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Long shots, genetics or technique ?


yanni
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I am 42 years old and started playing golf about 2 month ago. I am making progress and just learned how to take a divot after the golf ball which took quite a long time. Now  the rate of fat or thin shots have changed totally. This has improved my game a lot. Also with the driver am making progress. 

But what die not really change a lot compared to the beginning is the distance of my shots. I feel I am more flexible now and maybe have a bit more clubhead speed. I am hitting the driver about 180yards (average). So I am lightyears away from those younger players (and also players in my age) that just hit the ball around 250yards. I am wondering if this mainly genetics or technique they developed? I heard Oliver Heuler say (some of you might know him) that the type of people of can run very fast can also swing the golf club very fast (even if they normally dont play golf at all). This has to do with the ability of their muscles to contract very fast. 

If you look at your career. Were you gaining distance you more you practised or was this pretty much set from the beginning on ? Of course you can add distance through better technique, fitted driver etc. But can you actually change your swing speed fundamentally ?  

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Flexibility is the secret. If you are capable of making a full swing, even if it is a relaxed full swing, the club speed will be greater than a short swing. Of course, if your particularly strong this will make a difference. 

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5 hours ago, yanni said:

If you look at your career. Were you gaining distance you more you practised or was this pretty much set from the beginning on ? Of course you can add distance through better technique, fitted driver etc. But can you actually change your swing speed fundamentally ?  

It's both. Hitting the ball far comes from good technique and a natural ability to fire your muscles faster. That's why there are long and short (relative to their peers) players on the PGA Tour, where everybody has good technique.

My own experience reflects that. I've always been faster than average, but in the beginning I wasn't (and still aren't) getting the most out of my swing speed. As I got better I hit farther, but it has more to do with hitting the club on the sweetspot than actual gains in swing speed.

Bill

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6 hours ago, yanni said:

If you look at your career. Were you gaining distance you more you practised or was this pretty much set from the beginning on ? Of course you can add distance through better technique, fitted driver etc. But can you actually change your swing speed fundamentally ?  

Both. I think you can change your swing speed some with better mechanics. I think equipment might help some, but hitting the sweet spot and at the right angle of accent (driver) comes with practice and proper technique.

One way I look at this is, taking excessive roll or wind out of the equation, my longest drive is around 30 yds beyond my average (according to GameGolf). The way I look at it, I have the physical capability of averaging a longer drive but I fail to do so because of poor contact from poor swing mechanics.

I'm the last person who should give advice, but don't get too caught up in comparing your distances to what others say or post about how far they hit. Be patient and develop as good a swing as you possibly can. The distance will be what it is.

Jon

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Length has more to do with mechanics than it does the ability to contract muscles quickly.  I am 60 years old and a very slow swinger; but I'm knocking the ball past people half my age due to a combination of freakishly long arms and better technique.  I've always had the long arms...not so the better technique.

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I am currently teaching my son to play (he is 8) and he has been learning for a few months now.  One of the first things I had to teach him was that distance was pointless without accuracy.  Once he shifted his focus from hitting the ball hard to making good contact with the ball on line with the target he started seeing better ball flight.  Every time we play now he does better than the last.

When a new player focusses on distance and power they lose control of the club and sometimes miss the ball entirely.  When you are learning you should be focused on getting the swing plane right and online with your target while achieving good ball flight.  As you get more comfortable and familiar with your swing it will feel more natural and get faster without trying to swing harder.  Flexibility and timing have more to do with distance than strength.  

Also I would suggest if your driver is only going 180 yards to leave it at home.  With a slower swing speed a low lofted club is harder to get in the air.  You may find that your 3 wood or even 5 wood will give you more distance (certainly more carry) than your driver until you get more club head speed.

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8 hours ago, paininthenuts said:

Flexibility is the secret. If you are capable of making a full swing, even if it is a relaxed full swing, the club speed will be greater than a short swing. Of course, if your particularly strong this will make a difference. 

Working on your swing will lead to more contacts on center of clubface, which will lead to more distance.

Also, your individual body build may dictate certain swing adjustments to get the ball going where you want it. You'll pick up on this as you play more. A good teaching pro can help you on this.

And, flexibility and overall conditioning improve your chances of playing good golf. Good core strength (abdomen and lower back) will help you transfer power into your swing, and improve your balance.

@IndianaDundee has a solid idea: The 3W will help you off the tee until you increase your swingspeed. AND, you would use your 3W more and get confidence in hitting it for future.

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24 minutes ago, IndianaDundee said:

When a new player focusses on distance and power they lose control of the club and sometimes miss the ball entirely.  When you are learning you should be focused on getting the swing plane right and online with your target while achieving good ball flight.  As you get more comfortable and familiar with your swing it will feel more natural and get faster without trying to swing harder.  Flexibility and timing have more to do with distance than strength.  

Also I would suggest if your driver is only going 180 yards to leave it at home.  With a slower swing speed a low lofted club is harder to get in the air.  You may find that your 3 wood or even 5 wood will give you more distance (certainly more carry) than your driver until you get more club head speed.

I'm not sure that focus only on accuracy as a beginner is ideal for building your game long-term. Good swing fundamentals as a basic priority over wild swinging for power, sure. I've heard some coaches talk about 'speed sessions' where they practice maxing out swing speed. I think this does a few positive things partly physical and partly on technique:

  • works the smaller supporting muscles to build their strength / ability to contribute to the swing over time
  • helps ingrain correct sequencing at faster swing speeds
  • challenges making consistent good contact at faster swing speeds

When I first tried swinging a golf club I could get it out to maybe 200 yards carry. Now with a few years of practice - both technique and 'going at it', I can max out around 250-260 carry.

Maybe a softer ball would be a better move than leaving driver at home? I think fairway woods tend to be harder to hit. The large and forgiving 460cc driver can be an asset off the tee if he gets enough spin to keep it in the air. A high lofted driver might be a good idea, though.

The comment about running fast and swinging fast to me is about overall leg strength (power from muscle mass). If you have strong hips/glutes it gives you a stable base to help accelerate the hips and against which to turn the upper body. The research on fast twitch muscle is that people who train a lot for endurance tend to have the most slow-twitch in cross-sectional area. Couch potatoes, surprisingly, have the most of the fastest-twitch fibers. So I'd lean toward training improving your sequence / timing coordination over time probably ouotweighs physique improvement.

Kevin

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1 hour ago, natureboy said:

I'm not sure that focus only on accuracy as a beginner is ideal for building your game long-term. Good swing fundamentals as a basic priority over wild swinging for power, sure. I've heard some coaches talk about 'speed sessions' where they practice maxing out swing speed. I think this does a few positive things partly physical and partly on technique:

  • works the smaller supporting muscles to build their strength / ability to contribute to the swing over time
  • helps ingrain correct sequencing at faster swing speeds
  • challenges making consistent good contact at faster swing speeds

Maybe a softer ball would be a better move than leaving driver at home? I think fairway woods tend to be harder to hit. The large and forgiving 460cc driver can be an asset off the tee if he gets enough spin to keep it in the air. A high lofted driver might be a good idea, though.

You are right about accuracy being the wrong focus.  I point to making good ball contact as the best focus for a beginner.  But speed sessions would be a more advanced training than would be helpful for a beginner.  I believe in the "swing slow to make sure you hit it" school of thought rather than the "swing hard in case you hit it" thought that is common now.

Yes a softer ball helps a slow swing go farther, but many players struggle with a big 460 head.  Sure that big face can be forgiving on off center hits but a low loft and slow swing speed guarantee bad drives.  All other factors like shaft flex, kick point, angle of attack, spin, ball compression, etc... being the same, higher loft with low swing speed will give longer drives to a point.  I have seen junior drivers with a 25 degree loft (about a 9 wood in my bag, also my 180 yard club) but most drivers are 8-12 degree.  A 3 wood with 15 degree loft and a shorter shaft is easier to hit the center of the face giving a straighter and longer drive.  With under 70 mph swing speed even a 7 wood will give more carry and total distance (given soft course conditions) than a 10 degree driver, and with shorter shaft should also be easier to hit consistent.

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For me it is a combination of both.  Fast twitch reflexes, swing that fits your body's strengths, good technique to hit the ball the ideal way the club is designed, which can vary with clubs

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5 hours ago, IndianaDundee said:

You are right about accuracy being the wrong focus.  I point to making good ball contact as the best focus for a beginner.  But speed sessions would be a more advanced training than would be helpful for a beginner.  I believe in the "swing slow to make sure you hit it" school of thought rather than the "swing hard in case you hit it" thought that is common now.

I'm thinking more of a happy medium. Remember that Palmer was taught to "Hit it hard, boy. Find it, and hit it hard again!". Nicklaus also emphasized learning to hit for length early knowing accuracy could be improved later. If you constantly mis-hit it you will hit it less far than you could and tend to curve it more. Hitting it as long as you can (under control) is also practice for making good ball contact.

Building up to an 80-90% effort swing over the first year or two makes sense, but if you put it off too long until contact is perfect at the slower swing speed improvement will plateau, right? Then you will have to adjust your 'perfect impact' timing to the new swing speed and possibly mechanics.

5 hours ago, IndianaDundee said:

Yes a softer ball helps a slow swing go farther, but many players struggle with a big 460 head.

I know it's individual, but I'd be surprised if most newer players would hit a 3 or 5 wood better than the 460cc. Choking down several inches when using the driver is definitely a good idea for a newer player.

 

 

Kevin

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I've always been at best average at speed events like sprinting.  But when I hit the driver well it goes 250 to 260 yards.  I gained maybe 30 to 40 yards this year and I'll turn 59 this December.  I'm 5'11", 150 lbs.  I've had leukemia, high dosage chemo and a bone marrow transplant, 5 years ago.  I'm definately not an example of great health.

Most 42 year old men should be able to hit it further than 180 yards.

Yes, technic and just as important... swing fast

You should post a swing video in the member swing section of this forum to get tips from some experts around here.

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Ok. I think I made big progress now. I practised swinging with speed yesterday (without hitting the ball) and measuring club head speed. What I noticed is that rotating my hips and body faster did nothing for speed. But keeping my wrists and arms loose and do everything from there gave at least 10 mph more speed. Also I worked on my timing. I measured 80 with my 7 iron, and around 85 with my 5. Could not measure my driver at home though.

Today at the range I hit the ball around 200-220 yards with my seven iron which is pretty insane compared to how far hit it before. I was doing this on hard practise mats though. So on the fairway this might be less. Also I used a lot of lag. So my 7 iron probably behaved more like 6 or even 5 iron.

Ok. Now for the driver. I did some corrections to my hand position and stance. No slice anymore which of course makes the ball flight straighter and longer. I hit is pretty consistently 220 yards. Which is pretty interesting since this is NOT a lot of longer than I hit my 7 iron. I also tried my Hybrid (its like a 4 iron) but did only gain about 10m of distance and more much inconsistent shots.

Now I took your advice and tried a 3 wood. Wow you were right. I hit the ball 240 yards. 

Whats is all means to me that I could probably hit the driver 250 yards or more but at the moment I still have a swing problem with this. I should mention that I use a very cheap driver from a complete Wilson set (whole set around $300). Maybe my timing with arms and wirst are just wrong with the driver.  Could also be the driver itself. But I doubt it since I hit the 3 wood from the same Wilson set much longer it seems.

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2 hours ago, yanni said:

Ok. I think I made big progress now. I practised swinging with speed yesterday (without hitting the ball) and measuring club head speed. What I noticed is that rotating my hips and body faster did nothing for speed. But keeping my wrists and arms loose and do everything from there gave at least 10 mph more speed. Also I worked on my timing. I measured 80 with my 7 iron, and around 85 with my 5. Could not measure my driver at home though.

Today at the range I hit the ball around 200-220 yards with my seven iron which is pretty insane compared to how far hit it before. I was doing this on hard practise mats though. So on the fairway this might be less. Also I used a lot of lag. So my 7 iron probably behaved more like 6 or even 5 iron.

Ok. Now for the driver. I did some corrections to my hand position and stance. No slice anymore which of course makes the ball flight straighter and longer. I hit is pretty consistently 220 yards. Which is pretty interesting since this is NOT a lot of longer than I hit my 7 iron. I also tried my Hybrid (its like a 4 iron) but did only gain about 10m of distance and more much inconsistent shots.

Now I took your advice and tried a 3 wood. Wow you were right. I hit the ball 240 yards. 

Whats is all means to me that I could probably hit the driver 250 yards or more but at the moment I still have a swing problem with this. I should mention that I use a very cheap driver from a complete Wilson set (whole set around $300). Maybe my timing with arms and wirst are just wrong with the driver.  Could also be the driver itself. But I doubt it since I hit the 3 wood from the same Wilson set much longer it seems.

Few thoughts on your driver:

1. Sometimes clubs (particularly driver) will go "dead."  Crack in the face, dent in the crown or sole, both take tension off the face leaving a dead feel even with a perfectly struck ball. Also a crack or loose shaft can cause a loss of distance.

2.  What are the specs of your driver?  Loft, shaft flex, kick point, and weight can all effect performance.  Also when you hit a good shot with your driver, what is the ball flight like?  Low and hot with lots of roll generally means too low of loft, but high and no roll generally is a swing flaw.

3.  Many players are going to a shorter shaft in their driver for more control, at a loss of distance.  How long is your driver shaft? Is it longer or shorter than your 3 wood?

Also curious about how you measured your swing speed at home?

Is 220 yards with your 7 iron a typo?  While not unheard of it is not common for anyone other than pros to hit a 7 iron over 200 yards.

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I measured swing speed with my speed swing radar. My driver is default length with 10.5 Loft. I am myself confused by the iron length. As I said this was from a hard practise matt. Just subtract 20 yards maybe. Its not about total length. More about relations.

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To OP, your primary focus of all should be to learn to swing on plane first. Speed will come. It will come in boatloads.

Consider the analogy of a car speeding in a NASCAR track. You can throttle the car when in the straight section of the track and get max speed but you have to slow down in the turn section, no matter how powerful the engine.

Swinging 'on plane' with a proper sequence is like driving the car the straight section - you can maximize leverage and inertia for speed. Leveraging a club for speed until then is like trying to speed up at the turn - you will just go off track or will have to slow down to keep control.

Of course swinging on plane is easier said then done. It is as closest to the 'holy grail' of golf you can get. Everybody, even experience players, are always chasing it. But swing even somewhat on plane will do wonders. Impact will dramatically improve too. You are new to the game. It is an exciting time with all kinds of new discoveries of what you can do with a golf club.

THIS is the best time to get a camera and work with a good professional - do it NOW!!  :-)

 

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Vishal S.

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Well, I am no ways near the hitter that I once was In my thirties, I could drive 280 regularly, now I struggle to hit past 200. My swing has changed drastically. In my younger days, I was very upright with the flying right elbow.  Somewhere along the line, I changed into a more rotational swing with elbow close to the torso. I am satisfied with my driver and fairway woods now from the standpoint that I have accepted my physical limitations. Could I regain some of the length? Probably, with instruction.  My biggest concern is my iron play, they just don't seem to go anywhere and I rarely take a divot.  I have probably lost 3 club lengths. On the positive side, short side pitches and chips are pretty good with a variety of techniques given the situation. :Putting...meh...good lagging, need to work on line.

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