Tricked Up Pin Positions - How Many is Too Many?

[Hazsa]

The course where I'm a member has some fantastic multi-tiered greens, which can really change the dynamic of a hole. That being said, I can't ever remember leaving the course thinking they had been unfair or OTT.

I did play at another course with a mate back in July during a prolonged period of hot and dry weather. It was situated in a steep valley; the front 9 basically descended to the bottom while the back 9 worked back uphill. Almost every hole going out had a severe down hill approach shot to the green, a lot of which had pins cut at the front. I just couldn't hold the green, let alone stop it anywhere near the hole. Pitching it 20/30 yards short of the green wasn't enough.

 

[No Mulligans]

I guess that depends on the definition of "Tricked Up".

To me "tricked up" means unfair.  For example, I ran across a hole placement where the ball wouldn't stop within 9 feet of the hole.  I four putted from 9 feet, which is pretty bad considering each putt was from the same spot.  But not so bad considering my last putt was in from 9 feet.  Putt up the hill and if you miss it comes right back down to the same spot.  I just think they had a rookie placing the pins that day.

One "tricked up" hole placement is too many in my opinion.

[Buckeyebowman]

One time I went to a local public course (Donald Ross design, no goat track), during the middle of the week. The pins were cut in some pretty bizarre places. I knew the greenkeeper and ran into him after my round. I asked him about the pin placements, and he told me they do that during the week to save the middle of the greens for weekend play, which is always heavy!

And lately, after nearly every course around here has aerated their greens, we've seen pin positions that we considered very marginal! These things were set on top of little knobs and humps which would defy pros to putt them! Plus, the greens were lightning fast, so we were facing "shepherd's crook" putts the whole round.

Still, we were playing golf in nice weather in mid to late October in NE Ohio, so how much could we complain?!

[Pretzel]

I think it depends on the time of the week. 

On the weekends you should never have any "tricked up" pin positions. The goal on the weekends is to make pace of play as fast as possible, since that's when the majority of golfers come out to play. To that end you should be placing the pins on the flattest, widest spots of the green to minimize time golfers spend putting on the weekends. It's the same reason that maintenance crews will put the tees about as far forwards as they can go on the weekends, as long as there isn't a tournament going on that day.

On the weekdays you can be more creative and set up the golf course to be more challenging. That being said, you shouldn't go too overboard since it's not the Sunday of the Masters, so I'd say maybe 2 "tricked up" pin positions per side would be the maximum. Regardless of whether they're "tricked up" or not, they should still follow a couple basic rules of thumb:

• The hole should be no closer to the edge of the green than the height of one flagstick
• A ball should always be able to come to rest next to the hole when rolled from a distance
• The hole should generally be at least a few feet from any ridge, to allow good putts to still remain near the hole rather than penalizing someone who putted the ball a foot or two long. 

As long as those big three conditions are met, I say put the pin in a couple "tricked up" positions per side to keep things interesting without making the whole course a grind to try and score.

[DrvFrShow]

10 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

In my mind, if you can leave a putt within a couple feet from most directions, its a pretty fair pin position.  

I agree. It's just that we're told to putt a foot or two past the hole otherwise you don't give yourself a chance of making it. But with some pin placements, if you're going to miss, it's best to be a foot or two short.

Then there was Chambers Bay ...... you missed and left it a foot short and it rolled all the way back down. Yeah, that was a little much.

[RH31]

My home course does this all the time. They cut pins just past false fronts. You have to play your approach or pitch/chip past the flag, then if you putt it 1.5 - 2 feet past your ball ends up back in the fairway....not fun. The justify this saying since its a shorter course, pin placement protects par.

[Papa Steve 55]

We though the GK was busting our you know what's lately with his pins, One almost in the middle of a ridge on a two tier green. Then we realized he had a nongolfer kid setting them. He knew how to cut them but his only direction on where was "not near where they are now".

[Vinny Cap]

I like it to be mixed up.  Not too many hard ones or easy ones.  A good balance of hard, easy and medium pins make for a fun round.  This is for the average weekend round.

Now if you are in a club tourney or something similar, make them progressively harder as the rounds go by.  Kind of like how the Pros do it.  Thursday the easiest, Sunday the hardest.

[Mop Bucket]

I was in charge of cutting cups for a few years before I started working indoors most shifts. The rule of thumb that I went by was this: 

-1 out of 3 holes should give you a good birdie look (should 2-putt from most lies)

-1 out of 3 should be a standard placement (a good lag putt should be rewarded)

-1 of out 3 should be a slight challenge to keep a par (if you leave a shot stranded, 3-putt is almost certain)

But if it was a busy weekend... most of the holes would be placed near the center to keep play moving until Monday morning rolled around, then I could go back to my usual system.

 

The only time I've seen a course set-up with 14 sucker pins is during a 4 or 5 man scramble. Touring pros don't even play locations that tough unless we're talking day 4 of the masters.

[DeadMan]

All I really care about is not having pins in places where you absolutely cannot stop a putt close to the hole. Also, if you put a pin somewhere where you absolutely cannot leave it above the hole, then make sure players know that with their approach shot. I'm not a huge fan of hitting a nice shot only to find out that I'm going to 3 putt because I had no way of knowing I needed to be short or long of the pin.

Anything else doesn't really bother me. We all should be aiming at the center of the green, so tucked pin placements shouldn't really register with us. Aim at the center of the green, 2 putt, and get out of there.

[caniac6]

We had a pin on a par 3 that was on a ridge that runs through the middle of the green. My tee shot was about 8ft below the hole, I putted about 18 inches past the hole, the ball stopped for a second, and rolled back into the hole. If it hadn't hit the hole, I probably would have had a longer putt than my first one. When I got back in, I told the pro not to be suprised if he got a few comments about the hole location on #6. 

      One of my jobs as an assistant superintendent was cutting the holes. I tried to find 6 easy, 6 medium, and 6 hard locations. The hard locations might be behind a bunker, near an edge, or on top of a different level. I never put one on a slope. I always thought that if you took on a tough hole location, and pulled off the shot, you should be rewarded with a reasonable birdie attempt.