Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[mvmac]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

You lost way more strokes with the full swing than you did with the short game and putting.

Exactly, good post.

@Marty2019, do you see how that's a much more accurate assessment what what you played bogey golf?

[Abu3baid]

Nice post @iacas

That's a dose of reality for sure.  I have had this exact conversation with my partner several times where after his round he starts blaming his short game and putting.  So, we go over each hole and basically start with how many GIRs did you hit?  Ok, well how often were you two putting for bogie?  And by the end he realizes if it wasn't for the OB shots, the chunked irons or mishits he wouldn't be where he is.

You probably have seen a lot more, but I'm assuming since chipping and putting are on the tail end of the hole it's the only thing golfers remember going bad.. Even if they are 2 putting for double they still think if I hit that first putt I would be a bogie golfer.

[Marty2019]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

You lost way more strokes with the full swing than you did with the short game and putting. Had I played the course letting you hit all the full swing shots, I'd have likely hit one of the short game shots close enough to convert a two-putt into one-putt, I'd have made one more putt, and I'd have not three-putted. That's a 41, still well over par. The other five strokes are all on your full swing.

Thanks for the feedback.  I can see your point.   However, when I play a hole, and have a second shot of, say, 120 to 150 yards, and I miss the green by 6 feet, and then my 30 foot chip shot goes 15 feet, the question has to be, which was worse, the full shot or the chip shot, and which is more easily fixed?  

2) Par 3. Missed the green to the right by a few yards, chipped to 6 feet, missed the putt, bogey.    Sure I could hit the green with my tee shot, but I failed to get up and down from just a few yards off the green.  

3) Par 4. Great drive, but forgot the water juts into the fairway on the right, took a drop, 3rd shot on green, 2 putted from 15 feet, bogey.   This is just course management.  I hit a great drive, right where I aimed it, I just aimed it in the wrong place. 

4) Par 4, second shot failed to take the wind into account, so I went over the green, chipped short and 2 putted from 15 feet, bogey.   Again, this is course management and short game.  My full shot was really good, but I failed to take into account a 15 mph wind behind me.  Then, I was just off the back of the green about 20 feet from the pin, and my chip shot went 10 feet.  There's nothing wrong with any full shot on this hole.  I hit both full shots very solid.  I made a mental error. 

7) Par 3. Too much club.  Back of the green.  20 foot downhill putt, misread the line, missed a 5 footer, 3- putt bogey.    This is partly on my full shot and partly on my putting.  

8) Par 4. Second shot just off the green, chipped short of the hole, two putted from 15 feet for bogey.    This is partly full shot, partly short game.  My second shot was mis-hit and I missed the green by about 8 feet, but I was only about 30 feet from the hole and again I chipped halfway to the hole. 

9) Par 4.  Drove into trees, punched out to fairway, 3rd shot just in front of green, chipped short and 2 putted for double bogey.   Yeah, this was a bad full shot off the tee, but again, subsequently, I was just off the green with a clear path to the pin from about 20 feet, and chipped it halfway to the hole. 

Now, if you look at this, sure, you can say that out of say, 18 full shots, I had a few really bad ones and a few really mediocre ones, but look at how many times I chipped the ball halfway to the hole.  So what's the low-hanging fruit here?  The long game or the short game?   Which is easier to fix, hitting the green from 120 to 150 yards, or getting up and down from 6 feet off the green, or 2 putting from 20 feet instead of 3 putting? 

Yeah, now that I type this, I see your point.   I'm driving the ball in the fairway, but missing too many greens in regulation.  I really need to give that more consideration.   I just think the worst part of my game is my chipping.  

Again, thanks for the feedback.  

 

[Marty2019]

3 hours ago, Abu3baid said:

Nice post @iacas

That's a dose of reality for sure.  I have had this exact conversation with my partner several times where after his round he starts blaming his short game and putting.  So, we go over each hole and basically start with how many GIRs did you hit?  Ok, well how often were you two putting for bogie?  And by the end he realizes if it wasn't for the OB shots, the chunked irons or mishits he wouldn't be where he is.

You probably have seen a lot more, but I'm assuming since chipping and putting are on the tail end of the hole it's the only thing golfers remember going bad.. Even if they are 2 putting for double they still think if I hit that first putt I would be a bogie golfer.

I think everyone is in a different situation.   If you miss greens in regulation, and then fail to get up and down for par, how can you say whether you failed to make par because or your short game, or you failed to make par because of your long game?   You have to ask the question, how bad is your long game compared to how bad is your short game.   If you miss a GIR by 50 yards and then fail to get up and down for par, that's a long game problem.   But if you miss a green by 6 feet and then fail to get up and down for par with a nice easy chip shot from 25 feet, that's a short game problem.  

For your friend, I would ask, how far is he missing his second shot, and how far is he missing his chip shot.   If he misses the GIR and winds up 2 putting for bogey, there's a chip shot in there that failed to get him close to the hole.   Why?   Was it a difficult chip shot or an easy one? 

I think you have to look at circumstances and say, how bad was his approach shot and how bad was his chip shot.   Then fix the one that is most easily fixed.  

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Marty2019

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

Thanks for the feedback.  I can see your point.   However, when I play a hole, and have a second shot of, say, 120 to 150 yards, and I miss the green by 6 feet, and then my 30 foot chip shot goes 15 feet, the question has to be, which was worse, the full shot or the chip shot, and which is more easily fixed?  

2) Par 3. Missed the green to the right by a few yards, chipped to 6 feet, missed the putt, bogey.    Sure I could hit the green with my tee shot, but I failed to get up and down from just a few yards off the green.  

3) Par 4. Great drive, but forgot the water juts into the fairway on the right, took a drop, 3rd shot on green, 2 putted from 15 feet, bogey.   This is just course management.  I hit a great drive, right where I aimed it, I just aimed it in the wrong place. 

4) Par 4, second shot failed to take the wind into account, so I went over the green, chipped short and 2 putted from 15 feet, bogey.   Again, this is course management and short game.  My full shot was really good, but I failed to take into account a 15 mph wind behind me.  Then, I was just off the back of the green about 20 feet from the pin, and my chip shot went 10 feet.  There's nothing wrong with any full shot on this hole.  I hit both full shots very solid.  I made a mental error. 

7) Par 3. Too much club.  Back of the green.  20 foot downhill putt, misread the line, missed a 5 footer, 3- putt bogey.    This is partly on my full shot and partly on my putting.  

8) Par 4. Second shot just off the green, chipped short of the hole, two putted from 15 feet for bogey.    This is partly full shot, partly short game.  My second shot was mis-hit and I missed the green by about 8 feet, but I was only about 30 feet from the hole and again I chipped halfway to the hole. 

9) Par 4.  Drove into trees, punched out to fairway, 3rd shot just in front of green, chipped short and 2 putted for double bogey.   Yeah, this was a bad full shot off the tee, but again, subsequently, I was just off the green with a clear path to the pin from about 20 feet, and chipped it halfway to the hole. 

Now, if you look at this, sure, you can say that out of say, 18 full shots, I had a few really bad ones and a few really mediocre ones, but look at how many times I chipped the ball halfway to the hole.  So what's the low-hanging fruit here?  The long game or the short game?   Which is easier to fix, hitting the green from 120 to 150 yards, or getting up and down from 6 feet off the green, or 2 putting from 20 feet instead of 3 putting? 

Yeah, now that I type this, I see your point.   I'm driving the ball in the fairway, but missing too many greens in regulation.  I really need to give that more consideration.   I just think the worst part of my game is my chipping.  

Again, thanks for the feedback.  

 

The main thing that struck me is your statement that chipping is easier to fix.

If the chipping is easier to fix, then why did you not fix it already? In which case, it seems like bogey golf for you should only be a temporary problem? I can see if the green were really slick as it usually is in the winter time that your chipping is worse, but in the summertime your handicap should drop dramatically from bogey to a much lower handicap?

What Erik posted makes a lot more sense in general, and very likely in your case as well.

Having the swing mechanics to get within 8 feet twice in 9 holes demonstrates very good muscle control to strike the ball really well, so chipping shouldn't be all that difficult?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

Thanks for the feedback. I can see your point. However, when I play a hole, and have a second shot of, say, 120 to 150 yards, and I miss the green by 6 feet, and then my 30 foot chip shot goes 15 feet, the question has to be, which was worse, the full shot or the chip shot, and which is more easily fixed?

The latter is more easily fixed, but it deserves less of your blame.

If you hit the green, you're basically going to average par if you putt at a bogey golfer's level. If you miss the green, even PGA Tour players average well over par. You may be forgetting that you also hit several short game shots to reasonably good range.

It's been recommended by others (and myself) that you buy LSW. You should. There's a reason it's sold so many and keeps selling so many despite a) no marketing campaign, and b) being out for over 18 months.

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

2) Par 3. Missed the green to the right by a few yards, chipped to 6 feet, missed the putt, bogey.    Sure I could hit the green with my tee shot, but I failed to get up and down from just a few yards off the green.

You missed the green. GIR is King. PGA Tour pros are going to fail to get up and down from off the green sometimes from there, particularly if the lie is odd, or the green is tricky.

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

3) Par 4. Great drive, but forgot the water juts into the fairway on the right, took a drop, 3rd shot on green, 2 putted from 15 feet, bogey.   This is just course management.  I hit a great drive, right where I aimed it, I just aimed it in the wrong place.

So? It's still your driver that cost you strokes. Also, GamePlanning is an SV④ skill. It's not your short game, and it's not putting.

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

4) Par 4, second shot failed to take the wind into account, so I went over the green, chipped short and 2 putted from 15 feet, bogey.   Again, this is course management and short game.  My full shot was really good, but I failed to take into account a 15 mph wind behind me.  Then, I was just off the back of the green about 20 feet from the pin, and my chip shot went 10 feet.  There's nothing wrong with any full shot on this hole.  I hit both full shots very solid.  I made a mental error. 

Leaving aside the fact that your math is bizarre there (20 - 10 = 15?), I disagree: you still made a mistake with your full swing game as you failed to hit the green. That's all. Call it a "mental mistake" all you want, but the error showed up in missing the green. GIR is King.

The other people who responded have no reason to lie to you, @Marty2019.

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

7) Par 3. Too much club.  Back of the green.  20 foot downhill putt, misread the line, missed a 5 footer, 3- putt bogey.    This is partly on my full shot and partly on my putting.

FWIW you actually got that one backward. That was not a full swing mistake. Hitting the green and leaving yourself a 20-footer means you should average just under par. Your mistake there was your putting - it was the only time you get to blame your putting, though. One time.

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

8) Par 4. Second shot just off the green, chipped short of the hole, two putted from 15 feet for bogey.    This is partly full shot, partly short game.  My second shot was mis-hit and I missed the green by about 8 feet, but I was only about 30 feet from the hole and again I chipped halfway to the hole.

No, it's mostly full swing. You're under-stating how important it is to get on the green.

Put it this way:

- If you hit the green, you average 2 from there.
- If you miss the green, you average 2.75 or so.

You made a 3 from there. 0.75 of those strokes are from missing the green. 0.25 are from the poor chip. Until you can reasonably expect to get up and down > 50% of the time (which is an awfully high level of play, and which would put your putting and short game well above your general ball-striking), the blame there remains with the full swing.

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

9) Par 4.  Drove into trees, punched out to fairway, 3rd shot just in front of green, chipped short and 2 putted for double bogey.   Yeah, this was a bad full shot off the tee, but again, subsequently, I was just off the green with a clear path to the pin from about 20 feet, and chipped it halfway to the hole.

You were already lying one over GIR and still weren't on the green. You were going to average at least 5.6 on the hole from where your third shot put you. Your short game and putting cost you less than half a stroke. C'mon, this is the most obvious one, Marty.

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

Now, if you look at this, sure, you can say that out of say, 18 full shots, I had a few really bad ones and a few really mediocre ones, but look at how many times I chipped the ball halfway to the hole. So what's the low-hanging fruit here? The long game or the short game?   Which is easier to fix, hitting the green from 120 to 150 yards, or getting up and down from 6 feet off the green, or 2 putting from 20 feet instead of 3 putting? 

Nobody sane will ever tell you that putting and the short game isn't the easier fix. I've written the same thing many, many times. My kid's a competitive golfer and she almost never practices her short game and putting. She's decent at them because she got the basics down, but… they're pretty darn easy to get, and they're the fastest way to get better.

But there's a cap on how good you can get if you have a great short game. I'll quote a book two smart people wrote…

Quote

 

Imagine a game in which you pair two average PGA Tour players with two average 80s golfers. Team A will play by having the pro hit every shot that requires a Full Swing Motion (roughly every shot from 65+ yards), and the 80s golfer will play every short game shot and hit every putt. Team B will play the opposite way: the pro will hit every short game shot and putt after the 80s golfer plays every shot from the tee to about 65 yards.

On a typical 7000-yard golf course, what might you expect these teams to score? Which team would win?

 

Which team wins? Does the margin of victory grow or shrink if you keep the PGA Tour players the same but increase or decrease the skill level of the other golfer?

---

Now, I'll say something that I earnestly mean to help you, but it may come across as mean. But bear in mind I don't know you very much at all, so I could easily have it wrong, and ultimately as I said the intent here is to help. I'm also not even commenting on you, really, but rather that your post reminded me of other people.

There's a thing I'm noticing in increasing frequency among golfers who are not playing up to their potential. They always seem to blame the "easy" things. They comfort their egos by saying "well, it's my short game, putting, and mental game, and those are easy to fix." On one hand, I get it. It's a way of stopping your ego from being bruised too much, by telling yourself "hey, I can fix it. I'm actually going to be a much better golfer soon when I put in that little bit of time and get my short game, putting, and mental game on track." But on the other hand, this seems odd to me: why wouldn't golfers blame the things that are hard? If they're so easy, why haven't these golfers have fixed them yet?

So, while I get that it helps protect your (general "you" here, not you Marty specifically at all) ego by making you think "oh well, with just a little effort I could be much better," it also makes you (general you) look kinda stupid: if it's that easy to shave 3, 5, 7 strokes from your game, why haven't you done it?

Again, and now speaking to you again @Marty2019, I tell all the people I coach that the short game and putting are the easiest things to fix. I understand the psychology of blaming the more recent thing that happened, too, and thinking it is responsible for the "lost shot" on that hole. But right there I've typed one right thing and one wrong thing: putting and the short game are the easiest, fastest way to get a return on investment (your time), but they suffer from the law of diminishing returns VERY quickly, and they're ultimately responsible for fewer lost shots than golfers credit to them.

Changing (improving) your full swing is hard. Yes, absolutely, make yourself a 14 handicapper from 60 yards and in, and stay a 20 with the full swing, and you'll probably still play bogey golf (the 20 has more weight than the 16, so you can't just average them).

26 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

I think everyone is in a different situation. If you miss greens in regulation, and then fail to get up and down for par, how can you say whether you failed to make par because or your short game, or you failed to make par because of your long game?

You can say. Missing greens is the single biggest contributor to a higher handicap's score. The stats and proof are out there, really. Unless you're a huge exception, missing the green matters quite a bit more.

We know a few things:

• Putting and the short game are the easiest.
• They're the areas in which any two groups of golfers are closest.
• They're the areas in which fewer shots are lost to par.

The median PGA Tour player in 2015 probably scrambled at just under 60%. In other words, they got up and down 60% of the time, and averaged around bogey the other 40% of the time. That's a 2.4 scoring average for them. When they hit the green, they average about 1.8. If they miss the green, and fail to get up and down, missing the green cost them 0.6 strokes. Missing their par putt (for whatever reason) cost them 0.6 shots.

You probably scramble at about 20%. You make bogey (or worse) 80% of the time. You average 2.8 from around the green. When you hit the green, you average par. Thus, for you, the gap widens: you cost yourself 0.8 shots by missing the green.

You're moving the blame too far into the future. Instead of blaming the shot that put you in a bad position (missing the green is a bad position), you're blaming the shot you try to play from the bad position. PGA Tour pros average 2.4 from off the green. You average 2.8. Your short game and putting combined cost you 0.4 over what you can reasonably call your ceiling - being about as good as you can get, ever.

Yes, the short game and putting are the easiest places to shave a few strokes. But they still don't cost you "most" of your strokes. In reality, they cost yo about 1/3. The other 2/3 come from your full swing. Yes, that 1/3 from the short game and putting is way, WAY easier to do than even saving the same 1/3 from the full swing, but… ultimately it's not where "most" of your shots are lost.

26 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

If you miss a GIR by 50 yards and then fail to get up and down for par, that's a long game problem. But if you miss a green by 6 feet and then fail to get up and down for par with a nice easy chip shot from 25 feet, that's a short game problem.

In all honesty, that depends on things like the length of the hole. Miss the green at all from 100 yards? I'm blaming the full swing all day. Miss it by six feet from 200? You saved strokes with the full swing (because you're likely going to average over 4 strokes from there).

This recent round also suffers from small sample sizes. You didn't make any of the "unlikely to make" putts, but if you take 100 putts from six feet, 40% of them will go in, maybe. So if you leave yourself six feet from the hole after a chip shot, you're averaging 2.6 or so. Ditto the 15-footers: you probably make about 10-15% of them, so even from there you average 1.85 or so. Yet partial savings don't show up on any given shot when you consider the score - we only count in whole numbers. It's tough for golfers to see "partial shots" saved or lost.

It's impossible to get so good at the short game that you chip everything to four feet. It's impossible to get so good at the putting that you make everything inside of even four feet. It's basically, for all practical purposes, impossible to get up and down at a higher rate than a PGA Tour player… and yet even they average 2.4 strokes scrambling. If you average 2.85… putting and the short game cost you only 0.45 strokes. Missing the green is what cost you the other 0.55.

---

Finally, again, yes the short game and putting are low hanging fruit. Absolutely work on them first. You'll see sizable nearly instant gains, and then a quick tail-off. That's when the hard(er) work begins: working on your full swing. That's the area that cost you the most strokes.

[Marty2019]

24 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The main thing that struck me is your statement that chipping is easier to fix.

If the chipping is easier to fix, then why did you not fix it already? In which case, it seems like bogey golf for you should only be a temporary problem? I can see if the green were really slick as it usually is in the winter time that your chipping is worse, but in the summertime your handicap should drop dramatically from bogey to a much lower handicap?

What Erik posted makes a lot more sense in general, and very likely in your case as well.

Having the swing mechanics to get within 8 feet demonstrates very good muscle control to strike the ball really well, so chipping shouldn't be all that difficult?

If the chipping is easier to fix, then why did I not fix it already?   My answer to that is, first of all, doesn't everyone usually have more than one thing that needs improvement, and isn't one usually easier to improve than the other?  That's just inevitable. 

But secondly, the reason my chipping needs so much more improvement than the rest of my game is probably because up until a couple of months ago, I never ever practiced it.  I've been playing golf for 40 years, with about 10 years off until about 2 years ago, and all I ever ever did for practice was hit balls on the range.  

The statement I made was that chipping the ball halfway to the hole on a very easy 25 foot chip shot is a much worse shot than missing a green by 6 feet from 120-150 yards.  On the 9 holes I played the other day, I was missing the green on my approach shots by feet and missing the hole on my chip shots by yards.  

Every hole I play is different, but here is a very common hole for me: Hit a good drive in the fairway, miss the green by less than 10 feet on my approach, leave my chip shot more than 10 feet from the hole, and 2 putt for bogey.   What was the worst shot in that sequence?  My chip shot.   So what should I work on first?  

 

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Marty2019

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

The statement I made was that chipping the ball halfway to the hole on a very easy 25 foot chip shot is a much worse shot than missing a green by 6 feet from 120-150 yards.  On the 9 holes I played the other day, I was missing the green on my approach shots by feet and missing the hole on my chip shots by yards.

The gap is not nearly as wide as you're making it out to be. Missing the green from 125 yards costs you strokes. It costs everyone strokes.

No, it probably isn't the majority of your strokes in that case… but that's a pretty special situation, missing the green by just a little and having an easy short game shot.

3 minutes ago, Marty2019 said:

Every hole I play is different, but here is a very common hole for me: Hit a good drive in the fairway, miss the green by less than 10 feet on my approach, leave my chip shot more than 10 feet from the hole, and 2 putt for bogey.   What was the worst shot in that sequence?  My chip shot.   So what should I work on first?

If I was a betting man I would bet that you average missing the green with your approach shot by significantly more than ten feet on average. I doubt very much that the above is "common" unless we have fairly different definitions of "common."

But if it is common, then @Marty2019, what are you doing???? If I ever had a round where I hit it to within 10 feet of even 10 or 11 of the 18 greens, hit my chip shot 12 feet, and missed my 12 footers, I'd spend time working on my short game and putting, post-haste! I'd probably head straight to practice right then! But you haven't done that?! Why on earth not? If you're that big of an exception to all that we know now about how people score, and what affects scores, why haven't you worked on your short game to go along with what you now keep telling us is a high-level full swing?

We know that the short game and putting contribute about 35% to a golfer's scores, and the full swing about 65%. So if you're averaging bogey golf (18) with even a 9-handicapper level full swing, that'd put you around… a 34 handicap with the short game. So what are you waiting for? That's not low-hanging fruit… that's fruit that fell to the ground, became sentient and mobile, climbed up your pants, and smacked you on the face.

[Marty2019]

45 minutes ago, iacas said:

@Marty2019

 

---

Now, I'll say something that I earnestly mean to help you, but it may come across as mean. But bear in mind I don't know you very much at all, so I could easily have it wrong, and ultimately as I said the intent here is to help. I'm also not even commenting on you, really, but rather that your post reminded me of other people.

 

Finally, again, yes the short game and putting are low hanging fruit. Absolutely work on them first. You'll see sizable nearly instant gains, and then a quick tail-off. That's when the hard(er) work begins: working on your full swing. That's the area that cost you the most strokes.

I'm not the least bit offended, Erik.  I really really appreciate the feedback, and I will give it very strong consideration. 

 

[9wood]

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

If the chipping is easier to fix, then why did I not fix it already?  

 

 

My chipping was horrible until I watched the following Jim Furyk video on chip shots and put this method into practice. Worked like a charm for me.

 

 

[Marty2019]

18 minutes ago, 9wood said:

My chipping was horrible until I watched the following Jim Furyk video on chip shots and put this method into practice. Worked like a charm for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48PlO1NUvUs

That's a great video.  Thanks. 

And now, it's up to 48 degrees!  Time for me to go play. 

 

Edited January 20, 2016 by Marty2019

[9wood]

1 hour ago, Marty2019 said:

That's a great video.  Thanks. 

And now, it's up to 48 degrees!  Time for me to go play. 

 

You're welcome - and good luck 

[allenc]

As a golfer who quickly came down from bogey to an 11-12 over the course of a year I believe trying to use the above technique is a terrible idea for bogey golfers who are bad chippers and want to grab some "low hanging fruit."

Look where Furyk is chipping from.  There is like 8 feet of fairway grass then green.  The right club for 90% of bogey golfers is putter.  If with any regularity you chip it half way to the hole, or 15 feet away, that will almost never happen after a tiny amount of practice putting from off the green.  I putt from about anywhere within 30 ft of the green if the ball will roll at all.

Many of my similarly skilled playing partners chip every time and can definately hit some nice ones close but I'm definitely a better "chipper" on average than every one of them.  You can just never be sure they won't drizzle it a few feet forward with a flub.  I'm inside 10 ft basically always and also get some really close.

Also, if you're worried that avoiding chipping will hurt your development I have one counter example.  The only really good player I ever play with, a +2 handicap at worst, also putts from everywhere.  I'm not sure if I've ever seen him chip.  I don't think I've ever seen him do a flop shot or anything like that either.  I'm sure he uses a wedge from thick rough around the green but he's not there often enough for me to remember.  It's true that most of his green misses are just on the puttable fringe but I definately recall many putts through 40 feet of fairway (obviously par 5s) and through light rough.

As an aside it's also an example of the relative importance of the long game.  He basically doesn't do anything impressive except bomb it straight down the center time and time again.  Ok and a pretty good lag putter.

So in summary, chipping is for hitting out of the rough, period.  Putt from everywhere else.

[9wood]

27 minutes ago, allenc said:

 The right club for 90% of bogey golfers is putter.

I'm sure 90% of the golfers, including the pros will disagree with you. Nevertheless, stick with what works for you.

I have been using the method shown in the Furyk video and now have holed many more chip shots using Furyk's method than I ever did when trying it with a putter.

[allenc]

26 minutes ago, 9wood said:

I'm sure 90% of the golfers, including the pros will disagree with you. Nevertheless, stick with what works for you.

I have been using the method shown in the Furyk video and now have holed many more chip shots using Furyk's method than I ever did when trying it with a putter.

After rereading my post I see I sounded a bit snarky and dismissive of your video.  Sorry about that, it's a good chipping lesson and a common technique.

I said 90% would do better to putt to allow for people such as yourself, who consider themselves good chippers, to ignore me.  My post was inspired by @Marty2019 's post complaining about being a bad chipper.  I would say however that it applies to 100% of the 20 or so bogey golfers I've played with last year.

You have to remember to average the horrible miss hits with all your good chips.  For example you may hit your chips 2 feet closer than putts on average when you make good contact.  But that may not be enough to offset the one in four you hit 25 feet further from the hole than you would a putt because you flubbed it.  I guess you would really have to try each for many rounds then do a strokes gained analysis to find out for sure.

[SteveH]

I really dislike putting from off the green most of the time. I find it really hard to know what effect the 3,4,5 or 8 feet of grass surrounding the green will have on the ball and typically am left with a tough putt. I have a much better result nearly every time by using a 9 iron or wedge, usually ends up a tap in or even in. I guess it comes down to where you focus your practice time.

[rkim291968]

23 minutes ago, SteveH said:

I really dislike putting from off the green most of the time. I find it really hard to know what effect the 3,4,5 or 8 feet of grass surrounding the green will have on the ball and typically am left with a tough putt. I have a much better result nearly every time by using a 9 iron or wedge, usually ends up a tap in or even in. I guess it comes down to where you focus your practice time.

Same here.   I use 7i to "putt" to get a ball over 1st cut/rough.  I am much better with it than using a putter in similar situation. 

[9wood]

1 hour ago, SteveH said:

I really dislike putting from off the green most of the time. I find it really hard to know what effect the 3,4,5 or 8 feet of grass surrounding the green will have on the ball and typically am left with a tough putt. I have a much better result nearly every time by using a 9 iron or wedge, usually ends up a tap in or even in. I guess it comes down to where you focus your practice time.

Exactly

1 hour ago, allenc said:

 

I said 90% would do better to putt to allow for people such as yourself, who consider themselves good chippers, to ignore me.

Actually I'm not what I would call a good chipper. It's just that a putter doesn't do it for me for chip shots and a iron used in a putting stance works better for me and gives me much better results than a putter for chip shots.