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CarlSpackler

Trump Stiffs Hole in 1 Winner

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Should He Pay Up?  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Donald Pay Up?

    • Open the checkbook.
      18
    • No way, Jose.
      8


92 posts / 5228 viewsLast Reply

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Quote

In August of 2010, Martin Greenberg, CEO of Sterling Commodities Corp., hit a hole-in-one on the 13th hole at Trump National Golf Club in Westchester County, N.Y., winning a $1 million prize. Or so he thought.

The contest's rules stipulated that the shot had to travel at least 150 yards, and according to The Post, tournament organizers had set up the tee short of the mark.

Greenberg sued, and when the parties settled, the Trump Foundation donated $158,000 to the Martin Greenberg Foundation, which Rosemary Fei, an expert in nonprofit law, says is illegal

Read the full story here:

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/donald-trump-stiffed-winner-1m-hole-one-contest-report-says

Edited by CarlSpackler
Added quote

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For a man worth 10 BILLION DOLLARS, it should be a no-brainer to pay up.   If the article is accurate then it's a complete sham to have the stipulation that it's 150 yards and then have the hole set up less than that.  

Something similar happened a couple of years ago in a local tourney and I was playing with the sponsor.   They set the Hole-in-One hole up at a certain distance and he wanted it further back because there were different tiers for the hole-in-one insurance based on distance.   He wanted it back so he got charged less.

My guess is that Trump's tourney didn't have hole-in-one insurance then?  hole-in-one insurance is a small fee compared to the prize that the insurance company will pay out.

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I generally dislike this kind of third-hand reporting.  Golf has taken a Washington Post article and apparently reworked the bit of it that deals with golf into this little blurb.  The Post article primarily discussed Trump's (alleged) use of foundation funds to pay for personal "debts".  There are a ton of details missing from the Golf piece, and I didn't read enough of the Post article to know if they were included in the original.

As @imsys0042 mentions, HOI prizes are almost always insured, and I'd bet that in this case insurance was bought and paid for.  Mr. Trump's history indicates that he rarely exposes his own money, prefers instead to always use someone else's money, as is common with most real estate developers.  I'd also bet that Mr. Trump had little or nothing to do with the charitable event, beyond perhaps making some of the arrangements to allow it to be held at his course.  My best guess is that the golf course maintenance crew made a mistake, the organizers didn't catch it, and the insurance company (properly) refused to pay.  If I was the one who got screwed, I'd certainly include Mr. Trump in my lawsuit, a CEO of a commodities firm would look pretty miserly if he sued the charity to get his money.

As to Mr. Trump using Trump Foundation money to pay off the suit, that's a separate legal matter.  Perhaps the Trump Foundation WAS the charity involved in the tournament, and was the defendant in the lawsuit, and the settlement was between the Foundation and Martin Greenberg.  There are simply not enough facts in the Golf article to make any kind of judgement.

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Nothing in this article attributes any of this to Trump himself. I doubt he knew about any of this, cursory knowledge at best. His lawyers and club directors likely handled all of this.

Inflammatory headline and also fails to mention that the winner of the prize wasn't some homeless dude off the street, but a rich CEO of a NY financial firm. 

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I'll take option C - and say this is a glimpse at why Trump isn't releasing his tax returns. Based on what they are generalizing in the article, Trump treats the foundation as if it was his donations, and if he treats it like that on his tax return then there could well be audit issues and issues of being disingenuous about how charitable he is (out of his own pocket)

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Here is another article that indicates that there was an insurance company involved. 

http://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2016/09/21/donald-trumps-golf-club-accused-rigging-hole-in-one-contest-pay-prize-98118/

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41 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

For a man worth 10 BILLION DOLLARS, it should be a no-brainer to pay up.  

For a man worth 10 BILLION DOLLARS, he has convinced poor folks to give him money, and that's even more amazing than a hole in one on a Par 5 uphill into a strong wind while drunk.

Edited by Kalnoky

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The bigger deal here isn't the attempt to stiff the golfer. It's the use of his Foundation's money to settle a personal dispute.

Not that I don't believe HC is guilty of the same thing.

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Donald Trump and one of his golf clubs in New York were accused of rigging a hole-in-one contest so that they wouldn't have to pay out an advertised $1 million prize for an ace.

I'm no fan of Mr. Trump, but this is just silly.  There was an insurance company that apparently got paid to insure the prize for an ace.  What possible motivation could Mr. Trump or his golf course have to set the yardage wrong?  They had nothing to gain, and had to be plenty embarrassed the way things turned out.  That lead paragraph is simply inflammatory nonsense.

Now, the course did screw up, apparently, although I'm pretty sure that Mr. Trump wasn't the one who set the pin that day.  The golf club legitimately should bear some of the responsibility.  If Mr. Trump did indeed pay off the debt of his golf club using the charitable donations of other people to his foundation, HE should be held accountable.  I'm sure we'll hear a lot more about this in the next few months.

6 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

I am not buying the Washington Post's attempt to politicize an insurance company not paying because of a possible yardage minimum. 

I just took a look at the Post article, and this was only one of several instances they claim to have found where Mr. Trump used the Foundation to pay debts owed by one of his businesses.  I didn't see any mention of the insurance company, although I just skimmed the article.  The Post definitely leans a bit to the left, although they also report on some of Mrs. Clinton's "issues" as well.  I'm just disappointed that Golf.com and thegolfnewsnet.com have jumped on the political bandwagon too.

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Just now, mcanadiens said:

The bigger deal here isn't the attempt to stiff the golfer. It's the use of his Foundation's money to settle a personal dispute.

Not that I don't believe HC is guilty of the same thing.

Funny that the stiffed golfer chose to settle on having his personal foundation benefit from Trumps. And it's not a personal dispute, he sued the Trump company, Alonzo's charity, and the insurance company! These guys have way too much time on their hands! 

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No one puts up money for hole in one competitions on their own.  I've run many golf outings and hole in 1 prizes are handled like insurance policies.  You find a company that offers hole in one insurance and like all insurance policies there are pages of stipulations to follow in order to qualify for the money.  

I highly doubt Trump offered the $1M on his own but rather purchased hole in one insurance and they, not Trump are responsible for the payout.  

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3 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I highly doubt Trump offered the $1M on his own but rather purchased hole in one insurance and they, not Trump are responsible for the payout.  

Take it a step further, I highly doubt Trump even knew about the tournament on one of his many courses, and even if he did, he is not in the weeds enough to even have set the details on how they were doing a hole-in-one contest. 

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2 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

No one puts up money for hole in one competitions on their own.  I've run many golf outings and hole in 1 prizes are handled like insurance policies.  You find a company that offers hole in one insurance and like all insurance policies there are pages of stipulations to follow in order to qualify for the money.  

I highly doubt Trump offered the $1M on his own but rather purchased hole in one insurance and they, not Trump are responsible for the payout.  

But in this case somebody screwed up and didn't put the tee markers back far enough to meet the insurance companies stipulations, so I'd say that they aren't responsible anymore.

There isn't really any correct answer here once the guy screwed up the tee markers.  Other than, if somebody with the net worth of a guy like Trump were directly involved with knowledge of the situation, he could acquire some goodwill by paying out of his own pocket.

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6 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

Take it a step further, I highly doubt Trump even knew about the tournament on one of his many courses, and even if he did, he is not in the weeds enough to even have set the details on how they were doing a hole-in-one contest. 

Of course not, next article will blame Trump for the toilets not being clean enough.  

5 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

But in this case somebody screwed up and didn't put the tee markers back far enough to meet the insurance companies stipulations, so I'd say that they aren't responsible anymore.

There isn't really any correct answer here once the guy screwed up the tee markers.  Other than, if somebody with the net worth of a guy like Trump were directly involved with knowledge of the situation, he could acquire some goodwill by paying out of his own pocket.

Like Hillary threw some of her personal money toward the families that died in Benghazi due to her lack of action?  

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I should ask the Superintendent at my home course.  He was the assistant Superintendent at Trump National in Westchester during this time I believe.  Would be interested to hear what he has to say or if he remembers.  Have heard a lot of stories about the course, for instance, when Trump comes to the course to play his security team makes sure there is nobody for at least 4 holes in front of and 4 holes behind him (before he was a Presidential Candidate).  He drives the cart wherever he wants on the course including right next to the green, etc.  I guess its his course and he can do what he wants.

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6 minutes ago, Grinde6 said:

I should ask the Superintendent at my home course.  He was the assistant Superintendent at Trump National in Westchester during this time I believe.  Would be interested to hear what he has to say or if he remembers.  Have heard a lot of stories about the course, for instance, when Trump comes to the course to play his security team makes sure there is nobody for at least 4 holes in front of and 4 holes behind him (before he was a Presidential Candidate).  He drives the cart wherever he wants on the course including right next to the green, etc.  I guess its his course and he can do what he wants.

This makes me want to buy a golf course more than ever!

It would be awesome to get the inside scoop. 

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30 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Like Hillary threw some of her personal money toward the families that died in Benghazi due to her lack of action?  

Well that escalated quickly.

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