Brandel Chamblee going into controversy mode (Tour Player Angle of Attack Debate)

[nevets88]

It's angle of attack and McIlroy's back. Oi, we've been through this before. Again? I bet the line of argument is going to be exactly the same as previous times.

 

 

[David in FL]

He's a golf commentator.  It's his job to comment on golf related things.  So much the better if it also generates talk and even controversy, as that can lead to additional viewership.

Honestly, he doesn't bother me at all.

[krupa]

What does Chamblee mean by a "descending blow"?

This guy says Thomas's AoA off the tee is +4.8 while the tour average is -1.3.

http://www.pgatour.com/video/2015/06/03/justin-thomas-exudes-power-and-finesse.html  (around 2:50 in the video)

How much do golfers change something like that?  I was under the impression that the answer was "never... at least, not without making a significant swing change."

[Golfingdad]

40 minutes ago, David in FL said:

He's a golf commentator.  It's his job to comment on golf related things.  So much the better if it also generates talk and even controversy, as that can lead to additional viewership.

Honestly, he doesn't bother me at all.

I agree.  However, I'm very curious about his Justin Thomas comment because the trackman info shared last week after his SBS win showed that Thomas was not only hitting up, but was hitting up at like +4 degrees.

So was Chamblee just referring to one particular drive where Thomas was trying to hit a stinger under the wind or something else?  It doesn't add up.

Controversy is fine, but misinformation and/or lying not so much. :)

[phillyk]

6 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I agree.  However, I'm very curious about his Justin Thomas comment because the trackman info shared last week after his SBS win showed that Thomas was not only hitting up, but was hitting up at like +4 degrees.

So was Chamblee just referring to one particular drive where Thomas was trying to hit a stinger under the wind or something else?  It doesn't add up.

Controversy is fine, but misinformation and/or lying not so much. :)

I remember watching the Golf Channel before this Sony Open, and they were making the case that most players this week will hit with a "descending" blow to control their tee shots.  They said by taking 3/4 swings and putting the ball further back that players will hit the ball lower and with less side spin to hit more fairways.  It was more in reference to tight fairways versus wind I think.

I didn't watch a ton of the actual event but if they did do this, I can see why Chamblee made the comment.  Although he didn't say it in the tweet, his conclusion is still wrong as this was a specific case, instead of the overall case.

[GolfLug]

13 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I agree.  However, I'm very curious about his Justin Thomas comment because the trackman info shared last week after his SBS win showed that Thomas was not only hitting up, but was hitting up at like +4 degrees.

So was Chamblee just referring to one particular drive where Thomas was trying to hit a stinger under the wind or something else?  It doesn't add up.

Controversy is fine, but misinformation and/or lying not so much. :)

Not sure if one drive or a reflection on a windy course in general for all players and attempt to keep trajectory lower. I am pretty sure spin might still be same or even lower.

Yes, so I agree that being selective in sampling to fit one's narrative is one of the oldest and lamest trick in the book, IMO. Most informed folks will call him out immediately. Hence lame. Sometimes I think he does it to simply keep the 'discussion' ball rolling. There are plenty of folks who get all their facts and news from GC exclusively :-). In that sense he is certainly doing his job.

2 minutes ago, phillyk said:

I remember watching the Golf Channel before this Sony Open, and they were making the case that most players this week will hit with a "descending" blow to control their tee shots.  They said by taking 3/4 swings and putting the ball further back that players will hit the ball lower and with less side spin to hit more fairways.  It was more in reference to tight fairways versus wind I think.

I didn't watch a ton of the actual event but if they did do this, I can see why Chamblee made the comment.  Although he didn't say it in the tweet, his conclusion is still wrong as this was a specific case, instead of the overall case.

+1

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, phillyk said:

I remember watching the Golf Channel before this Sony Open, and they were making the case that most players this week will hit with a "descending" blow to control their tee shots.  They said by taking 3/4 swings and putting the ball further back that players will hit the ball lower and with less side spin to hit more fairways.  It was more in reference to tight fairways versus wind I think.

I didn't watch a ton of the actual event but if they did do this, I can see why Chamblee made the comment.  Although he didn't say it in the tweet, his conclusion is still wrong as this was a specific case, instead of the overall case.

I would totally buy that.  They spent a lot of time talking about how hard these fairways are to hit as well as how much harder it is to get close to the hole on these greens from the rough.  Not to mention, the course is only 7000 yards and has plenty of sharp doglegs.  It's not one where these guys are going to want to try to just bomb it every hole.

[boogielicious]

Maybe Brandel is the dog.

[Golfingdad]

Just dawned on me that he is actually talking about SBS and not Sony, aeeing as how there were 32 players in SBS field as opposed to 150 or whatever in Sony field.

That makes it even more perplexing, though, since all evidence about JT seemed to be to the contrary.

[krupa]

2 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Just dawned on me that he is actually talking about SBS and not Sony, aeeing as how there were 32 players in SBS field as opposed to 150 or whatever in Sony field.

That makes it even more perplexing, though, since all evidence about JT seemed to be to the contrary.

Pfft... evidence is for people who don't have strong opinions.

[MrDC]

I don't think it's all that controversial, watch most tour driver swings and it does not look like they are hitting up on the ball much at all, and until we hear another reason why Rory cracked that rib the extreme workouts are the culprit, so 1-up for Brandel.

Edited January 17, 2017 by MrDC

[nevets88]

Always learning something new from these exchanges. Who's Ford Schauf? Google not helpful.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, David in FL said:

He's a golf commentator.  It's his job to comment on golf related things.  So much the better if it also generates talk and even controversy, as that can lead to additional viewership.

Honestly, he doesn't bother me at all.

You also don't participate in the instruction realm much.

This would be like a tennis player saying something controversial or wrong: I wouldn't care much about that, either. It's not my arena.

2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

I agree.  However, I'm very curious about his Justin Thomas comment because the trackman info shared last week after his SBS win showed that Thomas was not only hitting up, but was hitting up at like +4 degrees.

So was Chamblee just referring to one particular drive where Thomas was trying to hit a stinger under the wind or something else?  It doesn't add up.

Controversy is fine, but misinformation and/or lying not so much. :)

There are tweets out there that suggest that Brandel misread a few of JT's numbers, namely, the horizontal launch or club path angle being negative, which we know means LEFT, not DOWN.

JT primarily hits up with his driver.

[mvmac]

I think Brandel has shared some good stuff recently regarding his thoughts on the swing but this one is way off.

Also most LPGA players have a positive AoA with the driver.

[David in FL]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

You also don't participate in the instruction realm much.

 

True.

[Pretzel]

5 hours ago, phillyk said:

I remember watching the Golf Channel before this Sony Open, and they were making the case that most players this week will hit with a "descending" blow to control their tee shots.  They said by taking 3/4 swings and putting the ball further back that players will hit the ball lower and with less side spin to hit more fairways.  It was more in reference to tight fairways versus wind I think.

I didn't watch a ton of the actual event but if they did do this, I can see why Chamblee made the comment.  Although he didn't say it in the tweet, his conclusion is still wrong as this was a specific case, instead of the overall case.

 

The problem with this statement is that hitting "down" on the ball doesn't reduce spin at all. Hitting "down" will only increase the spin, and is the reason that an ascending angle of attack will outperform one that is descending (higher launch and lower spin). 

The amount of "sidespin" is just a function of the spinrate and the spin axis. If all other conditions besides the AoA are kept equal, you'll see a higher spinrate and a lower launch, with the same spin axis, which would actually generate more "sidespin" than if they swung up through the ball with a positive AoA.

That being said, the shorter swings could be more controlled than usual swings and that could be possibly affecting the spin axis and subsequently reducing the apparent "sidespin" of the golf ball. It also could just cause shorter drives, which have less time to go offline and thus appear to have less "sidespin", which is another reasonable approach for tight fairways in the wind.

[Patch]

Chamblee could be the poster boy for those employees that make you want to know why they have kept their long term job for so long. I know when I stopped watching him, my hair started to grow back...........

[nevets88]

Whatever the case, controversy generates conversation and we get to glean from it. I thought Chamblee would be fighting a "two front war", not many responding to his McIlroy injury tweet yet, or don't see it in my social feeds.