Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[natureboy]

A chart I saw on here in early posts that was helpful to me in 'benchmarking' where my relative strengths and weaknesses are, so I've extended it a little.

Some caveats: It's not 6 sigma precise - some of the curves are interpolated / tweaked a bit. It's based on multi-round averages from different data sets - individual mileage is likely to vary. Extra significant digits are included to help discriminate where your stat fits in the bins, not to indicate the accuracy of the curve fit. Average score of 65 is based roughly on pro-level skill. Sort of what they might average on a non-PGA setup course rather than their actual average scores of around 71. I wouldn't expect a pro to just barely break par on a 'typical' course. Depending on how far off this assumption is, lower end numbers will be more skewed.

That said, if you have helpful suggestions to tweak or improve it, please share or PM me (especially links to good data) if that feedback is considered off-topic.

MULTI-ROUND STAT AVERAGE ~ CORRELATED WITH AVERAGE SCORE
AVERAGE SCORE	65	70	75	80	85	90	95	100	105
~ Course HCP (Course Rating 72)	-10	-5	0	5	10	15	20	25	30
~ Course HCP (Course Rating 68)	-6	-1	4	9	14	19	24	29	34
~ USGA Recommended Length of Tees (Yards)	7,226	6,854	6,494	6,151	5,827	5,522	5,235	4,967	4,714
# GIR	13.40	10.95	8.85	6.80	5.30	3.90	2.80	1.90	1.20
% GIR	74.4	60.8	49.2	37.8	29.4	21.7	15.6	10.6	6.7
# GoFIR	14.40	12.53	10.63	8.75	6.94	5.25	3.72	2.39	1.33
% GoFIR	80.0	69.6	59.1	48.6	38.6	29.2	20.6	13.3	7.4
# GIRP (GIR +1 / Bogey GIR)	18.00	17.70	16.64	15.37	13.94	12.41	10.87	9.35	7.94
% GIRP (GIR +1 / Bogey GIR)	100.0	98.4	92.5	85.4	77.4	69.0	60.4	52.0	44.1
% Par 3 - GIR (Iron Accuracy)	91.2	74.3	59.1	45.6	33.8	23.8	15.4	8.8	4.0
~ % Fairways	84.8	73.0	62.0	51.3	40.9	30.6	20.5	10.4	3.0
Degrees Offline From Tee	2.7	3.6	4.4	5.1	5.8	6.5	7.1	7.7	8.3
~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 175 Yd Drive	8.3	10.9	13.4	15.7	17.9	20.0	21.9	23.8	25.6
~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 200 Yd Drive	9.4	12.5	15.3	18.0	20.5	22.8	25.1	27.2	29.2
~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 225 Yd Drive	10.6	14.0	17.2	20.2	23.0	25.7	28.2	30.6	32.9
~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 250 Yd Drive	11.8	15.6	19.1	22.5	25.6	28.5	31.3	34.0	36.5
~  Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 275 Yd Drive	13.0	17.2	21.1	24.7	28.1	31.4	34.5	37.4	40.2
~ Lateral Dispersion (Yds) From Tee - 300 Yd Drive	14.2	18.7	23.0	26.9	30.7	34.2	37.6	40.8	43.8
Average Drive Distance / Accuracy (Degrees Offline) Ratio	106.5	74.8	56.9	45.5	37.6	31.9	27.5	24.1	21.4
75% 'Good Drive' Distance	297.2	275.6	256.9	240.6	226.2	213.5	202.0	191.8	182.5
Avg Drive Distance (@ ~ 60% Fwys)	288.0	267.2	249.2	233.5	219.7	207.3	196.3	186.4	177.5
~ # Penalty Strokes	0.26	0.31	0.50	0.82	1.20	1.65	2.17	2.83	3.63
~ # "Doubly Awfu" (Lost / OB / Haz)	0.18	0.21	0.35	0.56	0.86	1.23	1.71	2.19	2.80
# "Awful" Shots (Including "Doubly Awful")	0.68	0.94	1.44	2.50	3.90	5.60	7.46	9.70	12.14
# Awful - Long Game	0.53	0.64	1.05	1.72	2.64	3.78	5.11	6.72	8.62
# Awful - Short Game	0.15	0.27	0.42	0.75	1.25	1.78	2.35	2.99	3.55
# Pitch / Chip / Sand Shots	5.0	7.3	9.4	11.4	13.4	15.6	18.0	20.9	24.2
% Greenside U&D;	85.1	71.8	59.6	48.1	36.7	25.2	13.1	0.1	0
# Putts	29.2	31.6	33.1	33.8	34.3	34.9	36.0	38.0	41.4
~ # PPGIR	1.783	1.999	2.144	2.239	2.290	2.343	2.420	2.556	2.779
~ # PPmGIR	1.157	1.378	1.542	1.663	1.747	1.827	1.922	2.060	2.265
# 3-Putts / Rnd	0.53	0.89	1.17	1.42	1.68	2.00	2.41	2.96	3.70
% 3-Putts	3.0	4.9	6.5	7.9	9.3	11.1	13.4	16.5	20.6
~ Expected Putts ≥ 2 (Lag Zone) Distance (Ft)	33.45	29.59	26.17	23.14	20.47	18.10	16.01	14.16	12.52
~ 50% Probability of 3-Putt Distance (Ft)	97.36	88.19	79.89	72.36	65.55	59.37	53.78	48.71	44.13
~ 25% Putt Make Distance (Ft)	14.48	13.03	11.72	10.54	9.49	8.53	7.68	6.91	6.21
~ 50% Putt Make Distance (Ft)	7.80	7.12	6.50	5.94	5.42	4.95	4.52	4.13	3.77
~ 75% Putt Make Distance (Ft)	4.99	4.65	4.34	4.05	3.77	3.52	3.28	3.06	2.85
# Birdies -	5.6	3.7	2.3	1.4	0.7	0.3	0.2	0.1	0.1
% Birdies -	30.9	20.7	13.0	7.5	3.9	1.9	1.0	0.7	0.0
# Pars	11.5	11.5	10.2	8.2	6.2	4.5	3.1	2.2	1.5
% Pars	63.9	63.7	56.4	45.8	34.6	24.8	17.3	12.1	8.2
# Bogies	0.8	2.4	4.4	6.2	7.4	7.6	7.0	5.8	4.3
% Bogies	4.6	13.4	24.5	34.7	41.1	42.5	38.9	32.0	23.7
# Doubles	0.1	0.2	0.8	1.7	2.8	3.8	4.6	5.2	5.5
% Doubles	0.5	1.4	4.4	9.4	15.3	21.0	25.8	29.1	30.3
# Triple +	0.0	0.1	0.2	0.3	0.7	1.5	2.6	4.1	6.0
% Triple +	0.0	0.6	0.9	1.9	4.1	8.1	14.2	22.6	33.4

[sjduffers]

I think the first 2 rows should be swapped.  The course handicap is higher when the course is more difficult, ie. when the course rating is 72 vs 68.

Other than that, at my level (around 85), I find my stats are very near the projected stats, in nearly all categories, a bit worse on GIR and a bit better on FIR and putting.  I am working on my irons right now to bridge that gap.

[DrvFrShow]

I agree, swap the two first rows, and you've got it. I go to 95 and that's pretty much my round right down to the lateral dispersion of the drives.

[natureboy]

I think the first 2 rows should be swapped.  The course handicap is higher when the course is more difficult, ie. when the course rating is 72 vs 68.

Other than that, at my level (around 85), I find my stats are very near the projected stats, in nearly all categories, a bit worse on GIR and a bit better on FIR and putting.  I am working on my irons right now to bridge that gap.

I agree, swap the two first rows, and you've got it. I go to 95 and that's pretty much my round right down to the lateral dispersion of the drives.

I found I was a bit worse on GIR vs GoFIR too. The GIR curve may be need to be knocked down a bit. I found I was higher on putting and lower on long game stats, which fits my relative strengths / weaknesses right now, which is why I found the exercise helpful. Lag putting (3-putts %) is my worst (farthest right) bin.

Good points on the first two rows. It's a mislabel, then. It should read just HCP, not course HCP. It was meant to show that average score (and the stats averages) on a 'home course' with an easier course rating like mine will be lower for the same skill level / handicap. So same HI player scores a bit higher and has higher average stats if they play regularly on a tougher course rating.

[natureboy]

I found I was a bit worse on GIR vs GoFIR too. The GIR curve may be need to be knocked down a bit. I found I was higher on putting and lower on long game stats, which fits my relative strengths / weaknesses right now, which is why I found the exercise helpful. Lag putting (3-putts %) is my worst (farthest right) bin.

It's possible that the GIR average is okay. In the case of my game at least, I can see that poor pitching / short approaches would reduce my expected GIR on par 5s enough to make it not match up with the GoFIR and GIRP.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by natureboy

I found I was a bit worse on GIR vs GoFIR too. The GIR curve may be need to be knocked down a bit. I found I was higher on putting and lower on long game stats, which fits my relative strengths / weaknesses right now, which is why I found the exercise helpful. Lag putting (3-putts %) is my worst (farthest right) bin.

It's possible that the GIR average is okay. In the case of my game at least, I can see that poor pitching / short approaches would reduce my expected GIR on par 5s enough to make it not match up with the GoFIR and GIRP.

The chart does not seem to take into account near GIR statistics.

[RFKFREAK]

I found I was a bit worse on GIR vs GoFIR too. The GIR curve may be need to be knocked down a bit. I found I was higher on putting and lower on long game stats, which fits my relative strengths / weaknesses right now, which is why I found the exercise helpful. Lag putting (3-putts %) is my worst (farthest right) bin.

Good points on the first two rows. It's a mislabel, then. It should read just HCP, not course HCP. It was meant to show that average score (and the stats averages) on a 'home course' with an easier course rating like mine will be lower for the same skill level / handicap. So same HI player scores a bit higher and has higher average stats if they play regularly on a tougher course rating.

Very but what's your home course?  The reason I ask is because I'm in the Albany, too.

[alleztom]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to TST, signed up yesterday, and I would count myself as a bogey golfer. In response to the original post:

What I am going through:

I rediscovered the sport in the last 6 months, I'm late 20s, reasonably athletic but have had to stop other sports due to bad knees. I have played a round/week on average, had 3 lessons.

I've gone from averaging 55 shots per 9 holes (usually after work) to low 40s, including 41 (+5)  yesterday, on my home course (6242 yds) which was a PB.

working on:
Driving: I've pared back my driver swing (was hugely over swinging before, very little control), now trying to get it to bend the way I want (I'm currently driving about 240 yds with a slight fade).

Irons: My distance control is pretty good, but my dispersion is not fantastic, can be 10m right or left of the green

Pitching: Trying to get a consistent ball strike, I duff too many of these. The advice on other threads on this site plus in Lowest Score Wins has been very helpful.

any sob stories you like to share: none really, in my view golf is to be played with a stiff upper lip.

Stats for last 6 18 hole rounds (admittedly 12x9):

Average to par +22

Putts/rd: 33.1

GIR/rd: 3.2

within 20yards of GIR/rd: 9

Driving: 40%Fairways Hit, 36% with driver

3 putts: 2.2 round

Putts per GIR: 2

%Up and Down(I only count when I land nGIR): 30%

All these stats have been trending better, showing good improvement. My aim is to be a 10 handicap by the end of the year.

[boogielicious]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to TST, signed up yesterday, and I would count myself as a bogey golfer. In response to the original post:

What I am going through:

I rediscovered the sport in the last 6 months, I'm late 20s, reasonably athletic but have had to stop other sports due to bad knees. I have played a round/week on average, had 3 lessons.

I've gone from averaging 55 shots per 9 holes (usually after work) to low 40s, including 41 (+5)  yesterday, on my home course (6242 yds) which was a PB.

working on:

Driving: I've pared back my driver swing (was hugely over swinging before, very little control), now trying to get it to bend the way I want (I'm currently driving about 240 yds with a slight fade).

Irons: My distance control is pretty good, but my dispersion is not fantastic, can be 10m right or left of the green

Pitching: Trying to get a consistent ball strike, I duff too many of these. The advice on other threads on this site plus in Lowest Score Wins has been very helpful.

any sob stories you like to share: none really, in my view golf is to be played with a stiff upper lip.

Stats for last 6 18 hole rounds (admittedly 12x9):

Average to par +22

Putts/rd: 33.1

GIR/rd: 3.2

within 20yards of GIR/rd: 9

Driving: 40%Fairways Hit, 36% with driver

3 putts: 2.2 round

Putts per GIR: 2

%Up and Down(I only count when I land nGIR): 30%

All these stats have been trending better, showing good improvement. My aim is to be a 10 handicap by the end of the year.

Those are pretty good stats for someone only back for six months.  Check out the Swing Thoughts section and Member Swings.  There are great ideas on improvement there.

[alleztom]

Those are pretty good stats for someone only back for six months.  Check out the Swing Thoughts section and Member Swings.  There are great ideas on improvement there.

Thanks, very kind. As I said those are for the last 6 rounds, rather than 6 months, since I've been taking proper stats. I'm sure the averages would be much worse had I incorporated the other rounds. I'll definitely go check out those other sections.

[dkolo]

Figure this thread might've gotten forgotten, so I'll throw some of my experiences from today in:

The thaw hit here pretty good over the past few days, and I've gotten myself to the driving range every day that it hasn't rained since Thursday. I'd been working in my living room all winter on positional stuff and getting new feelings in to try to get more connected and maybe get more lag in my swing through better connection (not that lag was a goal, but it was more of something I figured my swing would produce if I did other things correctly). Like the past two winters, I got to the range and had shanks, shanks, and more shanks. I at least had enough tools in my arsenal to at least recognize that I was hitting it off the hosel and to understand some cause and effect to try some different things to rectify it. Thursday I did some "well, lets try to hit the toe" but that wasn't helping. I swung left, which did help find center, but was causing some ghastly shot shapes. Friday, I worked more on being very slow and deliberate and practicing motions about half a dozen times between shots and hitting very short, pitchy iron shots. But I was hitting everything really fat, which hadn't been a big problem for me since I think I get my weight forward pretty decently. I had a few decent shots when I was focusing on wristy swings to build release into my swing. So I did a bunch of that at home. Today, it wasn't happening for me after a bucket and I was down to my last 5 balls or so and decided to hit driver a few times for the hell of it. I hit 3 lousy ones and decided to experiment. I tried driving my elbow right into my side on the downswing and feeling like my right arm was almost pushing out to the ball. That really did the trick and I hit the two best drives of my life. I grabbed more balls and really had a lot of success with the driver. I went back to irons and I felt like I was getting somewhere, but wasn't close. I remembered a swing thought I had last year of feeling like I was whipping the club (so a very wristy swing), which got my backswing much steeper. Man, that did it. Felt like midseason form. Even down to my 5 iron, which is sort of my litmus test for "do I have a swing or is it just my short irons?," I was hitting it better than ever. I event felt confident enough to play around with shots. I hit 5 consecutive shots where I tried to hit a draw, a fade, a punchy knockdown, something really high, and just dead straight. I'd never made it through the entire sequence before, but it worked out. So I'm psyched for season again. Hope I keep it going next time.

That was more by way of venting myself than anything, but I wonder: do most people in our handicap bracket feel like they lose their swings after a long winter layoff or is it more of a "I feel less sharp" sort of thing? I'm more of the former, but I'm curious what others' experiences are.

[rkim291968]

Figure this thread might've gotten forgotten, so I'll throw some of my experiences from today in:

I tried driving my elbow right into my side on the downswing and feeling like my right arm was almost pushing out to the ball. That really did the trick and I hit the two best drives of my life.

I saw that tip from golf fix and it is helping me rid of flipping somewhat.

[Al B Tross]

I saw that tip from golf fix and it is helping me rid of flipping somewhat.

Ditto here - the #1 thing I'll be working on once I can get to the range.

[Al B Tross]

Figure this thread might've gotten forgotten, so I'll throw some of my experiences from today in: That was more by way of venting myself than anything, but I wonder: do most people in our handicap bracket feel like they lose their swings after a long winter layoff or is it more of a "I feel less sharp" sort of thing? I'm more of the former, but I'm curious what others' experiences are.

I definitely lose my swing in the offseason but admit that I don't do enough indoor drills over the winter to hold onto the lessons learned the previous year. That said, I have found that in the last few years, it's taken a shorter period of time for me to find my swing again. Part of that I believe is because I've been able to isolate the parts of my swing that usually break down and focus mainly on them. I no longer try to fix everything.

[dave s]

Just back from a FL vacation where the wife and I played 3 rounds in the Palm Harbor / Odessa, FL area.  Boy, my game is in shambles from tee to around the green.  Short game was solid as usual.  Holed a lengthy putt from just off the green, jarred a greenside pitch that flew INTO the hole and stayed, hit the stick on another chip that dropped.  All three for birdies.

Now, the bad stuff.  Many drives were either high-hooks that found trees, water or lost.  Drives that were hit solidly were blocked right and into trees, water or worse.  In 3 18-hole rounds I probably hit 4 high straight ones with driver.  Driving was a D- and led to a lot of penalty strokes.

Hit some good mid-irons, (7s and 6 irons) but bladed several short irons including a few full wedges.  Half way through the 2nd round it was like, 'damn, have you EVER played this game before?'  Approach game another solid D grade.

Third round it was flat out HOT.  Probably high-80s and typical FL humidity.  Back nine I 3-putted 4 greens enroute to a stellar 101 on the card.  Ouch.  Putting was a solid C- and it's usually a strong part of my game.  The wife and I 'count 'em all' when we play.  She really wants to know where she's at, where she needs to practice to improve and whether or not she's improving or getting worse!

But what a wonderful break from ugly Ohio.  Wall to wall sunshine and 'instant summer' in Tampa area.  Just wish the golf could have been better.  No fault of the golf courses we played, though.  They were nice and fair.

Will start the practice regimen when weather allows.  First league night is 4/2.  I seriously doubt we'll be playing that early as bad as the winter has been here.  Hope to get some serious practice time in over the next 2-3 weeks.

That's all.  Carry on. I still suck.

dave

[rkim291968]

Ha!   I also have a relatively strong short game.   But in the last 3 months, I've focused much more of my practice on ball striking.   Predictably, my sand game went from respectable (gets the ball out of sand most of the times) to hurting (1/2 the times, need more than a swing to get out) the score.

It's good that your wife approach to golf is similar to yours (I assume).   My wife does not believe in counting every stroke, or doing practice for that matter.  But she's at 26 HI (I secretly count all her strokes and record so that we can enter casual tournament together).

[rkim291968]

Bump.

I neglected this thread a bit b/c my HI briefly went north of 22.   I know this thread is for everyone to post regardless of their HI but I told myself that I won't post in this thread until I get my HI below 22.

A reminder:  A true bogey golfer (no generous scoring ) is still a good golfer.   We are better than most casual golfers.

[dkolo]

Bump.

I neglected this thread a bit b/c my HI briefly went north of 22.   I know this thread is for everyone to post regardless of their HI but I told myself that I won't post in this thread until I get my HI below 22.

A reminder:  A true bogey golfer (no generous scoring ) is still a good golfer.   We are better than most casual golfers.

I'm teetering on the edge! Went from a 22.1 to a 22.8 after shooting a 97 (a disastrous 53 and a more reasonable 44 after putting driver away at the turn). It can always get worse, but I know I'm better than that score. I just didn't know what a fairway looked at until the 13th hole, and even then I was up against the rough, haha.