Paige Spiranac on Cyber Bullying

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Unfortunately that's not the world we live in…

No shit. But that's the point. Complacency or just accepting the status quo doesn't lead to anything changing for the better. It leads to, as Paige said, an increase in teen suicides. It leads to people continuing to bully people as they're doing now. It leads to exactly what we have now, or worse.

[newtogolf]

15 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Of course not. There is always going to be bullies on the internet, in our schools, where we work. Using the excuse that they exist so we should just accept them, or expect them, is not right and just enables them. 

Just like we shouldn't expect it to go away, that will be impossible, but actually standing up to bullies will go along way to making it less likely for them to want to be an asshole. 

No one, not even bullies, like to feel the peer pressure of being judged for their actions. All we do now is judge the victims for doing nothing wrong. 

Voicing you opinion against the opinions of what someone else has said or believes is not bullying as long as those opinions are for constructive conversation or peaceful protest. 

Hate speech, bullying, online stalking, ect... is not even close to the same thing. Putting yourself out on social media does not give people a free right to bully someone. 

Not even Trump deserves to have someone stalk him online, bullying him with hate speech and threats. 

Okay, so how do you stand up to bullies on social media, do you post a nasty comment back?  Do you report the post?  There's no accountability on social media, your account gets frozen you create a new one.  I know people that have at least two different facebook and instragram user names.  

I don't support bullying in any way, in person or cyber.  I don't personally know anyone that's ever been bullied on social media.  I told my kids before we gave them permission to have social media accounts that they shouldn't put anything on social media that they wouldn't want their college admissions office or potential job interviewer to read because once it's out there, it doesn't go away.  My daughter posts about Islander games and music she likes.  My son hardly posts, he isn't big into social media at all.  

If I posted a picture of myself in a thong I'd expect to get razzed pretty hard about it. 

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

No shit. But that's the point. Complacency or just accepting the status quo doesn't lead to anything changing for the better. It leads to, as Paige said, an increase in teen suicides. It leads to people continuing to bully people as they're doing now. It leads to exactly what we have now, or worse.

The only solution is that Facebook and other social media sites have to have stricter terms of use policies and enforce the policies better once reported.  

You and I agree, but we're not going to stop Paige from getting nasty comments written under her pictures.  

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Okay, so how do you stand up to bullies on social media, do you post a nasty comment back?

You can call out a bully without being "nasty" back.

5 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

There's no accountability on social media, your account gets frozen you create a new one.

Cyberbullying can be against the law, too. Bullies don't all post via anonymizing services.

5 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I don't support bullying in any way, in person or cyber.

No, you just think that people who dress provocatively should "expect" it.

[Hatchman]

Good topic.  Key word "abuse" because the intended comment meant to hurt or cause harm when some may clam differently.  Here's where I disagree when self appointed (*********) decide to levy their views and strong opinions via impersonal methods.  The trolls just try and creat a reaction most of the time and don't bother me with an outlandish statement until it crosses over.  Interestingly to me, a bully will sometime react to a troller I've noticed.

Mean is mean, fact is fact.  Bs is Bs.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Hatchman

[RussUK]

This is the sort of thing that always keeps me from joining stuff like twitter. I spent most of high school being bullied. Started when my Gran was diagnosed with terminal bowl cancer when i was 13. When she passed the following year it got worse, the bullies would laugh and say some disgusting things, then after they had their fill of the mental bullying the physical stuff started.

Every day i would get needled, pushed over and even spat at. Teachers tried their "best" shall we say but eventually something had to give. One day the guy bullying me decided he wanted to teach me a lesson for one reason or another so started punching an kicking me. That was all i needed to push me over the edge. I threw one punch and knocked him out, that was the first and last time i punched someone. For me, the mental bullying is the worst kind as it can be subtle and build over time, and while i dont condone violence, with physical you can at least stand up to them easier. 

No one should have to put up with bullying, whether at school, the workplace or at home. Well done Paige for speaking out.

[carpediem4300]

As a person who was bullied extensively at school I have a deep loathing for bullies, for people that are horrible for the sake of being horrible and fair play to her for standing up to them,

But, I also question what her expectations of being out there on social media and being a celeb endorser are? once you are in the social domain you open yourself to this, is it acceptable? no it is not, is it preventable? no it is not

but to not expect bullying online or otherwise im sorry but its just burying your head in the sand and pretending that the world is all sunshine, rainbows and lollipops and everyone is nice to each other and we all get along,......we dont, we never will, there will never be a time where horrible people dont exist 

I'd love to get behind an anti-bullying campaing but i simply dont see the point, its a short term fix, not a long term one, I'd much rather see our education systems tackle bullying by educating the victims that they are better than the bullies, that the words they spew are meaningless and baseless, teach the victims to simply ignore it and move on as this will hurt the bullies the most

It's like in the playground, if a bully pushes you, they do it to scare you and intimidate you, they dont expect you to hit back,.......when you push them back the tables are turned, your not frightened of them your standing up for yourself, its not the reaction they wanted, you are now up 1 on the bully

The opposite is said in social media, when someone online bullies you they dont want you to be quiet, they dont want you to ignore them, they want you to be upset, they want a response, an argument, some form of acknowledgement that what they said has affected you. in this instance you dont push the bully back, you dont rise to it, you dont respond, you stay ignore it and move on, that silence cripples the online bully because they didnt get what they want

When Paige spoke out about the bullying and the trolls, whilst morally it was correct, all she did was play into the bullies hands, she showed we was upset, she responded to them, in my eyes the bully won because they acheived their objective,.............if she came out and said "yeah i've seen some harsh comments but to be honest they dont affect me, they are insignificant so i dont waste my time with them" BOOM thats a dart straight in the eye of the bully, she didnt get upset, she didnt speak out against it and go all is woe is me, the bully did not get the reaction they wanted, Paige wins, society wins, the bully loses

 

 

[Hatchman]

Really thoughtful comments.  

Physical bullying should never be tolerated and intervened by someone whenever possible.

Cyberbullying I have better control over.  Because: I've read so much about the Ill effects of drinking, smoking, and sex, that I've decided to give up reading.

I can simply shut the comment, thread, page down, or person down.  However, if I ask a question or post in a public domain I expect a variety of shots.  I am pretty straightforward and harsh with my political satire.  Got a ton of ammunition right now.  Fair game!

 

 

[carpediem4300]

4 minutes ago, Hatchman said:

Really thoughtful comments.  

Physical bullying should never be tolerated and intervened by someone whenever possible.

Cyberbullying I have better control over.  Because: I've read so much about the Ill effects of drinking, smoking, and sex, that I've decided to give up reading.

I can simply shut the comment, thread, page down, or person down.  However, if I ask a question or post in a public domain I expect a variety of shots.  I am pretty straightforward and harsh with my political satire.  Got a ton of ammunition right now.  Fair game!

 

 

thats kind of my angle, having spent most of my adult life in therapy due to childhood bullying and abuse I've learnt the world will never change, and keeping our expectations that it will is doing more harm than good, the most effective way I found to deal with bullying is to deny them what they are after, I dont believe we will ever be bale to eradicate it happening through education or campaigns,.....but how we deal with it as victims is what i see being the most powerful tool we have

[JonMA1]

While I agree this stuff is wrong, I just don't know how you'd legislate changes or clearly define right and wrong. I'm not saying we shouldn't try, just that it would be difficult.

People have said some shitty, hurtful things on this site just for the sake of saying shitty, hurtful things. While you can argue it isn't at the same level, the intent to find humor at someone else's expense was there. 

Beyond this site, I don't participate in social media. As much good as it could offer, it seems to bring out the worst in people. When kids are a little different, all they want is to fit in, and the "cool" kids make sure that doesn't happen. It's sad. It was sad before social media and it's sad now that we have social media.

By the time we reach adulthood, we should be able to deal with it. Change the laws if you can or pursue civil legal action, but there will always be assholes in the world. 

As far as celebrities, I have even less sympathy. Maybe I'll become a better person some day and it will matter. But there is so much suffering in the world on a level far, far beyond that caused when someone types mean things about another from their cell phone.

[14ledo81]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

No, you just think that people who dress provocatively should "expect" it.

 

I'm confused by this one.  You do not think people should "expect" it?

[iacas]

25 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

I'm confused by this one.  You do not think people should "expect" it?

To have their life threatened? To be called worthless or told other things?

No.

Should a woman wearing a mini skirt expect to be raped?

Same answer.

Did you see the post @cipher made? Do you think people should "expect" that?

These people are not stopping at saying "I don't think they should have given you an exemption just because you're Instagram famous."

[14ledo81]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

To have their life threatened? To be called worthless or told other things?

No.

Should a woman wearing a mini skirt expect to be raped?

Same answer.

Did you see the post @cipher made? Do you think people should "expect" that?

These people are not stopping at saying "I don't think they should have given you an exemption just because you're Instagram famous."

 

I am certainly not saying anyone should deserve this.  I don't think anyone made that argument.

 I would think that we all know it happens and therefore would "expect" it to happen.  I watch a fair bit of hunting vids online.  It is extremely rare to not find some very negative comments.  If I put a hunting video online, I would certainly expect to get negative feedback.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

I am certainly not saying anyone should deserve this. I don't think anyone made that argument.

I didn't say the word "deserve." I said what you said - expect.

If you're going to quote me in response, at least answer the questions I asked, or don't change my words.

4 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

I would think that we all know it happens and therefore would "expect" it to happen.

No, absolutely not. That's just looking the other way and allowing it to continue.

4 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

I watch a fair bit of hunting vids online.  It is extremely rare to not find some very negative comments.  If I put a hunting video online, I would certainly expect to get negative feedback.

Cool. So it's fine with you that more teens are killing themselves. We should "expect that." They should too. Let's blame the victims for not having the foresight into the level of viciousness that anonymity affords some people. Or, let's blame their parents. Let's blame everyone but the actual bullies. They're not doing anything we shouldn't "expect."

[14ledo81]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

I didn't say the word "deserve." I said what you said - expect.

If you're going to quote me in response, at least answer the questions I asked, or don't change my words.

No, absolutely not. That's just looking the other way and allowing it to continue.

Cool. So it's fine with you that more teens are killing themselves. We should "expect that." They should too. Let's blame the victims for not having the foresight into the level of viciousness that anonymity affords some people. Or, let's blame their parents. Let's blame everyone but the actual bullies. They're not doing anything we shouldn't "expect."

 

I think you are debating this from a moral standpoint.  I am simply looking at statistics.  If when x happens 70% of the time the result is y, should we expect y to happen?

Please don't put words in my mouth either.  I certainly did not say I think its fine that more teens are killing themselves.  

I am also all for fighting against this as well.  It hurts me as a parent when I see my kids bullied at times.  In my opinion, I would be doing them a bit of a disservice by not educating them on the facts that there are bad people out there, and they will do (and say) bad things.

[carpediem4300]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

I didn't say the word "deserve." I said what you said - expect.

If you're going to quote me in response, at least answer the questions I asked, or don't change my words.

No, absolutely not. That's just looking the other way and allowing it to continue.

Cool. So it's fine with you that more teens are killing themselves. We should "expect that." They should too. Let's blame the victims for not having the foresight into the level of viciousness that anonymity affords some people. Or, let's blame their parents. Let's blame everyone but the actual bullies. They're not doing anything we shouldn't "expect."

So whats your actual answer to the problem? You dont seem to be deciphering between "accept" and "expect"

I dont "accept" that anyone should ever be bullied, I do "expect" that regardless of what anyone does it will continue to happen

IF we teach our kids that bullying is not acceptable, but to expect it to still happen and how to appropriately deal with it based on each circumstances then we will have alot less kids killing themselves, alot less adults killing themselves, and in turn alot less bullies getting the effect they desire

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

I think you are debating this from a moral standpoint.  I am simply looking at statistics.  If when x happens 70% of the time the result is y, should we expect y to happen?

Of course I am. It's morally objectionable. Citing statistics is just a way of excusing things. Of allowing it to continue to happen. It's a way of victim blaming. "Well, what did she expect to happen?"

13 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

Please don't put words in my mouth either.  I certainly did not say I think its fine that more teens are killing themselves.

You're the one saying we should "expect" it and little else.

Yeah, it happens. I don't think anyone's denying that. Talking about how it's "expected" is re-stating a given but doing nothing to change the "given" in the future.

13 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

I am also all for fighting against this as well.  It hurts me as a parent when I see my kids bullied at times.  In my opinion, I would be doing them a bit of a disservice by not educating them on the facts that there are bad people out there, and they will do (and say) bad things.

This goes beyond your own kids.

9 minutes ago, carpediem4300 said:

So whats your actual answer to the problem? You dont seem to be deciphering between "accept" and "expect"

I am.

My answer? That's what this thread is here to talk about. Most of what we're getting thus far is just being told that people should "expect" it. So, right now, part of my answer is that we stop talking about how a woman who posts pictures on Instagram should "expect" to have to deal with death threats and being called horrible names and things?

I'm sure there's more that can be done. I'm teaching lessons here soon, but again that's what this thread is for - to talk about it, raise awareness, come up with ideas on how to stop it.

9 minutes ago, carpediem4300 said:

IF we teach our kids that bullying is not acceptable, but to expect it to still happen and how to appropriately deal with it based on each circumstances then we will have alot less kids killing themselves, alot less adults killing themselves, and in turn alot less bullies getting the effect they desire

I agree that every parent should do that, and monitor their child's social media usage, and so on. But that's almost the least we can do.

[saevel25]

19 minutes ago, 14ledo81 said:

I would think that we all know it happens and therefore would "expect" it to happen.  I watch a fair bit of hunting vids online.  It is extremely rare to not find some very negative comments.  If I put a hunting video online, I would certainly expect to get negative feedback.

So if a college girl goes out to a bar and then gets raped we should just say, "Oh well, its expected to happen?" A few reports have the percentage of women raped in college at 20-25% over the entire college career.

The same logic is used. The woman was wearing too provocative of clothing. The woman should not have been out alone. "What do think is going to happen?," people will say. Society makes excuses for the men who rape women. Society makes excuses for bullies. 

What do you think propagates this in college? Maybe society turning a blind eye towards it or making excuses for.

[carpediem4300]

5 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

So if a college girl goes out to a bar and then gets raped we should just say, "Oh well, its expected to happen?" A few reports have the percentage of women raped in college at 20-25% over the entire college career.

The same logic is used. The woman was wearing too provocative of clothing. The woman should not have been out alone. "What do think is going to happen?," people will say. Society makes excuses for the men who rape women. Society makes excuses for bullies. 

What do you think propagates this in college? Maybe society turning a blind eye towards it or making excuses for.

 

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

Of course I am. It's morally objectionable. Citing statistics is just a way of excusing things. Of allowing it to continue to happen. It's a way of victim blaming. "Well, what did she expect to happen?"

You're the one saying we should "expect" it and little else.

Yeah, it happens. I don't think anyone's denying that. Talking about how it's "expected" is re-stating a given but doing nothing to change the "given" in the future.

This goes beyond your own kids.

I am.

My answer? That's what this thread is here to talk about. Most of what we're getting thus far is just being told that people should "expect" it. So, right now, part of my answer is that we stop talking about how a woman who posts pictures on Instagram should "expect" to have to deal with death threats and being called horrible names and things?

I'm sure there's more that can be done. I'm teaching lessons here soon, but again that's what this thread is for - to talk about it, raise awareness, come up with ideas on how to stop it.

I agree that every parent should do that, and monitor their child's social media usage, and so on. But that's almost the least we can do.

This is it though, in a perfect world nobody should expect this, or to be raped, or mugged, or murdered,......but the world will never be perfect, as much as you and I wish it was, it never will be, it wont matter what education is put in place, laws, prison sentences, peeople will still bully, rape, mug, murder each other, and it will never change

By saying nobody should expect it is pure out and out dangerous, if every body expects it then they can protect themselves from it, If my kids expect to get negative and horrible comments on their social media and know how to deal with it, it will affect them alot less than not expecting it, 

if a woman on a night out expects that walking alone along a deserted road could get her raped then perhaps she wont make that walk, 

this is not accepting the problem, it is not turning a blind eye to the problem, by expecting it we are opening our eyes to the danger, we are accepting that there is a problem, we are accepting and educating that it is not only bad to do these things, but it is prudent to keep yourself safe regardless

 

I wish i knew to expect bullying and how to cope with it before trying to kill myself twice, perhaps if i knew it was expected and how to cope with it i would of coped better?