8 Stupidest Rules (golf.com)

[iacas]

http://www.golf.com/instruction/8-stupidest-golf-rules

1. 18-2 (Ball at Rest Moved) is the first one. I'm voting no on this one, and my reasoning is easy to find, but boils down to this: if a player causes a ball to move, he should be penalized, and the rule is as forgiving as it has ever been.
2. No relief for sand filled divots. I've been clear on this one too: there's no definition that can be applied by all, so no, play it as it lies. This almost never happens, anyway. You can't legislate too much of what is ultimately just "luck." (Good or bad.) BTW it should say no relief for sand-filled divot holes.
3. Penalizing a player for hitting a flagstick on the ground. Uhm, just move the flagstick. We penalize players for intentionally deflecting their ball, and this is basically that. Plus, nobody hits the flagstick before their ball gets to the hole - it's always after, thus helping you keep the ball closer to the hole.
4. Dropping the ball. Of the rules, I might be most easily convinced to place in all situations. But still, dropping is fine, and occurs probably 99% of the time without any incident.
5. Stroke and Distance for Lost Balls. Sorry, no. You have no idea where your ball might be. It might be unplayable, wedged in a tree, 50 yards behind where you think it's lost, etc.
6. Sprinkler head in your putting line. You can make local rules to get around this, so I'm not even going to entertain this one. Plus, where do you draw the line? What if you're in a divot hole 30 yards off the green and there's a sprinkler head on your line - do you get to claim you're going to putt the ball and thus drop out of the divot hole to get away from the sprinkler head? What about 50 yards? 100?
7. Five minutes to search for a lost ball. Wow, I thought I'd be voting for none of the rules being stupid, but I'll go along with this one. Two minutes. Maybe three.
8. No moving a ball out of a footprint in a bunker. Stupid. And I don't mean the rule.

So I voted 1-2, even though the five minutes isn't really a "stupid" rule, just one that I'd be fine supporting.

What's your tally, and what's your take on the "8 Stupid Rules"?

[DaveP043]

I voted 1 or 2.  The one I wouldn't mind seeing changed is the sprinkler head near the green.  I'd have no problem changing to the suggested local rule, which says the Obstruction be on the intended line of play, must be within 2 clublengths of the green, and the ball must be within 2 clublengths of the obstruction.  I agree with @iacas that you can't extend this relief very far, and the two plus two clublengths seems reasonable to me. The 5- minute search I'm OK with, but if the time limit was decreased, that would be OK with me too.  I'm not sure either of these rules is "stupid", but I wouldn't argue with changing them.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I voted 1 or 2.  The one I wouldn't mind seeing changed is the sprinkler head near the green.  I'd have no problem changing to the suggested local rule, which says the Obstruction be on the intended line of play, must be within 2 clublengths of the green, and the ball must be within 2 clublengths of the obstruction.  I agree with @iacas that you can't extend this relief very far, and the two plus two clublengths seems reasonable to me. The 5- minute search I'm OK with, but if the time limit was decreased, that would be OK with me too.  I'm not sure either of these rules is "stupid", but I wouldn't argue with changing them.

Yeah, I'd be fine making the local rule the standard rule, too. So I guess if you give me anything from 1/4 to full credit for both, I can still vote 1-2, which I did.

[Groucho Valentine]

There are much dumber rules in golf than those. But from that list, the drop is what id axe. 

[CarlSpackler]

I don't think any of the rules are stupid. I do agree that footprints in the bunker are stupid, but that shouldn't happen. I would be in favor of a local rule permitting players to beat the snot out of anyone not taking care of the course.

[baller7345]

38 minutes ago, iacas said:

Sprinkler head in your putting line. You can make local rules to get around this, so I'm not even going to entertain this one. Plus, where do you draw the line? What if you're in a divot hole 30 yards off the green and there's a sprinkler head on your line - do you get to claim you're going to putt the ball and thus drop out of the divot hole to get away from the sprinkler head? What about 50 yards? 100?

Not disagreeing with this, but if they did claim they were going to putt the ball wouldn't forcing them to putt from 30, 50, or 100 yards out defeat the advantage of getting relief.

I don't know many people who are comfortable putting from those distances.  I would find it humorous to watch someone try to putt from 100 out though.

Edited November 17, 2016 by baller7345

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, baller7345 said:

Not disagreeing with this, but if they did claim they were going to putt the ball wouldn't forcing them to putt from 30, 50, or 100 yards out defeat the advantage of getting relief.

I don't know many people who are comfortable putting from those distances.  I would find it humors to watch someone try to putt from 100 out though.

On advice from my caddie, I putted from about 60 yards on the 6th hole at the Old Course.  Hit it to about 12 feet.  <issed the putt.

[baller7345]

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

On advice from my caddie, I putted from about 60 yards on the 6th hole at the Old Course.  Hit it to about 12 feet.  <issed the putt.

I could see that being an option there.  At my home course however, it'd be pretty hysterical.

"So, I've got a 60 yard putt, severely uphill (think 10% grade).  Better hit it hard to avoid leaving it short..."

[billchao]

I don't think any are stupid but I wouldn't mind if 1 or 2 of the ones on the list were changed. Placing instead of dropping and reducing the lost ball time would be fine by me.

I also don't really care for the anchored stroke rule, but that's not on this list 

[RussUK]

Went for #7. If you cant find your ball in 2 or 3 minutes then take it on the chin and admit its lost. Yes, it hurts to lose a ball but just think of the person who finds it and the joy on their little face when they do 

[Hardspoon]

I voted for 0.  I wouldn't define any of these rules as "stupid".

I'd be fine with the change to #7, although I think the five minutes is OK as an absolute maximum.  I'd hate the 18th hole of the Master's to be decided because someone couldn't find their ball in two minutes.  That's one where I think a local rule (shortening the time) might make sense.

A few of these are far, far stupider than the original rule (#3 and #5).

2 hours ago, iacas said:

So I voted 1-2, even though the five minutes isn't really a "stupid" rule, just one that I'd be fine supporting.

That's not what the vote asked.   

[rehmwa]

I'm not certain even how a rule is "stupid", or for that matter "good" - they are just rules (an agreed upon way to conduct the game).  Rules can have a 'philosophy' or not, and just be perfectly arbitrary, as long as everyone agrees to the contract, then that's the deal.

But fine, change them all, or none of them.

I'm a fan of whatever allows the pace of play to keep up.  And whatever is intuitive rather than hard to 'interpret' gets a bonus point from me.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, baller7345 said:

Not disagreeing with this, but if they did claim they were going to putt the ball wouldn't forcing them to putt from 30, 50, or 100 yards out defeat the advantage of getting relief.

They're not required to play the same stroke after they've dropped.

2 hours ago, baller7345 said:

I don't know many people who are comfortable putting from those distances.  I would find it humorous to watch someone try to putt from 100 out though.

I've putted from well off the green as well. To the 18th at the Old Course, for example, through the Valley of Sin. From 30 or so yards away, I think.

[Patch]

I have thought, with all the rules that are required (per the USGA/R&A) to play this game, how many of those rules are actually used on an every day basis, by both amateurs, and professionals? 

I have been using the rule book for several decades, and I am pretty sure I have not used all of them. Yes, maybe I missed a few here and there that might have applied, or used a wrong rule by mistake.  

Any info on the least used rules? Maybe info on a rule that could easily be covered by another to help simplify the over all rule book?

I played in a charity tournament once that had  pretty simple rules. If you missed a fairway, or landed in any hazard, you took a 1 stroke penalty, and moved your ball to the nearest point in the fairway. A ball lost had only 1 minute to be found. The idea was to stay in the fairway, and out of hazards.

It was a pretty quick 18 holes.   

[Golfingdad]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

http://www.golf.com/instruction/8-stupidest-golf-rules

1. 18-2 (Ball at Rest Moved) is the first one. I'm voting no on this one, and my reasoning is easy to find, but boils down to this: if a player causes a ball to move, he should be penalized, and the rule is as forgiving as it has ever been.
2. No relief for sand filled divots. I've been clear on this one too: there's no definition that can be applied by all, so no, play it as it lies. This almost never happens, anyway. You can't legislate too much of what is ultimately just "luck." (Good or bad.) BTW it should say no relief for sand-filled divot holes.
3. Penalizing a player for hitting a flagstick on the ground. Uhm, just move the flagstick. We penalize players for intentionally deflecting their ball, and this is basically that. Plus, nobody hits the flagstick before their ball gets to the hole - it's always after, thus helping you keep the ball closer to the hole.
4. Dropping the ball. Of the rules, I might be most easily convinced to place in all situations. But still, dropping is fine, and occurs probably 99% of the time without any incident.
5. Stroke and Distance for Lost Balls. Sorry, no. You have no idea where your ball might be. It might be unplayable, wedged in a tree, 50 yards behind where you think it's lost, etc.
6. Sprinkler head in your putting line. You can make local rules to get around this, so I'm not even going to entertain this one. Plus, where do you draw the line? What if you're in a divot hole 30 yards off the green and there's a sprinkler head on your line - do you get to claim you're going to putt the ball and thus drop out of the divot hole to get away from the sprinkler head? What about 50 yards? 100?
7. Five minutes to search for a lost ball. Wow, I thought I'd be voting for none of the rules being stupid, but I'll go along with this one. Two minutes. Maybe three.
8. No moving a ball out of a footprint in a bunker. Stupid. And I don't mean the rule.

So I voted 1-2, even though the five minutes isn't really a "stupid" rule, just one that I'd be fine supporting.

What's your tally, and what's your take on the "8 Stupid Rules"?

I voted zero.  (The only rule I think is actually stupid off-hand is the one we discussed a few months back where a player could be in a match and need his opponent to tend the flag and then if his opponent lets the ball hit the stick, the player putting is penalized ... but I digress)

None of them are stupid, however, I wouldn't lose any sleep if they eliminated or revised 1, 4, 6 and 7.  (Who am I kidding, it's a game - I wouldn't lose any sleep if they changed them all ;))

1.  I like @iacas's revision to move the bar from 51% to up in the 75% or more range with different wording.

4.  I've said on the discussions in the past that I think it makes sense to allow placing in all situations where dropping with a penalty, however, I'd advocate for still requiring a drop when taking free relief.

6.  Like @baller7345 said above, there doesn't seem to be any advantage gained by putting from excessive distances, so I don't see it getting exploited if this were just made a permanent rule, it seems fine to me.

7.  Agree with many that a slightly shorter time period is OK.  I never use all 5 anyway.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

1.  I like @iacas's revision to move the bar from 51% to up in the 75% or more range with different wording.

OT for this thread, but as there's no real way to truly define "75%" (while you can pretty narrowly define "more likely" and "virtual certainty"), I backed off that idea.

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

4.  I've said on the discussions in the past that I think it makes sense to allow placing in all situations where dropping with a penalty, however, I'd advocate for still requiring a drop when taking free relief.

That's my remaining hangup with "place everywhere" too.

1 minute ago, Golfingdad said:

6.  Like @baller7345 said above, there doesn't seem to be any advantage gained by putting from excessive distances, so I don't see it getting exploited if this were just made a permanent rule, it seems fine to me.

Once you've taken relief you don't have to putt. You can play a different type of shot.

[Golfingdad]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Once you've taken relief you don't have to putt. You can play a different type of shot.

Hmmm - I know that's true in situations we've discussed in the past - where you might have to swing lefty because of a fence, so you're now standing on the cart path, but after you drop you are not, so you don't have to swing lefty anymore - but I don't see how it would apply here.  (I'm sure it does, I'm just missing it)  The wording I'm seeing in those old threads comes from Decision 24-2b/1 and states:

In determining the nearest point of relief accurately it is recommended that the player use the club, address position, direction of play and swing (right or left-handed) that he would have used had the obstruction or condition not been there.

We know that the claim has to be reasonable (see the David Frost thread as an example) and so if you're in the fairway 80 yards away from the green behind a sprinkler head and claim that your play is a putt to get relief, wouldn't the fact that you switched clubs after receiving relief prove that you were lying, thus either negating the relief or requiring you to putt?

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Hmmm - I know that's true in situations we've discussed in the past - where you might have to swing lefty because of a fence, so you're now standing on the cart path, but after you drop you are not, so you don't have to swing lefty anymore - but I don't see how it would apply here.  (I'm sure it does, I'm just missing it)  The wording I'm seeing in those old threads comes from Decision 24-2b/1 and states:

In determining the nearest point of relief accurately it is recommended that the player use the club, address position, direction of play and swing (right or left-handed) that he would have used had the obstruction or condition not been there.

The player could say the lie of the ball makes them want to putt it. That's why I used the example of your ball in a divot hole. From 20 yards out, even, the angle might change enough that you'd have to putt through rough so you decide to pitch instead.

You don't have to play the same shot after you drop that you would have played before.

The only real provision is that you have to play a reasonable shot to begin with (i.e. not a driver on a 90-yard shot because that puts your heels in some casual water).

6 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

We know that the claim has to be reasonable (see the David Frost thread as an example) and so if you're in the fairway 80 yards away from the green behind a sprinkler head and claim that your play is a putt to get relief, wouldn't the fact that you switched clubs after receiving relief prove that you were lying, thus either negating the relief or requiring you to putt?

It wouldn't prove anything all by itself, but in some cases it would be a strong indicator that you lied, sure. The situation is different.

Where do you draw the line, though? 20 yards? And what if your ball is in a divot hole and your putter is the only club you trust to hit it out, and you're adamant about it? Or maybe you suck at 50-yard chips off downslopes, and you drop where it's flatter and can play a chip shot?

And on a lot of Scottish courses you can putt from well off the green.