Jason Day Spits at Pace of Play, Vows to Slow Down

[DaveP043]

For those who would prefer not to have a slow-play issue or penalty influence the outcome of a tournament, I'd suggest that slow play already DOES influence the results.  For players who move along at a decent pace, many will tell you that going too slow throws them off their game.  So its the slow players who are costing faster players strokes.  Enforcement of an effective pace of play policy would simply change which players get  adversely effected.

[Zeph]

As long as they aren't penalized, I don't see a problem with Tour players taking their time. For me as a viewer it's annoying and it's not something I would like to see on the course when I play myself, but this is their job, their living. If they play better by using as much time as they can, I can't fault them for it. It's their source of income and they obviously want to win tournaments. The rules is what must control the time they use on the course.

If I played on the Tour and had Wednesday to Sunday away to play golf, why wouldn't I spend as much time as I was allowed on the course, if it meant better results? I won't drag a round of Sunday golf out just to post a good score, but if I was playing for millions of dollars, I probably would.

As far as the pace of play and slow golf goes, I wouldn't mind there being a difference between those that play as a job, to earn an income, and the rest of us who do it for fun.

[b101]

6 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

For those who would prefer not to have a slow-play issue or penalty influence the outcome of a tournament, I'd suggest that slow play already DOES influence the results.  For players who move along at a decent pace, many will tell you that going too slow throws them off their game.  So its the slow players who are costing faster players strokes.  Enforcement of an effective pace of play policy would simply change which players get  adversely effected.

I remember watching Day 3 of the Masters last year and thinking that Spieth's pace would have been bugging McIlroy. I'm sure he'd deny that it affected his game, but they are so different in terms of speed that it must have had a small effect.

[iacas]

15 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

Jason Day is not the problem, it's the culture which is further exasperated by the really slow players like Moore, Speith, Furyk. And of course the Pga and the officiating. 

Jason Day is one of the slower players. He may be faster today but he's not really in contention at all.

You're probably not seeing as much coverage of Day today, either, and you pick up coverage of him when he's closer to hitting the ball.

5 hours ago, Zeph said:

If I played on the Tour and had Wednesday to Sunday away to play golf, why wouldn't I spend as much time as I was allowed on the course, if it meant better results?

Because you're an entertainer and the fans ultimately pay for you to play a game for a living.

Because the Rules of Golf say you should play without undue delay.

Because pace of play is one of the single biggest issues with the game today.

[natureboy]

On 1/6/2017 at 8:17 AM, Vinny Cap said:

they do it on TV so they can sell more commercials!  All about the $$$

Not sure that it's intentional, but there's a side-benefit for the networks in having more 'content' to fill with commercials so their short-term interests don't necessarily align with the goal. I don't think it's intentional, but it might diminish their enthusiasm for pointing out the problem. Long term though I think it hurts the product just like longer baseball games.

On 1/6/2017 at 8:44 AM, saevel25 said:

Until the PGA (tour) enforces stricter pace of play rules there is no reason for slower players to speed up.

It might not only be the PGA Tour that could influence things as the networks that cover the events provide a lot of the funding.

On 1/6/2017 at 9:11 AM, krupa said:

At the end of the day, slow play = less viewers = less advertising = less money for the slow players to slowly play for.

Not necessarily in the short term - see top response. In the long term I'd agree with you.

On 1/7/2017 at 9:41 AM, DaveP043 said:

Could the slow player be forced to wear a hat shaped like a turtle's shell??

Edited January 8, 2017 by natureboy

[iacas]

PGA != PGA Tour.

I know people know that. I'd like to request that more people take the time to type "Tour".

[Buckeyebowman]

21 hours ago, iacas said:

@Buckeyebowman, this is the central conflict in what you keep writing.

The people you have a problem with (the second group) learned their behavior from the first group.

I could easily say I don't have a problem with slow play except for when it directly affects me when I'm on the golf course, but that's not how things work. Slow players aren't just slow when they're in the groups in front of me. They're slow all the time. And they're slow because they learned to be slow, and are allowed to be slow. And so on. It's a big web of slooooowwwwwww.

OK, look! Let's see if we can straighten this out here. I've never maintained that slow players on public course DID NOT learn that behavior from watching Tour pros. However it is not a given that they did! Some people are just slow! I've worked with lots of people who were not golfers that just couldn't get a move on! They didn't know the meaning of "hurry up!"

Yes, when we get stuck behind a bunch of slow pokes on the course, it's an easy target to blame tour players. It's the environment we're in at the time.

Besides, if it's all "learned" behavior, I've watched plenty of televised golf, yet I play fairly quickly. Does this say that I'm incapable of learning?

Edited January 9, 2017 by Buckeyebowman

[iacas]

The fact remains that if some players learn to play slowly because they see PGA Tour players playing slowly, then you ultimately care about the pace of play, and your first post was (somewhat) inconsistent. Only if the PGA Tour's pace of play has no (or a very small) influence is your first post consistent.

That's all I or anyone else was trying to say.

Plus, others have good reasons why the pace of play on the PGA Tour sucks that has nothing to do with the pace of play of regular golfers: you get to see less golf when you're there in person, televised golf shows fewer shots per minute from the leaders, etc.

[Buckeyebowman]

I can appreciate that opinion. PGA pros suffering slow play in a tourney really doesn't affect me. When I, and my friends, are stuck behind a bunch of slowpokes on a local course, that's more immediate.

I don't really care where the behavior comes from, it bothers me. I was taught, early on, to keep it moving! Maybe that overcame what I watched on TV. I do forget sometimes that others may not have had the mentors I did.

[carpediem4300]

On 06/01/2017 at 6:51 PM, b101 said:

Haha, it's a bit bigger than that one - they had the British Masters there a couple of years ago; it's a great track

http://www.europeantour.com/myeuropeantour/news/top-photos-from-the-british-masters/

---

Back on topic though, and I don't buy the argument that 'the PGA Tour can't do anything about it'. It's like diving/referee abuse in the Premier League - if they really wanted to stop it, they could, but just don't have the balls to take the flak that will come with it for the year or so before the pros found something else to moan about. 

Beautiful course, I've played it a few times and its tough as hell (For a wild driver like me anyway), I go most years to see the senior masters as I get tickets through work and we sponsor it

[Vinny Cap]

10 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I was taught, early on, to keep it moving!

I do forget sometimes that others may not have had the mentors I did.

Two very important items quoted.

1 - New golfers must learn pace of play from the start.  Helpful for a lifetime of golf!

2 - A good mentor will teach pace of play, ready golf, course management and how to take care of the course. ( Divots, puck marks, sand traps)

I was lucky and had a great mentor when I started.  I have passed this on to my son as I taught him the game.

[Zeph]

17 hours ago, iacas said:

Because you're an entertainer and the fans ultimately pay for you to play a game for a living.

Because the Rules of Golf say you should play without undue delay.

Because pace of play is one of the single biggest issues with the game today.

Entertainer, yes, but I consider their performance as the main goal of what they do. The entertainment part varies greatly from player to player. Some revel in the attention and media focus, others avoid it the best they can. I'm not saying they shouldn't care about how they are looked upon by the viewers, but will him spending more time on the course outweigh the potential upswing of winning or placing high in a tournament? The spectator part of golf, or any sport, is very important, but I don't consider the way the players act in the elite of their respective sport as a major factor to their success, as long as they play within the rules.

What is undue delay? Synonyms to "undue" can be "unwarranted" or "unjustifiable". If Jason believe he plays better golf by spending more time, is it then undue delay?

I absolutely agree with you on the last point. Both at professional and amateur levels, the time it takes to spectate or play a round of golf is a big issue.

I guess what I'm trying to convey is that there's a difference to be made between Jason being a golfer and an entertainer/person. If he continues to play well, he might not "need" the positive publicity he would get playing fast (depending on his prioritisations). And as long as he's not breaking the rules, which would hurt his score, the job/golfer part of this, I understand and really can't fault him for. The other part of this is Jason as a person, as an entertainer, as a role model and someone we as golf fans get to know. To me, he's come across as a decent person in his act on and off the course so far.

This case is one where I will fault his personal side of the equation, not his professional one. He's making the golf rounds longer, I will need to spend more time watching the tournaments if I want to watch one, and one could say he's sending a message to amateurs and professionals that spending as much time as possible is perfectly fine. I won't fault his professional side, as I was trying to explain in my first reply.

Tiger Woods, Patrick Reed, Ian Poulter, Sergio Garcia, Rory Sabbatini, Bubba Watson. All players at the top level at some point, that has a negative reputation because of how they act. Some scenes are found on the golf course, others in their life outside of golf. I'm putting Jason's attitude towards this into this category. A category which affects how they are liked by the public. I like Tiger Woods the golfer, but don't care for the Tiger Woods that's throwing clubs and tantrums on the course.

If the PGA Tour wants the golf they show to be emulated by amateurs, they have to use the rules to prevent the players from spending too much time. As long as what Jason does is within the rules, we can only fault him as a person. We have all learned to use the rules to our advantage and get ahead as often as we can. Unfortunately, the way Jason is using his allotted time on the course can be influential on amateurs and directly affect our personal experience on the golf course. Just as Tiger's club throwing and Sergio's bunker bashing is emulated by amateurs.

[Hoganman1]

I guess I'm like everyone else in that I hate slow play when I'm playing. Getting behind a slow group or playing with "deliberate" players is irritating. However, I'm not bothered by the pace of play during Majors or PGA Tour events. I'm old and I remember when a certain pro was blamed for slow play because people  tended to imitated him while playing. The guy was slow, but he still had moderate success. His name was Jack Nicklaus. 

Edited January 9, 2017 by Hoganman1

[No Mulligans]

I just saw this regarding other pros annoyed with Day's comments on slowing down:

http://www.golfworlddigital.com/gw/01_09_2017/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1059566#articleId1059566

[Golfingdad]

6 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

I just saw this regarding other pros annoyed with Day's comments on slowing down:

http://www.golfworlddigital.com/gw/01_09_2017/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1059566#articleId1059566

He also hinted at one of the examples that worries me about the equitability of the slow play rules:

Quote

“If I were to get paired with Jason on the weekend of a major championship, and this is what slow players fail to understand, is that if we get put on the clock and I need a minute on a shot late on Sunday afternoon or late Saturday afternoon of a major championship, am I allowed to have that time because Jason has played slow all day, has chosen to do that? That creates a problem with me. I don’t feel that creates a level playing field, and it’s not being respectful to your fellow tour pros.” - Brandt Snedeker

 

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Zeph said:

but will him spending more time on the course outweigh the potential upswing of winning or placing high in a tournament?

Probably not, but here's the thing, too… someone's going to win the tournament. It's not like if Jason Day doesn't take his time, nobody's going to win. Maybe Rory McIlroy wins. Or Spieth. Or someone else. And good for them… but you'll still get a winner.

Take it to an extreme: if Jason Day wanted to take seven hours to play a round, would you be okay with that, or would you rather see someone else win in four or four and a half?

Guys are selfish. And they're probably not even all that correct about playing better.

And again, they can take the same amount of time… just start your routine before it's your time to hit. Then when it's your turn, be 20 seconds out from hitting and go. Don't be a minute out.

10 hours ago, Zeph said:

What is undue delay? Synonyms to "undue" can be "unwarranted" or "unjustifiable". If Jason believe he plays better golf by spending more time, is it then undue delay?

Often, yes. Undue is subjective, but I'm suggesting that there's no reason they can't play more quickly, and that it's not reasonable to ask that they do, which means they're unduly delaying by not having started their routine earlier.

10 hours ago, Zeph said:

This case is one where I will fault his personal side of the equation, not his professional one. He's making the golf rounds longer, I will need to spend more time watching the tournaments if I want to watch one, and one could say he's sending a message to amateurs and professionals that spending as much time as possible is perfectly fine. I won't fault his professional side, as I was trying to explain in my first reply.

I'm not sure I separate them out like that. It's one guy (because it's all golf-related - this isn't about how good a tipper Jason Day is or whether he cheated on Ellie or whatever).

10 hours ago, Zeph said:

Tiger Woods, Patrick Reed, Ian Poulter, Sergio Garcia, Rory Sabbatini, Bubba Watson. All players at the top level at some point, that has a negative reputation because of how they act. Some scenes are found on the golf course, others in their life outside of golf. I'm putting Jason's attitude towards this into this category. A category which affects how they are liked by the public. I like Tiger Woods the golfer, but don't care for the Tiger Woods that's throwing clubs and tantrums on the course.

This is Jason Day the golfer, though.

Some people didn't like how Tiger behaved on the golf course, either. That's fine, and directly related to Tiger Golfer.

10 hours ago, Zeph said:

If the PGA Tour wants the golf they show to be emulated by amateurs, they have to use the rules to prevent the players from spending too much time. As long as what Jason does is within the rules, we can only fault him as a person.

I fault him as a golfer, not as a person. This is golf-related, not off-the-course stuff.

36 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

I just saw this regarding other pros annoyed with Day's comments on slowing down:

http://www.golfworlddigital.com/gw/01_09_2017/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1059566#articleId1059566

Good.

Quote

If I were to get paired with Jason on the weekend of a major championship, and this is what slow players fail to understand, is that if we get put on the clock and I need a minute on a shot late on Sunday afternoon or late Saturday afternoon of a major championship, am I allowed to have that time because Jason has played slow all day, has chosen to do that? That creates a problem with me. I don’t feel that creates a level playing field, and it’s not being respectful to your fellow tour pros.”

It's not being respectful to your fellow tour pros.

Quote

Snedeker added that it’s on golf’s governing bodies to enforce and penalize players for slow play but also said Day and others need to pick up the pace. “I’m not naïve to think we’re going to be playing in four hours,” he said. “But we don’t need to be playing in five-plus hours.”

Fat chance of that happening since golf's governing body for this on the PGA Tour is… the PGA Tour and thus the players themselves.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Day also said,  "If that means I have to back off five times, then I’m going to back off five times before I have to actually hit the shot.”

Once you've figured out what to do, why would you need to back off (unless it's the 12th tee at Augusta)? Why does he think playing slowly helps him play better? Sounds to me like he doesn't have a lot of mental focus.

If I were paired with him, I might bring a book to read while he's backing off five times. Might as well make good use of the time.

There was a Tour golfer a few years ago (whose name I forgot) who was a real snail, but in the fourth round of one tournament he was the first to tee off and he played as a onesome. He also had a flight to catch, so he finished his round under three hours and shot something under par. He said, afterwards, there is no reason for me to play slow again. Anybody else remember this?

 

 

[Golfingdad]

4 minutes ago, The Recreational Golfer said:

There was a Tour golfer a few years ago (whose name I forgot) who was a real snail, but in the fourth round of one tournament he was the first to tee off and he played as a onesome. He also had a flight to catch, so he finished his round under three hours and shot something under par. He said, afterwards, there is no reason for me to play slow again. Anybody else remember this?

Kevin Na (I think??) did something similar just last year I believe ... but I don't know about any comments afterwards.