Unpopular opinions you have about golf?

[mcanadiens]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

The mental game as it's commonly discussed is a very small contributor to success on the golf course.

I think this can vary widely depending on the person you are talking about. For a cool, calm sort like @iacas, I have no doubt the mental side is a virtual non-factor. For basket-cases like me ... that's different.

The "mental game" unfortunately isn't really something that can simply be practiced either. That's the bitch of it.

 

 

[Kalnoky]

Well, it is an unpopular opinions thread after all. 

[BamaWade]

2 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

I think this can vary widely depending on the person you are talking about. For a cool, calm sort like @iacas, I have no doubt the mental side is a virtual non-factor. For basket-cases like me ... that's different.

I think you make a great point with this.  No, not that you're a basket case   ...the premise of it.  Plenty of case studies on tour through the years (and across sports).  Ask Jason Day.  Any baseball fans remember Chuck Knoblauch or Mackey Sasser?

2 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

The "mental game" unfortunately isn't really something that can simply be practiced either. That's the bitch of it.

But I have to disagree with this one.  Again...Jason Day for a relevant example.  It can be practiced & conquered...it's just that sports psychologists are as numerous and accessible as club pros and instructors.  And, like golf, learning to conquer psyche on one's own is a long, uphill road.

BamaWade

[cutchemist42]

The more I think about the rules I kinda wonder if my mindset on them is popular or unpopular, that they might be too stuffy/stiff to an outsider to turn people off of the sport.

Basically, if someone were to casually look in on golf and see an HD camera 100x magnified on a small grain of sand to see if it moved or not, might think the sport is stuffy. In contrast, the most popular sport on the continent has the ball being located constantly off likely every single play. We have another sport that throws away a good portion of the rulebook during OT to "let the players decide".

That grian of sand ruling reminded me of the dilemma in the NHL on trying to figure out offsides through replay by millimetres, when the original intent of the rule wasnt really meant to be that definite/precise.

 

 

 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

I think this can vary widely depending on the person you are talking about. For a cool, calm sort like @iacas, I have no doubt the mental side is a virtual non-factor. For basket-cases like me ... that's different.

I don't agree. You're bad because your swing is bad.

I'm not talking about making decisions, and I'm definitely not talking about "your brain controls what your muscles do, so everything is about your mind game" like some people have strangely tried to define it here.

I could take over your mind for a round - but give you the same decisions and swings - and you'd shoot only a little tiny bit lower.

37 minutes ago, BamaWade said:

I think you make a great point with this.  No, not that you're a basket case   ...the premise of it.  Plenty of case studies on tour through the years (and across sports).  Ask Jason Day.  Any baseball fans remember Chuck Knoblauch or Mackey Sasser?

Knoblauch or Bless are outliers.

Jason Day would be a good golfer regardless. On the PGA Tour if it saves you two strokes over four rounds, that can mean a lot… but it's also not very many strokes.

[mcanadiens]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't agree. You're bad because your swing is bad.

I'm not talking about making decisions, and I'm definitely not talking about "your brain controls what your muscles do, so everything is about your mind game" like some people have strangely tried to define it here.

I could take over your mind for a round - but give you the same decisions and swings - and you'd shoot only a little tiny bit lower.

I'm definitely not good because my swing is bad, but my bad is terrible when I lose it mentally.

When I'm pissed that's good for 10 strokes or more. I could go back over every round I've played and mark the ones where I lost my temper. Mental alone isn't going to make me a single-digit player, but it would go a long way toward eliminating a lot of very bad rounds.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

I'm definitely not good because my swing is bad, but my bad is terrible when I lose it mentally.

When I'm pissed that's good for 10 strokes or more. I could go back over every round I've played and mark the ones where I lost my temper. Mental alone isn't going to make me a single-digit player, but it would go a long way toward eliminating a lot of very bad rounds.

Maybe. And maybe for you. But maybe not.

No way to truly tell.

5-10 off a 110 still isn't a huge contribution.

[Buckeyebowman]

OK. But how about 5-10 off a 90?  Big difference! Back in the day I was very calm on the course. But maybe I was very calm because I knew how to hit the friggin' ball! One baddie didn't make that much difference, and wouldn't lead to a landslide! Whatever happened, I knew I could recover.

Not so much these days as my skills have eroded.

[iacas]

51 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

OK. But how about 5-10 off a 90?

I don't think the mental game can really take 5-10 off a 90. Not usually. Maybe if there's a nutcase out there, but that's an exception.

I think the mental game is responsible for 1-5% or so. On the pro level it's closer to 1-2%, and for a 20 handicapper closer to the 5%, maybe.

Tiger supposedly had this awesome mental game, and yet we've seen him unable to take the range swing to the course for years now.

[mvmac]

11 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

I think this can vary widely depending on the person you are talking about. For a cool, calm sort like @iacas, I have no doubt the mental side is a virtual non-factor. For basket-cases like me ... that's different.

Pro golfers get just as nervous or have the same insecurities as everyone else. They just have really good mechanics and play a lot. Their minds don't work any differently than the rest of us. 

[Blackjack Don]

20 hours ago, sg92 said:

3. Golf will always be perceived as being a elitist game, even if we try to grow the game. 

Agreed, but when the attitude that thinning the herd isn't a bad thing is foremost, then nothing will change. The average person thinks golf is the country club, and a white man's sport. (Among young people, it's an old white man's sport.) Many of those within golf have no problem with this. Exclusivity is what they want. Maybe this isn't a problem after all. But thinning the herd hasn't worked very well for giraffes and rhinos.

PS--when I play alone, I leave the flag in. I go a lot faster. The ball is going in or its not. Too often not. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Agreed, but when the attitude that thinning the herd isn't a bad thing is foremost, then nothing will change.

Nobody's said that.

2 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

The average person thinks golf is the country club, and a white man's sport. (Among young people, it's an old white man's sport.)

Have you polled the average person? Because I just don't know how accurate that is anymore.

And have you been to an AJGA, a U.S. Kids Golf, or a Drive, Chip, and Putt competition lately?

2 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

But thinning the herd hasn't worked very well for giraffes and rhinos.

It's a must for white-tail deer in the area where I live.

[mcanadiens]

11 hours ago, iacas said:

5-10 off a 110 still isn't a huge contribution.

110? My worst round of the entire year may have been about that. Don't make it sound worse that it actually is.

To my perspective 10 strokes, the difference between a 95 and a 105, is significant.

[GolfLug]

8 hours ago, mvmac said:

Pro golfers get just as nervous or have the same insecurities as everyone else. They just have really good mechanics and play a lot. Their minds don't work any differently than the rest of us. 

This is so true at so many levels. Never have I had more faith in the power of good mechanics than now. It is all about mechanics and I consider 'feels' absolutely as a part of mechanics now. Golf is a 'system'. None other than Arnold Palmer has said it (I read it in the AP special Golf Digest). 

Playing golf with singular instincts is possible and many blessed folks do it well for some time but I think makes it too vulnerable to insecurities and nervousness that you speak of which are inherent to all activities human. The more mature your system, less the variance caused by our fears, etc. Mental game is NOT about trying to control fears or adrenaline. Heck I am going to say that in trying to do that is usually down right counterproductive.   

So, to me mental game is simply about being present and being faithful to your 'system' at all times, specifically priorities. I believe I have always been poor in sticking to one 'system' in favor of intellectual experimentation. Working hard to develop a 'mental game' to stick to my system. In my case it is mostly a healthy dose of humility for now.  

 

[Kalnoky]

9 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Never have I had more faith in the power of good mechanics than now. It is all about mechanics and I consider 'feels' absolutely as a part of mechanics now.

Even though I'm still learning, I absolutely agree with you. There is a right way to do things; that's probably the most unpopular opinion of all.

Trying to ingrain those correct mechanics i.e., make them second-nature, or "feels", is a commitment. 

[Buckeyebowman]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't think the mental game can really take 5-10 off a 90. Not usually. Maybe if there's a nutcase out there, but that's an exception.

I think the mental game is responsible for 1-5% or so. On the pro level it's closer to 1-2%, and for a 20 handicapper closer to the 5%, maybe.

Tiger supposedly had this awesome mental game, and yet we've seen him unable to take the range swing to the course for years now.

When I saw your post I wasn't sure where the "mental game" had been introduced into the conversation. So I went back and looked, and sure enough, there it was.

Overall I agree with you, better players have better mechanics that they can depend upon. But, once one attains a certain skill level in the game, or as the mechanical part of the game expands, I think so does the mental. As in presenting more options, more ways to "attack the course" in order to score.

19 hours ago, mvmac said:

Pro golfers get just as nervous or have the same insecurities as everyone else. They just have really good mechanics and play a lot. Their minds don't work any differently than the rest of us. 

Yep! Back in the day I'd go to a wildly popular local course, known to attract some real players, on the weekend. There'd be 30 to 50 players gathered around the first tee, swinging clubs and talking. But, when you addressed your ball, everything would hush! Just like the gallery at a golf tournament. That made me nervous as hell, knowing everybody was looking at me!

[georgeadey92]

what worries me on this thread is there are a couple of people who think that if you just spend time and money and practice a lot then you have a chance of being professional. 95%, probably more, of players on the PGA tour are freakishly good athletes. Just because you see the odd golfer who's overweight (these guys are still good athletes!) doesn't mean its easy. 

Coming from formerly being a professional tennis player I would say that Golf is one of the toughest sports. 

[Hacker James]

14 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

When I saw your post I wasn't sure where the "mental game" had been introduced into the conversation. So I went back and looked, and sure enough, there it was.

Overall I agree with you, better players have better mechanics that they can depend upon. But, once one attains a certain skill level in the game, or as the mechanical part of the game expands, I think so does the mental. As in presenting more options, more ways to "attack the course" in order to score.

Yep! Back in the day I'd go to a wildly popular local course, known to attract some real players, on the weekend. There'd be 30 to 50 players gathered around the first tee, swinging clubs and talking. But, when you addressed your ball, everything would hush! Just like the gallery at a golf tournament. That made me nervous as hell, knowing everybody was looking at me!

I am not much bothered by first tee jitters, but if waved through a hole, I really feel the pressure. Nothing like being waved through a hole and then look like a hack (even though I am one).