atlantic City properties and thinking "what a dump" compared to the places I'd see in Vegas. I wouldn't be surprised if his golf courses have some similarities.

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3 minutes ago, Sidehatch said:

 

My old golf teacher has a relative who worked at Trump National and said the Donald bankrolled his relative's wedding because he was a good employee, so he was obviously very pro-Trump because the guy apparently got a free $50,000 wedding.

I'm not a fan of the Donald, so even if he had the best course in the country and it was in my backyard, I'd still strongly consider skipping it. Without getting into politics, my family from South Jersey knew back in the 80s and 90s that the guy was a scam. I remember going to his Atlantic City properties and thinking "what a dump" compared to the places I'd see in Vegas. I wouldn't be surprised if his golf courses have some similarities.

So the Donald pays 50k for an employees wedding.....What employer does that...None I have known. And you are no fan. He used other peoples money in AC. He uses his money for golf courses because he knows that business....Shady NJ and gambling.....Notsomuch. His golf courses are first class every possible way. 

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We do not know yet whether Trump uses his money or someone else's for his money-losing golf courses.  It's unfortunate that virtually all golf courses lose money these days - because people no longer have the time and money to support them as was done 60 years ago, but it is true.  We shall see whether Trump invests in his courses or whether it is oligarch money, someday, I'm sure.  Why would a real estate investor who has to make money do it, after all?

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39 minutes ago, Lil Greener said:

Why would a real estate investor who has to make money do it, after all?

I don't know enough about this specific person to try to read his mind or speculate what he will or won't do, or his motivations for such.

However, there are plenty of wealthy individuals who run businesses either at less profit than they could be making, or even at a loss, for various reasons (some good, some bad).  Elon Musk's treatment of some Tesla patents and Curt Schilling's video game company are two opposite ends of this.

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1 hour ago, Lil Greener said:

We do not know yet whether Trump uses his money or someone else's for his money-losing golf courses.  It's unfortunate that virtually all golf courses lose money these days - because people no longer have the time and money to support them as was done 60 years ago, but it is true.  We shall see whether Trump invests in his courses or whether it is oligarch money, someday, I'm sure.  Why would a real estate investor who has to make money do it, after all? 

Your point of view is sadly out of touch with reality. Trump almost always buys distressed property where the owner prior dumped buckets of money in. He buys at 20cents on dollar and the properties make money. Turnberry and Doonbeg are good examples on that. He brought Ferry Point along after decades of poor management and now it is doing well. Those records are public as it is a muni. But he just manages it. His build out in Scotland was his only true from scratch build. My guess is it doesn't make money....Many people jump into golf courses based on passion for game and the course vs profit motive.  

Golf industry is doing well. Play is up. Courses opening more than closing...Those are facts...

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Speaking of reality, if one looks at the financial statements for both Turnberry and Doonbeg, which are filed with the Irish and Scottish authorities, he has lost a fortune on both, after investing someone's fortune (doubtful it is his fortune [if he has one]).  Check the facts.  They're usually enlightening.  And you're mistaken -- golf clubs nationwide suffer.  Not all -- but many.  Ever been on a golf club board?   Try it -- you may very well be surprised.

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1 hour ago, Lil Greener said:

Speaking of reality, if one looks at the financial statements for both Turnberry and Doonbeg, which are filed with the Irish and Scottish authorities, he has lost a fortune on both, after investing someone's fortune (doubtful it is his fortune [if he has one]).  Check the facts.  They're usually enlightening.  And you're mistaken -- golf clubs nationwide suffer.  Not all -- but many.  Ever been on a golf club board?   Try it -- you may very well be surprised.

PGA stats published show rounds played up. Participation up. Are some clubs struggling, yes and they will continue to. I have not seen Turnberry or Doonbeg financials...But a review of his buy prices vs the prior investments by the previous owners suggest your points are off. I have worked in golf industry for 10 years and have attended PGA Show every year. Up to this year the mood has typically been tepid at best. It is upbeat now. There is no data that can convince you otherwise as you just hate the man. And I am at the exact opposite end. I have played 11 of his courses and 6 of them before and after his ownership. Every time it got better. Doonbeg, Turnberry, Hudson Valley, Philly, The two in NJ....all better than previous ownership and the 4 private in US are at capacity of membership. 

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Yes I would love to play at one of Trump's golf courses and would pay top money to do so.  Not that I give a damn about Trump or any other politician, I just love the look of the courses.  It's pretty sad when golf has to be mixed with politics.

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I won't argue with you - as we're all entitled to our opinions.  But, I do worry about golf and its future.   Tiger helps draw people in, it seems.  And, I'm always thankful to see people put money into courses.  No matter who.   Or what country.   Or how rich.  It's good for golf.   

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