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Building a repeatable swing


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On 10/30/2016 at 6:09 AM, BristolGolf said:

Am I not right in saying that I need one trainable, usable, repeatable swing? If so how in gods name do i get there! 

Sorry to hear about your issues with instruction. I'd recommend starting a Member Swing thread, we have some smart guys on this site that can guide you on where to start.

Golf is like other sports in that there isn't "one way" to do it. There are certainly commonalities that most great players share but there is also a lot of flexibility. Basically the best way to start hitting it better is to work on the piece that will help you the most, a priority piece, rather than learning a "swing" (believe me I've been down that road).

2 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

@DownAndOut if you found the key-or cue-to golf why are you still a 15 after golfing for 25 years?

Good point.

2 hours ago, Jameson said:

Golf is so technical and so tough to learn (and hence teach) that is really hard to find a great instructor. But... that doesn´t mean all of the golf instructors in the world are the same... no way

Learning the golf swing, what's truth and what's fiction, faults and fixes, causes and effects isn't really that hard, the "genius" part of it comes with the communication aspect. Great instructors are effective communicators. 

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Mike McLoughlin

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(edited)

Wow thanks for the replies all. I had yet another frustrating lesson yesterday, I was rushed off the tee because of another lesson waiting and the end quote was "your setup is 6 out of ten, we need your get your backswing to six out of ten and then worry about the rest later" - yes I did look stunned, and in response to my stunned look I got "you cant have it all right away" - the entire lesson was spent working on my backswing, where it was identified I had an over swing (news to me but he was right when I looked at the video).  Again - no structure, no plan and I still have no idea what to do to get from where I am now to being able to play a round of golf without losing 10 balls and shooting 120. 

My work ethic is strong, I am playing once or twice a week (full 18 hole rounds) and hitting the range at least three times a week - and I have done so since June, I have been custom fitted for clubs, I have invested in lessons, I consume online instruction and read every single day. I just want to hit a gosh darn golf ball :) 

The answer is that I know the theory and have the equipment to record myself, I am going to spend the winter working on my own to see if I can work things out. I will sort out a members swing thread. 

Edited by BristolGolf

In my bag: 
Irons: TaylorMade M2,  Woods: TaylorMade M2 5 Wood , Driver: TaylorMade Aero Burner mini driver  Hybrid: Some crappy Wilson 4H Putter: Some crappy Wilson HDX putter. 

You will notice that my set is heavy on the super game improvement kit, I am still awaiting the super game improvement that was promised. 

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5 minutes ago, BristolGolf said:

Wow thanks for the replies all. I had yet another frustrating lesson yesterday, I was rushed off the tee because of another lesson waiting and the end quote was "your setup is 6 out of ten, we need your get your backswing to six out of ten and then worry about the rest later" - yes I did look stunned, and in response to my stunned look I got "you cant have it all right away" - the entire lesson was spent working on my backswing, where it was identified I had an over swing (news to me but he was right when I looked at the video).  Again - no structure, no plan and I still have no idea what to do to get from where I am now to being able to play a round of golf without losing 10 balls and shooting 120. 

My work ethic is strong, I am playing once or twice a week (full 18 hole rounds) and hitting the range at least three times a week - and I have done so since June, I have been custom fitted for clubs, I have invested in lessons, I consume online instruction and read every single day. I just want to hit a gosh darn golf ball :) 

The answer is that I know the theory and have the equipment to record myself, I am going to spend the winter working on my own to see if I can work things out. I will sort out a members swing thread. 

If that is your priority according to this guy, then that is what you need to stay focused on until you have it licked for the most part. Don't get ahead of yourself. Work on one thing at a time, and don't get impatient. Feel free to ask questions too. 

We have a saying around here. Be a "Stupid Monkey". There is a thread on this, but to summarize... Instructor says. You do. No questions. It's a lot like the scene in the Karate Kid where Mr. Miyagi sets up a pact with Daniel to teach him martial arts. His job is to know the swing and how to fix it. Your job is follow the instructions and that is all. If I had a time machine, I would go back 20 years, find an instructor, and follow his/her word to the tee.

With that being said, you have to decide at some point if your instructor is qualified and make a decision to stay or go. For now, he is your instructor so do what he says. :-)

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- Shane

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Hello @BristolGolf. Do you know how to pitch? I am far from an expert, but I think this might help you a lot. Just practice making 40-50 yard pitch shots onto a practice green, hit ball first, and take a little divot, and turn your belt buckle to face the target. Pre-load weight forward and try to feel like your left arm is dominant (and right arm is dead), then make nice easy pitch shots. You'll be surprised once you "get it" you'll start pitching them on close to the pin. 

You can build this out into a nice full swing. At least it helped me.

Golf Instruction is more like physical therapy than fixing an automobile. Just keep trying to really understand what the instructor is saying. I sometimes figure out what they mean months later, and I have "aha" moments.

Don't use the driver until you can hit your irons well. Tee off with a hybrid. The golf swing is the same for all clubs. But the driver is struck past the low point. It will screw up your fun for now. Come back to it when you get some success.

From one beginner to another, I hope this helps you.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, BristolGolf said:

Wow thanks for the replies all. I had yet another frustrating lesson yesterday, I was rushed off the tee because of another lesson waiting and the end quote was "your setup is 6 out of ten, we need your get your backswing to six out of ten and then worry about the rest later" - yes I did look stunned, and in response to my stunned look I got "you cant have it all right away" - the entire lesson was spent working on my backswing, where it was identified I had an over swing (news to me but he was right when I looked at the video).  Again - no structure, no plan and I still have no idea what to do to get from where I am now to being able to play a round of golf without losing 10 balls and shooting 120. 

Honestly, and I'm only being strong about this because I want you to consider what @CarlSpackler said, it sounds like your instructor is one of the bad ones. If you reject what Shane said, I'd find a new instructor. Again, I recommend evolvr.com.

4 hours ago, BristolGolf said:

The answer is that I know the theory and have the equipment to record myself, I am going to spend the winter working on my own to see if I can work things out. I will sort out a members swing thread. 

I wouldn't do that.

Better to find someone who actually knows what to do and then be a "Stupid Monkey."


@DownAndOut, do you have anything to add here?

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15 hours ago, iacas said:

I wouldn't do that.

Better to find someone who actually knows what to do and then be a "Stupid Monkey."

I appreciate the feedback and had a read of the thread you posted, like many people here on this forum I am a software developer, taking on-board complex information and problem solving is my day job, so I have approached learning golf by absorbing huge amounts of information, this has been to the determent of my game, I can accept that. When I am stood over a ball the volume of information I am thinking about is having a huge impact on my swing. Each instructor I have spent time with has picked on a point and ran with it for a lesson, and I accept that I have many elements of my game that can be faulted so it is open season on picking up where I need to improve. Maybe I am thinking about this all wrong? Maybe I do need to be a stupid monkey, pick a pro and work with him and just do as I am told and stop reading every single tip and hint I see. 

Instructors have a hell of a job, not only do they have to teach but they have to keep the student motivated and show improvement, they are the front line of the sport really, new revenue into the industry depends upon people like me getting hooked and they are the guys doing their best to help us improve and to sell us the game of golf, I truly appreciate the complexity of the task that they have. 

I will take your advice and work with another pro, one I have spent some time with before, he was a bit abrupt and hands on, but I actually appreciated that as I sometimes do need a slap and a kick to make me do as I am told  :-)

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In my bag: 
Irons: TaylorMade M2,  Woods: TaylorMade M2 5 Wood , Driver: TaylorMade Aero Burner mini driver  Hybrid: Some crappy Wilson 4H Putter: Some crappy Wilson HDX putter. 

You will notice that my set is heavy on the super game improvement kit, I am still awaiting the super game improvement that was promised. 

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You may find the reading and learning alongside working with a Pro most beneficial, as you say instructors have a hell of a job, as such some are good and some arent, some refuse to move away from old school coaching with flaws and some go so far with new stuff its all alien. 

 

The best piece of advise I found with finding an instructor is to find one that makes the best of your swing, and not exclusively modelling you on another swing, or method etc. a bit like the 5SK instruction, so long as you hit the key points of each key it matters little how you got there kind of thing

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:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
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The "stupid monkey" part is the hardest part. 

Golf is the only sport where the ball isn't moving. Too much time to think. 

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4 minutes ago, Kalnoky said:

The "stupid monkey" part is the hardest part. 

Golf is the only sport where the ball isn't moving. Too much time to think. 

I thought that's why we swing harder and faster? take the brain by surprise and give it no time to think? :whistle:

:tmade: Driver: TM Superfast 2.0 - 9.5degree - Reg flex
:mizuno: 3 Wood: JPX800 - 16* Exhsar5 Stiff
:mizuno: 3 - PW: MP-67 Cut Muscle back - S300 stiff
:slazenger: Sand Wedge: 54degree, 12degree bounce
:slazenger: Lob Wedge: 60degree 10degree bounce
:ping: Putter: Karsten 1959 Anser 2 Toe weighted
:mizuno: Bag - Cart Style

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12 hours ago, BristolGolf said:

I appreciate the feedback and had a read of the thread you posted, like many people here on this forum I am a software developer, taking on-board complex information and problem solving is my day job, so I have approached learning golf by absorbing huge amounts of information, this has been to the determent of my game

I have a good friend, and a long-time golfer, who was once an analyst for one of our USA three-letter covert organizations.  He also reads everything he can about the golf swing.  He analyzes every swing he makes, determines exactly what he did wrong (or tries to) and institutes corrective measures on the following swing.  Of course, he does the same thing after the "corrected" swing, analyzing and correcting once again.  I doubt he's ever made three swings in a row with the same swing thought.  And he struggles, boy does he struggle.  But he has impressive amounts of information about the golf swing stored between his ears.

I'll echo many of the others, try to find a good instructor.  Then, do what he says, and only what he says.  Don't interpret, don't revise, do it the way he wants you to do it.  Success lies in making the right changes, even when the resulting shots aren't so great at first.  Fix one thing at a time, work on your priority.  If you can't find a good local instructor, posting videos of your swing on this forum can get you good instruction.  Consider using  evolvr.com (I don't have experience with this, but I've read lots of posts from members here who have made good progress that way).  

Dave

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On 10/31/2016 at 2:22 PM, iacas said:

Sorry that's been your experience.

You'll get no argument from me that golf instruction in this world is sorely lacking and, well, bad..

Please forgive me for intruding on a fascinating conversation. I'm in awe of the knowledge and experience all of you have. I know very little about golf in comparison, but have a couple of observations from outside your experience, perhaps. In my world, we call this "beginner mind." Sometimes it brings a fresh perspective.

I used to belong to the Professional Ski Instructors of America. I've taught hundreds of people how to ski. While obviously skiing isn't the same as golf--different clothes--but there is one basic similarity for which all physical activities have in common: There are fundamentals which must be learned--in order.

Learning golf is somehow thought to be different than hitting a tennis ball or skiing down a hill? Or pole vaulting? Each of these have some basic "rules." I studied tennis. Low to high is a fundamental, and if you play, you probably know what I mean without explanation. In skiing, you begin by learning a wedge. Pole vaulting, I assume, is learning how to run with a fifty-foot pole in front of you. What is the fundamental in golf?

A square club face? Aiming in front of the ball? A flat left wrist? (All things I've learned in the last six months, which I have never heard an instructor say on a range as being the most fundamental basic things. And to top that, there is no single method to teach these basics because the instructions all vary from instructor to instructor. It's like doctors not going to medical school? Makes no sense. Each golf pro teaches something different.

So when you continue this thread, stop for a moment and think about this:

Every golf instruction I've read so far in learning this game has been saying the same thing, in different ways, with a couple of things they leave out because they haven't gotten--cue Voice of Doom--GOTTEN THE WHOLE PICTURE. They think they have! But because there is no program from which they all teach, they haven't SEEN the whole picture.

I get one or two "tips" from everything I read, which provides another piece of the puzzle. A couple of days ago, it was "the long thumb," on my left hand, which allows me to hinge more, which was the key to making a better swing. A short thumb, which is sometimes taught but even more rarely emphasized, blocked my wrists from making a full compression. From the first time I took a lesson forty years ago, until three months ago when I took another in the many over the years, nobody has ever mentioned extending my left thumb. Seriously.

Amazing, and almost unimaginable, the PGA has no set program from which to teach. A PSIA-certified ski instructor can take anyone on a pair of skis, from someone who falls down if they move, to someone who is sitting back on their skis as they come through race-course gates, to be a better skier. There is a way to ski. Deviating from that way is possible, but slows you down, which is where the fun is.

In golf, hitting the ball down the fairway, hitting the green, putting it out, are where the fun is. Learning the fundamentals isn't a lot of fun, but getting better results is.

I played tournament tennis for twenty years. The technology in rackets made the game far easier than when I started with a wood racket and then Jimmy Connors old "steely." Modern golf equipment should have a lot more people shooting better scores, yet, where's the improvement? It's perhaps the only sport where major increases in equipment haven't translated to improved performance by the base. Could this be related to teaching?

The PGA should fix this problem, but probably can't, because tradition in golf is sacrosanct, and that's how things go bad, and usually end up disappearing. Change or die.

Just one man's opinion. I could be wrong.

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Wayne

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2 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

What is the fundamental in golf?

Check this out.

 

2 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

It's perhaps the only sport where major increases in equipment haven't translated to improved performance by the base. Could this be related to teaching?

Instruction has a role but I think the bigger factor is just the difficulty of golf itself. No matter what kind of club you have, hitting a small ball solid off the ground isn't an easy task. Also technology typically benefits the better players more than the average golfer or higher handicappers. If you fat or thin the shot, it doesn't matter whether you're using a game improvement club or a muscle back blade.

2 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

The PGA should fix this problem, but probably can't, because tradition in golf is sacrosanct, and that's how things go bad, and usually end up disappearing. Change or die.

They would first have to realize there is a problem ;-)

Admitting there is a problem with golf instruction would mean that the people in charge the last 30-40 years were wrong and that's looked down upon in this industry. Any critique of a top instructor is seen as "bashing" and disrespectful. So it's basically up to individuals and small groups to move things forward, often in resistance to the status quo (which I'm sure is true in a lot of industries).

On a positive note things are slowly getting better, you have more qualified instructors than ever before and at the end of the day an instructor that is passionate and really cares about helping his/her students is going to get educated and stay updated on what's correct.

I do agree with you though that there needs to be an agreement in the instruction industry on what the "truths" of the golf swing are.

Mike McLoughlin

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To add a bit to what @mvmac has said… (I'm going to try not to duplicate his post)…

9 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

I used to belong to the Professional Ski Instructors of America. I've taught hundreds of people how to ski. While obviously skiing isn't the same as golf--different clothes--but there is one basic similarity for which all physical activities have in common: There are fundamentals which must be learned--in order.

Let me stop you there… and say this.

I can go to about 50 different ski instructors (or snowboard instructors) and get the same lesson. There's generally one accepted way to get down a hill with boards of different sizes attached to your feet.

And, relative to golf, it's fairly simple.

9 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

What is the fundamental in golf?

Define "fundamental."

Because people in golf can't even agree on a single grip, a single way to stand to the ball, etc.

If you're asking me, I'd say the true fundamental is the ability to control the low point and hit the ball solidly… but getting to that point requires some things that come before it. You need a stance, and grip, for example.

9 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

Amazing, and almost unimaginable, the PGA has no set program from which to teach. A PSIA-certified ski instructor can take anyone on a pair of skis, from someone who falls down if they move, to someone who is sitting back on their skis as they come through race-course gates, to be a better skier. There is a way to ski. Deviating from that way is possible, but slows you down, which is where the fun is.

Like I said above, there's one way to ski, but there's not one way to swing a club. Nicklaus, Woods, Palmer, Mickelson, Singh, Furyk, Floyd… all swung the club very differently. They had five things in common - @mvmac linked to one of the threads here about that - but they did things uniquely beyond that.

Skiing… it's a relatively simple problem domain.

9 hours ago, Blackjack Don said:

I played tournament tennis for twenty years. The technology in rackets made the game far easier than when I started with a wood racket and then Jimmy Connors old "steely." Modern golf equipment should have a lot more people shooting better scores, yet, where's the improvement? It's perhaps the only sport where major increases in equipment haven't translated to improved performance by the base. Could this be related to teaching?

Like @mvmac said… game-improvement clubs can't help you hit the ball off the ground. You still have to hit the ball on the center of the sweet spot, and with a path and club face aligned properly.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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On 11/5/2016 at 10:01 AM, mvmac said:

They would first have to realize there is a problem ;-)

Admitting there is a problem with golf instruction would mean that the people in charge the last 30-40 years were wrong and that's looked down upon in this industry. Any critique of a top instructor is seen as "bashing" and disrespectful. So it's basically up to individuals and small groups to move things forward, often in resistance to the status quo (which I'm sure is true in a lot of industries).

 

It goes WAY beyond instruction. Not to go all political here, but if the leadership of golf hasn't been paying attention, they are facing a crisis down the road if they don't change. Perhaps not an existential problem, but certainly an end to the money pump.

Golf instruction has to change, but that's easy if golf itself changes. The demographics are saying golf has to become a people's game. Golf, as we all know, has been a country club game. It's fussy. It's "pure." I understand it very well, and I tend to make fun of it. Why does Caddyshack play constantly on the Golf Channel? It mocks the very people who own the game. Every golf official, from the PGA to the local club level president, is Judge Smales. That's the perception, if not the fact, and when it comes to us humans, perception is reality. Golf, itself, has to change.

The powers that be weren't wrong. They just are caught up in a wave of change that threatens them. Who can blame them? Change is tough. Admitting you have to change may be the first step, but it's a really big step! But they gotta change.

To get this back on topic and tie it together, since I've taken my "learning program" to heart since June, I've got a handle on what I'm trying to do. Yes, I believe the fundamental is "in the ground." It's the iron swing that contacts the ball first, with a square club face. Yes, it's grip and takeaway and loading and, well, you know the rest. But the downward stroke is the wedge position in skiing, the topspin of tennis--the basic fundamental. I think Bobby Clampett and the Five Keys are on the right track. I think anything that is based upon data is better than guessing. I think Ben Hogan was amazingly close, considering he didn't have science to back him up, yet. 

The yet is important because if Ben Hogan is spot on, and the data back him up, then logically there IS only ONE WAY TO SWING A GOLF CLUB. The only thing left is for everyone to agree on what it is, and base their teaching upon it! Like Vic Braden did for tennis. It's about the proper way to swing a tennis racket. Step-hit on the forehand, low to high. One way to turn a wedge into parallel, with a stem christie. Simple. Every addition is ego. And individual way to teach the same thing.

This, obviously, is only my opinion. I cannot give any testimony based on fact. Only observation. But, as was said above, GOLF IS HARD! We all know this. It's harder for most than a few, but, again, I had only two beginner skiers I could not get down the hill. Out of thousands. Two. So I submit that is a system that works. Not my system, but the one I was taught to teach. We just have to find it in golf.

Again, thanks for letting me rant. /rant

Don

Wayne

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I know this for fact: whenever I am hitting the ball well, my swing is a fluid athletic move. Whenever I am hitting the ball poorly, my swing is a series of mechanical steps made by an awkward robot. People keep saying "feel is not real" - and I believe this for beginners - but at some point the golf swing has to become automatic. That's how our brains are wired to play sports.

Edited by Kalnoky
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We could not agree more. It's about our auto-pilot. We function, to a greater and lesser degree, on auto-pilot all the time. When you drive to work and get there, when you realize you can't honestly say whether that last two traffic lights were red or green--that's auto-pilot. Most of the time our minds are elsewhere. This is the main reason I play the game now, to practice mindfully. That's for another thread perhaps.

We want to play like the pros. Everyone feels like by watching golf on TV, we can learn something that we can take out and use on the course. Yeah, right. As you said, you swing athletically. The difference between the kids in the park and Michael Jordan, or the twelfth man on the bench for the Sixers, is indefinable. The amount of work that I've put in over the summer, the dedication and plain hard work, probably isn't a tenth of what the last guy in qualifying school has put in. So it's not nearly as much about instruction as the whole golf gig.

Golf instruction is expensive, too. Building a repeatable swing takes a lot of swings. Repetition is huge. The whole "ten thousand times" thing. Now, being self-taught, am I making the right swings? We can certainly debate that. Would I be better off with a PGA pro teaching me? Oh, no doubt about that! Building a repeatable swing needs to be the right swing. But when nobody can agree on what that is, then SOMEBODY is going to be struggling with the wrong swings! Anybody? Does that sound logical, and familiar?

I cannot afford $65 an hour. I make $18 an hour. How can I justify to my wife that I'm working half a day a month to support my teacher? Golf has a shrinking base, and country clubs are seen in some places as valuable housing real estate. Costs are going to continue to go up, and so will the cost to Judge Smails and the doctor who feigns shock from his pager? Maybe that's okay with them. But somebody's going to drop off, too.

Can we agree a repeatable swing is expensive to attain?, esp if golf instruction is this bad?

Don

PS--My apologies if this seems like a high-jacking of the thread, but this is something that's important to me, and perhaps controversial to others. I'm treading as lightly as I can, because "thar be toes I could be stepping on." I mean no disrespect.

Wayne

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On 11/7/2016 at 11:06 AM, Blackjack Don said:

It goes WAY beyond instruction. Not to go all political here, but if the leadership of golf hasn't been paying attention, they are facing a crisis down the road if they don't change. Perhaps not an existential problem, but certainly an end to the money pump.

Golf instruction has always been bad. It's as good now as it has ever been… Things are improving, not getting worse.

On 11/7/2016 at 11:06 AM, Blackjack Don said:

Golf instruction has to change, but that's easy if golf itself changes. The demographics are saying golf has to become a people's game. Golf, as we all know, has been a country club game.

Sorry, we're gonna disagree on that one. I know plenty of regular guys who play golf. Or hockey. Or have any other hobby. Unless your hobby is "sleeping" it's gonna cost you money.

Furthermore, as said above, golf is moving in the right direction, and virtually always has been in this area.

On 11/7/2016 at 11:06 AM, Blackjack Don said:

That's the perception, if not the fact, and when it comes to us humans, perception is reality. Golf, itself, has to change.

No, that's your perception. I'm sure others share it, but not everyone, and maybe not even the majority.

More and more kids are getting involved with golf. They're learning very different perceptions than yours.

On 11/7/2016 at 11:06 AM, Blackjack Don said:

The yet is important because if Ben Hogan is spot on, and the data back him up, then logically there IS only ONE WAY TO SWING A GOLF CLUB.

There isn't. There are many.

On 11/7/2016 at 11:06 AM, Blackjack Don said:

Every addition is ego. And individual way to teach the same thing.

I couldn't disagree more when you're talking about golfers themselves.

Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods both swing very differently. They have commonalities (perhaps even five…), but they are unique, too.

On 11/7/2016 at 11:06 AM, Blackjack Don said:

…but, again, I had only two beginner skiers I could not get down the hill. Out of thousands. Two. So I submit that is a system that works. Not my system, but the one I was taught to teach. We just have to find it in golf.

"Getting down a hill" is hardly as difficult as hitting the variety of shots well enough to shoot whatever the equivalent of just "getting down a hill" is in skiing.

Golf is much harder than skiing, and has more variety in the skills required.

Former greats in their sports struggle with golf and will tell you it's the toughest game they have ever played.

On 11/7/2016 at 0:02 PM, Blackjack Don said:

Building a repeatable swing needs to be the right swing. But when nobody can agree on what that is, then SOMEBODY is going to be struggling with the wrong swings! Anybody? Does that sound logical, and familiar?

Everyone's swing is pretty "repeatable" from a medium distance.

Find a good instructor. They might disagree with the bad instructors on things, but the good instructors I know agree on a heckuva lot. They may have slightly different preferences for some smaller things, but they agree on far more than they disagree on. And they have the data to back it up.

On 11/7/2016 at 0:02 PM, Blackjack Don said:

I cannot afford $65 an hour. I make $18 an hour. How can I justify to my wife that I'm working half a day a month to support my teacher?

That's between you, your priorities, your wife, etc.

On 11/7/2016 at 0:02 PM, Blackjack Don said:

Can we agree a repeatable swing is expensive to attain?, esp if golf instruction is this bad?

A repeatable swing is free. As I've said, every golfer's swing is "repeatable." It's just that most golfers have BAD repeatable swings.

You can make it to the PGA Tour without a golf lesson. Other people spend thousands of dollars on instruction but, either because it's bad instruction or they don't practice properly at all (or they're just bouncing around looking for a silver bullet), they don't get better.

I make students better - if they don't give up on themselves and their "priority piece" with each lesson. Sometimes those are $40 supervised practices.

Also, evolvr.com is $39/month. That's hardly expensive.

On 11/7/2016 at 0:02 PM, Blackjack Don said:

PS--My apologies if this seems like a high-jacking of the thread, but this is something that's important to me, and perhaps controversial to others. I'm treading as lightly as I can, because "thar be toes I could be stepping on." I mean no disrespect.

You might mean no disrespect, but I'd be careful about what you say and how you say it, in the sense that I don't think you speak for as many people or as wide a swath of individuals as you seem to think you do.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Interesting! There's an AM radio sports talk guy I listen to who played golf a lot in his youth, and who's Brother became a PGA pro!

This guy was assigned to cover the Cleveland Browns charity golf outing at a local resort. At one of those outings he interviewed Mike Pruitt, Browns running back. The host asked him how his golf game was.

Turns out it wasn't too good, and Pruitt, a superior athlete, wasn't all that pleased about it! He complained to the show host that he had played every sport imaginable in grade school and high school and excelled at them all! Once he was recruited to college to play football he concentrated on that. But, when he got into the NFL, some of his buds introduced him to golf!

Pruitt said that golf frustrated him endlessly! Here's a superior athlete who can't hit a ball that is just sitting right in front of him!

Golf is a lot harder than many people give it credit for!

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Note: This thread is 2809 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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