Lesson Frequency

[iacas]

Personal trainers often schedule their clients to come in and work out with them for a low per-workout cost, but commit the student to thrice-weekly, monthly packages that might include three workouts per week for three or six months. This works really well for many people because, left to their own devices, they'd skip out on their scheduled workouts, but because they'd be "disappointing" their trainer (and many will pre-pay), they go to the gym and do their workouts.

There are golf pros who do this same thing: they charge less, but commit people to a block of regularly scheduled lessons. Let's say that Instructor A schedules golfers for a weekly 45-minute lesson that costs $45. That's $180/month for three hours of instruction. If you're serious about golf, $180/month isn't too bad.

Instructor B charges $120/hour… and will see you as often as you want to come in, but strongly urges you to go work on the instruction he's given you and come back in a few months when you've had the chance to work on it.

It doesn't take high-level math to figure out Instructor A is both more (per month) and less (hourly) expensive than Instructor B. But which plan is right for you?

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There's no one right answer, but most people should opt for Instructor B.

You see, unless golfers are working on something simple in, they can't make changes in a week. Often I'll sell a series (four lessons, I just ask that they use them within about a year or so) of lessons to a student and after the first lesson we'll have this exchange:

Student: Wow that was great! Same time next week?

Me: Well, let me ask you this. If you came back in an hour, would these changes be ingrained or would you get the same lesson?

Student: Uhh, the same lesson, of course.

Me: And in a day?

Student: The same lesson, yeah. I'm not gonna be able to practice between now and tomorrow at this time.

Me: And in two days?

Student: Okay, I get your point.

Me: Right. I don't want to waste your time or money working on the same thing. How about this: practice for a few weeks, and come to see me if one of two things happens: you start to struggle and need a reminder or a tune-up or another feel that you can use to keep working on this piece, or you feel you've got it and can replicate it well at full speed without giving it too much thought.

I'll talk with them about not "searching" for some other answer, and note that if I see them they should feel free to ask me for a five-minute mini-refresher or to watch them hit a few balls (happy to do it), and to stick with their "priority piece."

Change takes time. Golf isn't math: you can't "learn" something and then just be able to do it. There's no "light bulb" moment, really, in golf… not in terms of making your body actually change an ingrained habit or pattern.

Most students are better off taking lessons spread out three, four, even six, eight weeks.

For those who want to do something a bit more frequent… I offer "supervised practice" at a lower cost to students, often in small groups, and I think that's a good way to have check-ups. Other students see me in person every few months and mix online lessons for $39/month in there. We also offered "Lesson Blocks" at Chautauqua last summer: two students at once for just over half the cost of a single lesson. A bit more than supervised practice, and a bit less than a full-blown lesson.

Long story short: beware of the weekly lesson. You're not getting the full value, even at a lower cost, and you might actually be getting worse instruction if the instructor truly tries to teach you something new each and every week.

Oh, and by way of a postscript… I will let you in on a secret. I have had series students come back as quickly as a few days later… to work on their putting or some other completely different area of their game.

[CarlSpackler]

Brilliant! I love the idea of a monthly or bimonthly lesson and maybe a checkup or two in between just to make sure things are on track. 

[gregsandiego]

I'll pay devils advocate here.

For sake of argument, pretend for a minute money was no object. I'd probably take lessons a couple times a week.

My thinking is that the danger is reverting back to some ingrained and wrong swing. In fact that is the problem I have. Without someone watching me, it's extremely hard to know that I suddenly changed my swing back.

 

[dennyjones]

Two years ago, during the winter, I took weekly lessons from my golf instructor.    He had a great deal for 10 lessons and access to the indoor driving range for 10 times.    It was good at first but since I didn't get to practice as much as I'd like (winter) we repeated a couple lessons until I grasped the new technique.  It was nice to swing a club during the winter but without time to practice, weekly lessons weren't for me.  

[Mr. Desmond]

Agree as to Instructor B ... I buy a series and work for 4-6 weeks before taking another lesson.

[gregsandiego]

1 minute ago, Mr. Desmond said:

Agree as to Instructor B ... I buy a series and work for 4-6 weeks before taking another lesson.

If weekly is too frequent , 6 weeks is to seldom.

Did you guys ever take piano lessons as a kid? You wouldn't need 6 weeks to learn a new piece. What other kind of class instruction goes  weeks a part ?

[Mr. Desmond]

1 minute ago, gregsandiego said:

If weekly is too frequent , 6 weeks is to seldom.

Did you guys ever take piano lessons as a kid? You wouldn't need 6 weeks to learn a new piece. What other kind of class instruction goes  weeks a part ?

During the summer and early fall, it's 4 weeks. But it depends on what is or is not working.

It's golf. It's hard. Typically, your are also working on integrating the new pattern into your previous worked-on patterns. It's not as if you can work on golf on a daily basis. If someone can get to the range 3X per week, they are doing well. Some also work 10 minutes inside when they are not at the range. And then some of us actually like to play the course - the course exposes your weaknesses.

[dennyjones]

I did take piano lessons and was forced to practice 1 hour per day.    I hated it because I was forced to practice and didn't put in any effort to really learn.   I repeated the same classical music pieces many weeks until it was recognizable as music.   When I was older, I took weekly lessons from a different instructor and loved it.  

Each individual is different and the time they allow for practice and their dedication will determine the frequency of lessons.

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

I'll pay devils advocate here … pretend for a minute money was no object.

That's not really playing devil's advocate. Money is an object for many people, and it goes beyond that… most people, most instructors, will almost force "something new" in the lesson. I try not to do that. I've given people free 10-minute refresher lessons and reminded them to practice before coming back the next time when they came for a lesson and were doing the same thing(s).

14 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

If weekly is too frequent , 6 weeks is to seldom.

Did you guys ever take piano lessons as a kid? You wouldn't need 6 weeks to learn a new piece. What other kind of class instruction goes  weeks a part ?

Golf is also not piano lessons. It takes time to change things. I've been working on a similar thing in my swing for five years now. I check in with @david_wedzik from time to time, every four to six months, but that's about it.

I played piano and the trumpet as a kid. Learning a new piece of music is not the same thing as ridding yourself of a swing fault you've had for 15 years.

[gregsandiego]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Golf is also not piano lessons. It takes time to change things. I've been working on a similar thing in my swing for five years now. I check in with @david_wedzik from time to time, every four to six months, but that's about it.

I played piano and the trumpet as a kid. Learning a new piece of music is not the same thing as ridding yourself of a swing fault you've had for 15 years.

My question is, what happens if you spend 4 months practicing the wrong way?

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, gregsandiego said:

My question is, what happens if you spend 4 months practicing the wrong way?

First, four months would be an outlier, really. The only time that seems to happen is if a golfer is doing well and is in the heart of the season and wants to keep on the roll he's on.

Also, if you've taken a lesson from me that shouldn't happen. I provide you with pictures, notes, etc. I tell you to come check in with me now and then for a few minutes so I can see how you're doing. Etc.

[gregsandiego]

43 minutes ago, iacas said:

First, four months would be an outlier, really. The only time that seems to happen is if a golfer is doing well and is in the heart of the season and wants to keep on the roll he's on.

Also, if you've taken a lesson from me that shouldn't happen. I provide you with pictures, notes, etc. I tell you to come check in with me now and then for a few minutes so I can see how you're doing. Etc.

Sounds reasonable. Too bad you're in PA.

[alleztom]

Agree 100% about option 2. The progress I've seen (from 110s to one round in the 70s in about 2.5 years) has been based on a lesson every 2 or 3 months (I've probably had about 13 lessons). The progress is generally as such:

1- something to work on. Talk heaps in the lesson about many ways of doing it (for me it has been mainly centered hip turn on the back swing, then about how to coordinate the hip turn etc).

2- practice, play, implement etc. Progress tends to start strong then level off (unsurprising)

3- when I no longer understand why the bad shots are happening go back to the lesson. This hasn't involved repeating more than 25% of the previous lesson, i.e. each lesson is at least 75% 'new' stuff. 

This progress wouldn't work for weekly lessons. Wouldn't have enough time to make proper changes, would probably detract from the time I have to devote to playing, and I think would end up in the coach over-complicating things due to the activity bias of being involved in a lesson. Ie I'm here, better give me something to work on, even if I didn't need anything new.

 

[iacas]

Yes.

It simply takes time to ingrain changes. If you're confused or you start over-doing it, or you fall off the wagon and lose your place, absolutely, go back, even if it's two weeks later. I've had students do that. That's fine.

Generally speaking, though, the weekly lesson is a bit of a bogus thing, unless it's really not a lot of instruction, and you're just using it to "practice" with a trained eye helping you out and sometimes being a bit of a drill sergeant.

[jkelley9]

I do agree with the original statement. My one caveat is (and this may only apply to me, and a small group of people) is that when deciding to start taking up golf, it's probably a good idea to get lessons at a higher frequency at the VERY beginning.

When you've crossed a threshold of being able to hit the ball decently and understand some of the fundamentals of a "decent" golf swing (whether you hit it decently yourself or not) I think Instructor B holds true. You can get out to the range and even go play and focus on some swing thoughts from the lesson.

I think it would be really difficult for a complete beginner golfer to go the route of instructor B.

I did just what I'm saying above. Went with instructor A for a discounted rate and paid, yep, about $180 per month for weekly lessons @ about 45-min ea. He wasn't the best instructor in the world, but he started me getting into golf and learning some key fundamentals which I could then ingrain a little better without my swing going on a tangent between lessons.

Then I moved to instructor B which was MUCH BETTER, and has drastically improved my game. I have not seen my instructor in probably 6 months or more because I am still working on the things he taught me and I believe I still have a good handle of the scope of those lessons. However, I'm probably due to get another lesson from him to make sure there isn't some unknown area of my swing that has gone all cattywampus. 

[VeryShagadelic]

How does this apply to absolute beginners?

I took lessons on back to back days, first one was for posture and grip, second was for proper short game technique. 

My coach mentioned to come back for my 3rd lesson whenever to learn putting, and the 4th lesson will be on the full swing. He mentioned I should practice at least a few times on what we went over for grip and posture before coming back for the 4th lesson.

I'm assuming your advice on spacing out lessons is more geared toward seasoned golfers who are probably working on more advanced/specific mechanics rather than the basic fundamentals?

*note, i bought a 4 pack of 30 min lessons for $150 and have enjoyed the first few so far.

Thanks,

[Hardspoon]

I don't think it's the specific duration that's the problem, whether it is "weekly" or "monthly" or "daily".

The main issue is that proper instruction should be progress-based, rather than time-based. Regularly-scheduled lessons seem to ignore the fact that different things will take different lengths of time to learn. 

The only (potential) value could be for someone who "works best on a deadline", and feels like having that lesson scheduled motivates them to practice and work to get to the next piece.

[mchepp]

I picked bi-monthly but the reality of it is, it is much longer than that. I could see a high handicapper coming in more frequently because he may not know by watching his video if he is doing it right or overdoing it. But once you reach a stage where you know the bad habits to watch for and you know from a drill how it should look the work probably takes quite a long time.