Raking a Bunker Along Line of Play Before Your Shot

[Hacker James]

this was covered in another thread, but this is a little different. 

Can you rake a bunker prior to taking a shot from the fairway?

supposing you are let's say 30 yards out over a green side bunker. You notice that the previous group had not raked out the trap so you send your forecaddie ahead to rake it out (Care for the course).  Note, you are not improving your lie, but perhaps a "potential" lie in the event you come up short and land in the beach. The rules as I understand them were changed in  2012 to make it possible for a player to rake a bunker "at any time" under the intent of caring for the course.   

[iacas]

13-2 says you cannot improve your "Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play."

So no, rake it after you hit your shot if you're not in it.

[Hacker James]

you are probably right. I was only thinking about from the aspect of improving a lie, which you could not improve a lie you are not in.  Line of Play vs Direction of Play. You would not be improving the direction, but then again, I am not clear on the definition of LOP, ergo I would defer to your assessment. Obviously, the player had no "intention" of hitting into the bunker, but took the action on a possibility he might. OTOH, maybe he is an exceptional bunker player and did in fact intend to land into it rather than depend on loft and roll.

[Missouri Swede]

42 minutes ago, iacas said:

13-2 says you cannot improve your "Lie, Area of Intended Stance or Swing, or Line of Play."

So no, rake it after you hit your shot if you're not in it.

A corollary question:  if the bunker is on the other side of the green, he could have the bunker raked (since line of play does not extend beyond the hole), correct?

[Hacker James]

17 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

A corollary question:  if the bunker is on the other side of the green, he could have the bunker raked (since line of play does not extend beyond the hole), correct?

Good point! Adds to the discussion. My original subject line did not address "line of play" as it was modified by someone else. I would say you are correct.

[iacas]

36 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

I am not clear on the definition of LOP

I quoted it in the other thread, and you can always look them up here: http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html

36 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

Obviously, the player had no "intention" of hitting into the bunker

Intent is often irrelevant in the Rules of Golf. Just the action and the result.

[Hacker James]

Thank you.  I did look up line of play. From my viewpoint, has nothing to do in this instance as the line of play was not modified,unless one would argue that by raking the sand, an obstruction was moved.  but I would agree in principle that it should be raked after the shot rather than  before, assuming it did not go in.

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Hacker James

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Hacker James said:

Thank you.  I did look up line of play. From my viewpoint, has nothing to do in this instance as the line of play was not modified, unless one would argue that by raking the sand, an obstruction was moved.  but I would agree in principle that it should be raked after the shot rather than  before, assuming it did not go in.

The line of play was modified.

[Martyn W]

3 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

A corollary question:  if the bunker is on the other side of the green, he could have the bunker raked (since line of play does not extend beyond the hole), correct?

There would be no 13-2 breach but could be 1-2. If his intent is to care for the course, OK. If he rakes the bunker in case he hits into it, that would be a breach.

A player must not (i) take an action with the intent to influence the movement of a ball in play or (ii) alter physical conditions with the intent of affecting the playing of a hole.

Exceptions:

1. An action expressly permitted or expressly prohibited by another Rule is subject to that other Rule, not Rule 1-2.

2. An action taken for the sole purpose of caring for the course is not a breach of Rule 1-2

[Rulesman]

4 hours ago, Martyn W said:

 

2. An action taken for the sole purpose of caring for the course is not a breach of Rule 1-2

 

[Martyn W]

37 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

 

 

37 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

. An action taken for the sole purpose of caring for the course is not a breach of Rule 1-2

I know, I posted it ;).   

I also posted this:

4 hours ago, Martyn W said:

There would be no 13-2 breach but could be 1-2. If his intent is to care for the course, OK. If he rakes the bunker in case he hits into it, that would be a breach.

 

[Rulesman]

Sorry. I was just emphasising the point that there has to be no other incidental purpose.

[Fourputt]

On 12/31/2016 at 2:39 PM, Martyn W said:

There would be no 13-2 breach but could be 1-2. If his intent is to care for the course, OK. If he rakes the bunker in case he hits into it, that would be a breach.

 

I don't like the way you worded this.  It shouldn't matter what his intent was if he subsequently ends up in that bunker where he just raked.  If the area raked was not on his line of play, then no foul even if he shanks his ball into that spot.

I understand the intent of the rule allowing for care of the course, but that shouldn't excuse the player from the consequences of a questionable act.