1 putt vs 3 putt

[iacas]

On September 12, 2016 at 4:46 PM, dave s said:

I didn't miss the point at all.  Do you honestly think I ONLY practice short putts and miss 20 footers by 3-5 feet EVERY time?  I can tell you I most certainly DON'T.

He didn't say that.

On September 12, 2016 at 4:46 PM, dave s said:

Also, I can't tell you the last time I had 36 or more putts in an 18-hole round.  It's been years. That's because I chip them close, (note: to within FIVE FEET most of the time) and MAKE the putt.  20-30 footers are left inside that range as well.  And I MAKE the next putt because I PRACTICE 2-5' range putts.

Most of my second putts that follow a 25-40 foot putt are tap-ins… because my distance control is good.

That's the point people were trying to make, including @Pretzel and myself. If you find yourself needing to make an inordinate number of 2-5' putts, you have to ask yourself why? If it's because of poor lag putting, fix the cause rather than improving how you handle the result.

On September 12, 2016 at 4:46 PM, dave s said:

What I can't understand is some of you guys disagreeing with PRACTICE on a specific area of the game.

People should practice most parts of their game. But as others have noted it's more about where and how you spend your practice time. Spending more than a few percent of your time on 2-5' putts is wasteful (unless it's a glaring weakness).

(It's also something you can do at home.)

On September 12, 2016 at 4:46 PM, dave s said:

Players miss those putts because they don't practice them regularly or they simply take them for granted.

The topic is not about "do you miss five footers"? The topic is about putting, and three-putting, and one-putting (from longer distances). In that context, we're completely within reasonable limits to say "if you're practicing five footers because you have a lot of them after a long first putt… get better at the long first putt."

On September 12, 2016 at 4:46 PM, dave s said:

For goodness sake, I just saw Rory two-putt from three feet Saturday.  I also saw Brandt Snedeker practice 2, 3, 5 and 10' putts for 30 minutes at Firestone two months ago.  Maybe show up to Brandt's gig and tell him he needs to get better at 30 footers so he can eliminate short putting practice.

He might need to. Have you read my book, Dave? Just asking… players have lots of things where they don't practice efficiently, or spend their time the best.

And the word (my words, Broadie's words, etc.) are starting to get more and more out there, and more and more people are benefiting from it.

On September 12, 2016 at 4:46 PM, dave s said:

Nobody will ever convince me that short game practice, and short-range putting practice is a bad idea.  When those 2-5' putts show up during my round, they go in.  It's not because I'm a crappy lag putter, it's because they're going to show up during a round. Sheesh.

I could convince you of it if you're spending too much of a percentage of your time doing it.

FWIW, I make those putts, too, and… almost never practice my putting.

On September 12, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Pretzel said:

We weren't arguing that it wouldn't help you. We were merely stating that practicing your distance control is a better use of your time if you have a limited amount of time to practice, since it will be more beneficial overall to your game than 2-5' putting practice. I also never made a claim that you only practiced from 2-5', just mentioned that perhaps you were overvaluing how much it could influence your scores.

Practice rarely hurts you, but optimizing your practice to get the most benefit out of the smallest time investment is what most people are interested in so they can improve the most in what time they have available to them. Lag putting, in terms of a time/benefit ratio, is more effective practice than putting from 2-5', plain and simple. 

QFT.

8 hours ago, Groucho Valentine said:

I completely disagree with the comment that somebody posted that one should practice long putts more than short ones. You should practice draining putts. Not lagging them. You're going to make a lot more 3 footers than you will 40 footers. You hunker down on a practice green and drain 20 to 30 3 and 4 footers at a time and eventually you end up having no fear of that putt.

The true question is simply which is costing you more: is three-putting from 30 feet costing you more strokes, or is missing from 2-5 feet costing you more?

Spend more time on the area costing you the most strokes.

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

However, in my experience, more 3-putts happen due to poor speed than any other single cause.  Its really hard to miss a read/aim by 5 or 6 feet, but its not uncommon to leave a long putt 5 or 6 feet short or long.  Consequently, for someone who has a lot of 3-putts, I believe the best way to improve is to practice longer putts in order to improve distance control.  A part of that practice is to learn to hit the longer putts exactly hole-high, and not worry about getting past the hole.  In essence, getting the speed right is more important on longer putts than "giving the putt a chance to go in."

Yeah.

[Jeremie Boop]

On 9/8/2016 at 9:47 AM, Jeremie Boop said:

I don't necessarily always try to make a putt, especially the longer ones. What I do is try to make sure I give myself a short 2nd putt at max. I'm sure you've heard about imagining a circle around the hole that you are trying to get the ball into when putting from far away. Most of the time this works out pretty well for me.

After following this thread for awhile after my post I started focusing exclusively on trying to make every putt, even the long ones, instead of just getting it close. The effective result was a drop in my average putts per green from 1.9ish down to 1.6ish. Almost all the longer putts stopped much closer to the hole giving me virtual tap ins *within 2 feet*. It really is amazing how a small change in thought process improves putting. Granted, part of that was from greenside wedges being a bit better, but part was because I was able to drop some longer putts than I usually made as well as almost completely eliminated three putts all together  *only one three putt in the last 45 holes played*. I definitely recommend trying to switch your mindset to "make" instead of "get close" on all your putts. Though I agree with @iacas that you should be conscious of your speed and try to just make it to the hole on the longer putts, as I did get a bit too aggressive at first when switching to the thought of "make".

[DrvFrShow]

First I have to consider that I haven't been practicing that much. This makes a 10 foot putt or longer a lag putt. I'll try to get them as close as possible  for a tap in. If they go in great. If not, no damage done. If I go for the putt and miss and it goes 6 feet past I'm three putting most of the time. You have to put in the hours to get good.

[JonMA1]

On 9/12/2016 at 4:46 PM, dave s said:

I didn't miss the point at all.  Do you honestly think I ONLY practice short putts and miss 20 footers by 3-5 feet EVERY time?  I can tell you I most certainly DON'T.

Also, I can't tell you the last time I had 36 or more putts in an 18-hole round.  It's been years. That's because I chip them close, (note: to within FIVE FEET most of the time) and MAKE the putt.  20-30 footers are left inside that range as well.  And I MAKE the next putt because I PRACTICE 2-5' range putts.

What I can't understand is some of you guys disagreeing with PRACTICE on a specific area of the game.  Players miss those putts because they don't practice them regularly or they simply take them for granted.  For goodness sake, I just saw Rory two-putt from three feet Saturday.  I also saw Brandt Snedeker practice 2, 3, 5 and 10' putts for 30 minutes at Firestone two months ago.  Maybe show up to Brandt's gig and tell him he needs to get better at 30 footers so he can eliminate short putting practice.

Nobody will ever convince me that short game practice, and short-range putting practice is a bad idea.  When those 2-5' putts show up during my round, they go in.  It's not because I'm a crappy lag putter, it's because they're going to show up during a round. Sheesh.

dave

For what it's worth, I do have trouble with 3-5' putts - probably to the point of what would be considered a glaring weakness. So I have to practice those short putts every bit as the longer ones. Otherwise I'll continue turning birdies into pars and pars into bogeys.

I also practice from midrange and from off the green just a much. I have at least some idea of what my game needs (which is pretty much everything) and practice accordingly.

[IndianaDundee]

I voted for get it close but at the same time I am trying to make every putt but if I miss I expect the ball to stop within 2 ft of the cup.  While I have missed a 2 ft putt on occasion (extremely unlevel pin location) I expect to sink the second putt.  The key is to get the speed right on longer putts so that even a bad line will leave you close.  Today I played 9 holes with my son and 2 putted all 9 holes.  First time that has ever happened.  Most the time I have some 1 putts and a 3 putt or 2 generally when my first putt is over 50 ft. But I had no great approach shots today leaving my shortest first putt from 15 ft and my best putt was an 80 ft uphill putt with 6 ft of break that rolled 6 inches behind the hole.

[natureboy]

3 hours ago, IndianaDundee said:

my best putt was an 80 ft uphill putt with 6 ft of break that rolled 6 inches behind the hole.

That is an outstanding lag 

[IndianaDundee]

7 hours ago, natureboy said:

That is an outstanding lag 

Thanks.  I have made one from 50 ft before but that was probably my nearest miss from over 50 ft.  Even on putts that long my goal is to leave it within 2 ft of the hole.  That way if I miss somewhat I still only have maybe 5 ft or so.  My putting has really improved this year. I blame it on switching to an Oddessy 2 ball that I lengthened and added a counterweight to the grip.

[phillyk]

A big difference for me in lag putting to try and make longer putts is green speed.  When greens are rolling 10+, it's easier for me to judge how hard to hit the ball.  But when you get below that, you really have to hit the ball hard, especially when going uphill, and my judgement gets worse on how hard that is.  This way I can blame the course for 3 putts ... and instead of practicing long putts on those courses, I'll just ask maintenance to cut the greens lower.

[dchoye]

19 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

For what it's worth, I do have trouble with 3-5' putts - probably to the point of what would be considered a glaring weakness. So I have to practice those short putts every bit as the longer ones. Otherwise I'll continue turning birdies into pars and pars into bogeys.

I also practice from midrange and from off the green just a much. I have at least some idea of what my game needs (which is pretty much everything) and practice accordingly.

I hate it when the PP picks up my ball 3 feet away when I want to putt out without my consent.  Unless I'm playing a money match than I'll take it as a gimme 

Somedays I m not as confident with short putts. Even 2.5 feet putts on a sidehill cut hole on fast green is difficult to make and I want to practice those especially when I anticipating a stroke play tournament to play in 

I was playg with my cousin and his friends and after the few holes I said in a nice but firm tone to "not pick my putt. I want to putt out" 

[roamin]

On 9/13/2016 at 8:36 PM, iacas said:

Most of my second putts that follow a 25-40 foot putt are tap-ins… because my distance control is good.

100% This. I had a hard time with the poll question because as much as I'm trying to make every putt, if I miss it, I want my second putt to be a tap-in (< 6 inches). Remove the chance off a 3-putt by stopping it right next to the hole.

I'm horrible at reading greens most days but am a solid 2-putter. Lag putts don't scare me as much as the ones just before lag putt "range". Most of my 3-putts come from being timid on a 15-20 footer and leaving it 5 feet short. The tip mentioned earlier about being a bit more aggressive from 15 feet and in will be a good one for me, I think.

[dchoye]

Seems like the question is too black or white.   Why not try for two putts? 

You get your fair share of short putts going in for one and for long ones you get your fair share of tap ins and testers 

[JonMA1]

On 9/15/2016 at 1:29 PM, dchoye said:

I hate it when the PP picks up my ball 3 feet away when I want to putt out without my consent.  Unless I'm playing a money match than I'll take it as a gimme 

Somedays I m not as confident with short putts. Even 2.5 feet putts on a sidehill cut hole on fast green is difficult to make and I want to practice those especially when I anticipating a stroke play tournament to play in 

I was playg with my cousin and his friends and after the few holes I said in a nice but firm tone to "not pick my putt. I want to putt out" 

This goes along the same logic as playing 100% by the rules. I want the degree of difficulty to be close to that a tournament. And for me, a 3ft putt is not automatic. I need as much practice as possible when there's something on the line.

Before this year, I would often putt with the flag in for the purpose of keeping up the pace of play. But I discovered a vertical flag stick makes for an easier target. So this year I rarely keep it in.