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MrTom

Does Type of Ball Matter for High Handicappers?

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49 minutes ago, MacDutch said:

@MrTom You are not a high handicapper in my book. Scoring around 90 thats hcp 15-18 depending on the course you play.

Thanks for the morale boosting comment MacD :-) what's classed as a high handicapper then?  I always thought

0 to 8 was low

8 to 16 was mid

16 + high

That's all my opinion no fact behind it. Any of you guys practice so much it hurts the next day and the calluses come away and bleed on the hands... had a monster hip movement session yesterday on the range and I'm paying for it today :~(

 

Love this game.

Edited by MrTom

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4 hours ago, MrTom said:

Thanks for the morale boosting comment MacD :-) what's classed as a high handicapper then?  I always thought

0 to 8 was low

8 to 16 was mid

16 + high

That's all my opinion no fact behind it. Any of you guys practice so much it hurts the next day and the calluses come away and bleed on the hands... had a monster hip movement session yesterday on the range and I'm paying for it today :~(

Love this game.

Of those golfers who have handicaps, 15 is about average. However, most golfers do not have official GHIN #'s and tend to be less skilled golfers. The average golfer is more likely ~ 20-25 HCP in skill.

What is 'good' depends a lot on your frame of reference. Many on this site consider only scratch to plus to be 'good'. The real average golfer would probably view all single handicaps as good golfers.

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6 hours ago, MacDutch said:

@MrTom You are not a high handicapper in my book. Scoring around 90 thats hcp 15-18 depending on the course you play.

 

I agree with this ^^^. If you are driving the ball 290 yards and you have a good short game (like you say) you are well on your way. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Kalnoky said:

I agree with this ^^^. If you are driving the ball 290 yards and you have a good short game (like you say) you are well on your way. 

 

 

Haha please don't take my short game strength quote or driver yardage as an indication of my consistent ability... :8) 

But like you said hopefully I'm on my way. 

The chrome Softs should get me down to playing off single figures :whistle:

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On 9/19/2016 at 2:22 PM, natureboy said:

Do tour-level balls really accentuate spin? I thought that ProV1 and similar introduction was part of a tour increase in driving distance in ~2003. That was attributed IIRC to reduced spin. I was aware that the urethane cover provided better bite on slower speed short game shots, but I wasn't under the impression that they increased spin on full shots?

Are some of you just saying that the harder less expensive balls, spin even less than the less spinny tour-level balls?

The modern solid-core golf balls are different in a number of ways compared to the balls from the 1990's and earlier.  All of the old rules-of-thumb no longer apply.  

One of the big benefits of the solid-core design is when used with longer clubs like a driver and fully compressed, the ball doesn't spin as much.  This typically results in longer, straighter drives.  When used with short irons and wedges, the core isn't compressed...this engages the cover, so a ball with a urethane cover will spin a lot.  It's called "spin separation"...low spin off the driver and high spin with short irons and wedges.  The amount of separation will vary depending on the model.

The Surlyn covered distance type balls are often softer than tour balls now, but they are almost always lower spinning, even compared to the tour balls that spin the least.

This chart doesn't show how driver shots stack up, but it does show how different models compare on a partial wedge shot:

Spin-golf digest spin chart 2015.png

The different colors represent different price points

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I've gone through phases of buying a random selection of cheap balls, used Pro V1s, and new Pro V1s. I then played 2 of my best rounds with a Callaway Warbird I'd found in the trees, and now it's my only ball. I take out a new one every time I tee up on the 1st. They're what you'd describe as a 'cheap two-piece' ball I reckon. I seem to hit the ball straighter off the tee, while I've not noticed a difference approaching the green from distance, chipping/ pitching around the green, or even putting on the green.

So to answer your question; I'd probably say it doesn't matter. My only advice would be finding a ball you trust, and sticking with it.

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@1badbadger the chart you provided is very interesting. Based on this info both E6 and Supersoft have more wedge spin and less driver spin than NXT Tour. Ostensibly as a high HC player I should be taking advantage of this, however, having played all three of the aforementioned I prefer NXT Tour. My distant second choice would be E6. I played one (1) sleeve of Supersoft only because everyone loves them so much, but I did not care for them. Too soft, very strange..

Velocity is a ball I also experimented with. This is not a good ball. It is very unforgiving of mistakes with a putter and has a lot of energy coming off a wedge. That thing does not stop. I didn't think it was appreciably longer off the tee either. I wanted to like it because they are cheap but I gave up after one (1) sleeve. The chart data on Velocity agrees with my experience.

I would love to see how Volvik Vivid (or Crystal) compares on this chart. It is a little bit clickier & marginally softer than the NXT Tour, but has a decent greenside feel, and I think a little bit longer off of the tee. The wedges will back up and the short irons release less than a foot. I feel like for someone of my skill level this is a very good ball. I would like to see some comparative data from Volvik.

With the snow outside I'm saving money on tokens and green fees, so I'm currently shopping a couple of boxes of balls for the coming season. 

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4 hours ago, Kalnoky said:

@1badbadger the chart you provided is very interesting. Based on this info both E6 and Supersoft have more wedge spin and less driver spin than NXT Tour. Ostensibly as a high HC player I should be taking advantage of this, however, having played all three of the aforementioned I prefer NXT Tour. My distant second choice would be E6. I played one (1) sleeve of Supersoft only because everyone loves them so much, but I did not care for them. Too soft, very strange..

Velocity is a ball I also experimented with. This is not a good ball. It is very unforgiving of mistakes with a putter and has a lot of energy coming off a wedge. That thing does not stop. I didn't think it was appreciably longer off the tee either. I wanted to like it because they are cheap but I gave up after one (1) sleeve. The chart data on Velocity agrees with my experience.

I would love to see how Volvik Vivid (or Crystal) compares on this chart. It is a little bit clickier & marginally softer than the NXT Tour, but has a decent greenside feel, and I think a little bit longer off of the tee. The wedges will back up and the short irons release less than a foot. I feel like for someone of my skill level this is a very good ball. I would like to see some comparative data from Volvik.

With the snow outside I'm saving money on tokens and green fees, so I'm currently shopping a couple of boxes of balls for the coming season. 

Just a couple of quick clarifications....

I think I know what you meant regarding the Volvik being a good ball for a certain skill level, but so there is no confusion, a more accurate way to say it would be it's a good ball for players who have similar launch conditions as you.  It's not unusual to have 2 players who are the same handicap, have been playing the same number of years and are for all practical purposes the same skill level, but they could have completely different launch numbers.  They could even have the same clubhead speed, but if one launches the ball low with a lot of backspin and sidespin, and the other launches it high with low backspin and very little sidespin, the ball that works best for one of them probably wouldn't be the best choice for the other player.

Another important aspect you mentioned is "feel".  Obviously this is a very subjective term that means different things to different people:

Definition of Feel.PNG

Sometimes the ball that fits a player's game the best and produces the most efficient trajectory doesn't feel good to him (and the ball that feels the best might not be a good fit). Moving to the next-best performing ball if it feels better is a consideration.

Remember, the spin chart is not an absolute indication of how these models will stack up for everyone.  Robotic testing offers a starting point and gives us a good idea of the big picture, but when real players are involved their tendencies (like the low launch/high spin guy and the high launch/low spin guy it will change the way the chart looks a little bit.  Or maybe a lot!
 

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14 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

Sometimes the ball that fits a player's game the best and produces the most efficient trajectory doesn't feel good to him (and the ball that feels the best might not be a good fit). Moving to the next-best performing ball if it feels better is a consideration.

But if that player used the better performing ball for his swing for a while it might start to feel like the new good to them.

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33 minutes ago, natureboy said:

But if that player used the better performing ball for his swing for a while it might start to feel like the new good to them.

Yes it can.  It's amazing how a string of good shots can make an ugly club look pretty, or a ball feel good!

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16 hours ago, 1badbadger said:

 It's not unusual to have 2 players who are the same handicap, have been playing the same number of years and are for all practical purposes the same skill level, but they could have completely different launch numbers.  

This is 100% true. I have to remember not to project my golf experiences on others.

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As a relative beginner and high handicapper at 18, I can say the type of ball makes a big difference in my game. Hitting the wrong type of ball has proven disastrous for me. 

I have pretty good athletic ability which translates to a fairly high swing speed measured at 115mph. I also generate higher than optimal side and backspin. For me hitting a softer or high spin ball is difficult for me to keep in play. 

The Titliset velocity, Topflite D2, work well for me. The Nike One RZN Black is my favorite ball with the Bridgestone 330 being a very close second. I've tried the Pro-V and can not hit it too much action for a hacker like me. 

 

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if you don't have the high rate swing speed you won't be able to compress a ball like ProV1 cause where it's such a real soft ball. a high HCP will want to play a harder ball like a NXT ball or anything lower then that. cause the swing speed that have is so slow and the ball is made for distance. they will be able to compress a ball. well if they even know how to. but softer ball for slow swing speed won't fly far

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If you cant hit 7 of 10 of the balls you hit on the range within a 20-30 foot circle of where you're aiming, i dont think the ball matters to you quite yet. If you're not that player, just go with anything you find if its in decent shape. As ball striking becomes more predictable, then i believe thats when players should be looking at a specific ball. 

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59 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

If you cant hit 7 of 10 of the balls you hit on the range within a 20-30 foot circle of where you're aiming, i dont think the ball matters to you quite yet. 

I can probably make 7/10 within 20-30' with every club from LW through an 8-iron. For the longer irons & hybirds, maybe 5/10 on an average day. However, I knew from that first summer I played I could not hit the ProV1. It felt like striking a rock. That was very humbling. The Bridgestone e6 probably kept me from quitting golf in that first year.

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Hi there, I don't believe for the level you are currently at a high tour level ball will make a large enough impact to justify the price. With the level you are at I would focus more on balls that will help give you more distance, with you having a slower club head speed you don't have to worry to much about spin as you wont be able to create enough with your club head speed to effect the balls flight as much as much as someone with a very fast swing could. I would find a medium priced ball that has a harder core that will help you hit it further here is some great examples http://www.grumpygopher.com/10-best-golf-balls-distance/

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On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 3:31 PM, Kalnoky said:

Well, I will probably get flamed, but I really like Titleist NXT Tour (not Tour S). It has a nice "weight" (best way I can describe it) on the putter face, and with chip shots. On the short irons it only releases a couple of feet from the pitch mark. You can see it spinning pretty hard on those little draws into the green, very rewarding. I'm pretty sure I've backed it up a couple of times too. I tried several kinds of balls, most brands. I also liked the old Maxfli Noodle, but I don't think it's made anymore.

 

That's interesting. I played a box of those and remember thinking they felt somewhat rock-like. But, I tend to like balls that many consider rocks. Hmm. Good ball, though. I played fine with it (relatively).

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