How would you hit this shot? (high and low shots using same ball position)

[Rainmaker]

What if I told you to grab your 7 iron and . . 

1.  Set up like you're going to hit a high shot . .but don't actually hit it

2.  Without changing your set-up . .hit a low shot.  

Be as specific as possible.

[Hatchman]

1. Pedal to the metal with weight pushed down on front foot.

2. Abbreviated swing with hands leading a little more at contact, belt line more neutral position at finish.

3. No distance identified.  Just hitting low balls.

[Piz]

I spot my ball, about 150 out, on the opposite side of a "cart path only" hole.  Trusty 7 iron in hand, I cross the fairway.  Except it isn't my ball.  It is an imposter and my ball is resting some 20 yards further along.  Hmm...a 7 iron from 130.  A moment of informed observation is required.  In a trice I apprehend that the lie is satisfactory and elect to play a cut shot...and calculate the precise stance, ball position, and face angle required.  Drawing upon the well of past experience, I aim an energetic blow at a spot 1/8 inch behind the ball and, reminding myself to resist the impulse to close the face, swing extra hard...just in case.  However...due to a trick of the afternoon light,  the leading edge fails to nip the ball cleanly off the turf and, instead, meets it squarely on its equator...sending it, rocket like and quite low, into the dense underbrush to my right.  And that is how, after setting up to play a high shot with a 7 iron, I affected the opposite.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Piz
clarity

[David in FL]

Just out of curiosity, why?

Quite simply, I wouldn't "set up" to play one shot, and then intentionally hit another without making whatever adjustment that was appropriate.

[Rainmaker]

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

Just out of curiosity, why?

Quite simply, I wouldn't "set up" to play one shot, and then intentionally hit another without making whatever adjustment that was appropriate.

Right - you wouldn't actually play a shot like this.  Some golfers can control the loft they present at impact . .to borrow a phrase, I think, from Mark Crossfield . .they can control their dynamic loft.  Just curious how people who can do this do this.  

I could've just asked . .how do you control your dynamic loft . .but this example seemed more colorful, lol.

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Rainmaker

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

Right - you wouldn't actually play a shot like this.  Some golfers can control the loft they present at impact . .to borrow a phrase, I think, from Mark Crossfield . .they can control their dynamic loft.  Just curious how people who can do this do this.  

I could've just asked . .how do you control your dynamic loft . .but this example seemed more colorful, lol.

Easy, choke up the club by mistake and hit that shot too thin! Of course, this randomly happens to me at least once per round.

To do a "controlled" low shot I would setup nearer the back of my stance. If I needed to punch a shot I would also abbreviate the finish as well.

[Golfingdad]

4 hours ago, David in FL said:

Just out of curiosity, why?

Perhaps you're a really slow player like Jason Day and the tree in front of you that you were trying to go over grew in between the time you set up and the time you started your swing so you had to adjust? :P

Agree that it's an odd question, but just for poo and laughs, what I would do is basically fall/sway drastically towards the target during the downswing to get everything in front of the ball at impact ... and then to avoid actually falling, I'd have a very exaggerated Gary Player walk through finish.

[David in FL]

3 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

Right - you wouldn't actually play a shot like this.  Some golfers can control the loft they present at impact . .to borrow a phrase, I think, from Mark Crossfield . .they can control their dynamic loft.  Just curious how people who can do this do this.  

I could've just asked . .how do you control your dynamic loft . .but this example seemed more colorful, lol.

 

Much of controlling dynamic loft is in the setup itself.

I've always been a fan of this thread, and it provides a good example of my point...

 

[Golfingdad]

23 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Much of controlling dynamic loft is in the setup itself.

I've always been a fan of this thread, and it provides a good example of my point...

 

Great thread - and perfect timing for me as I needed a refresher.  Last couple of weeks I've been hitting my wedges higher than I'd like.

Also, entirely on-topic ... OP, check out this excerpt from @iacas's second post in that thread:

Quote

One little piece to add: when doing this it's not as important to achieve much secondary axis tilt, and sometimes I'll feel or even actually allow my head to move slightly forward during the downswing. I'll often set up with a little more weight on my left foot as well. If you do those two things, too, you may find you don't need to alter ball position at setup at all: you alter it by moving your upper rotational center forward a bit (your head being a reference point for the URC).

 

[natureboy]

4 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

I could've just asked . .how do you control your dynamic loft . .but this example seemed more colorful, lol.

If I were to do it, I'd focus on these elements:

• extra emphasis on forward weight shift / slide
• extreme hands ahead / de-lofting
• sawed off finish (low left intention with hands)
• more 'covering ball' feel with lower left shoulder through impact / FT & possibly slight upper body slide toward target (but the latter will likely change path slightly relative to target line)
• intentionally thin contact (hard for me to do consistently)

Edited January 19, 2017 by natureboy

[Rainmaker]

Interesting responses . . I've been trying to figure this out for a while . . not how to set-up one way and hit it another, lol . . but how to control the loft.  I messed around for a while with the amount of wrist-cock . .ie . .more wrist cock results in a lower shot...but I've gone away from that . .my teacher didn't like it, lol.  

What I've started to do - at his suggestion and I'm starting to feel it working . .is control when I flex the shaft.  Earlier in the downswing for a higher shot, later (and for longer) for a lower one.  It definitely seems to work well for the lower shots . .for the higher ones I'm still flirting with the occasional shank..but if I don't shank it I tend to get a higher shot.  None of this is course-ready . .just stuff I'm fooling around with in practice.  

I was just curious if anybody was going to mention anything like that . .ie . .flexing the shaft differently to get different shots.    

[Golfingdad]

15 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

is control when I flex the shaft.

I was just curious if anybody was going to mention anything like that . .ie . .flexing the shaft differently to get different shots.    

I don't even know what that means.

[Rainmaker]

17 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I don't even know what that means.

Yeah - that was my reaction at first . .but I thought about it for a bit . . . .and I started to realize that there's a place in my downswing where I'm applying a certain force.  If things are going right and the shaft is where it should be - this force gets applied to the shaft . .causing it to flex.  

If I apply this force early in the downswing and kind of quick . .like a short pulse . . then it has the effect of making my hands stop shorter ..I feel my hands are right at or even behind the ball at impact -and the clubhead comes up rather quickly after impact.  If I apply this force a bit later . .and hold it for a bit longer . .then it has the effect of driving my hands further forward...and I feel my hands are a bit in front of the ball at impact.  It makes a huge difference in shot height . .just a few minutes ago I was hitting 9 irons into the net in my garage - the low ones were hitting the net just a few feet up and the high ones were going up into the top of the net . .and a few shanks went into the garage wall . .as usual, lol.

[Golfingdad]

5 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Yeah - that was my reaction at first . .but I thought about it for a bit . . . .and I started to realize that there's a place in my downswing where I'm applying a certain force.  If things are going right and the shaft is where it should be - this force gets applied to the shaft . .causing it to flex.  

If I apply this force early in the downswing and kind of quick . .like a short pulse . . then it has the effect of making my hands stop shorter ..I feel my hands are right at or even behind the ball at impact -and the clubhead comes up rather quickly after impact.  If I apply this force a bit later . .and hold it for a bit longer . .then it has the effect of driving my hands further forward...and I feel my hands are a bit in front of the ball at impact.  It makes a huge difference in shot height . .just a few minutes ago I was hitting 9 irons into the net in my garage - the low ones were hitting the net just a few feet up and the high ones were going up into the top of the net . .and a few shanks went into the garage wall . .as usual, lol.

That seems awfully confusing and complicated.  Wouldn't it just be easier to move the ball back in your stance and take a 3/4 swing?  And if you really wanted to launch one high, just move it forward a bit, open the face a bit, and aim left a bit.

[Rainmaker]

8 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

That seems awfully confusing and complicated.  Wouldn't it just be easier to move the ball back in your stance and take a 3/4 swing?  And if you really wanted to launch one high, just move it forward a bit, open the face a bit, and aim left a bit.

Well . .yeah . . 

But I noticed the guys (and gals) who can really hit it can hit it high or low without changing ball position.  I just want to know how it's done  . .. I'll probably still just change the ball position in real life.  

[billchao]

17 hours ago, Rainmaker said:

What if I told you to grab your 7 iron and . . 

1.  Set up like you're going to hit a high shot . .but don't actually hit it

2.  Without changing your set-up . .hit a low shot.  

Be as specific as possible.

It really depends on how you define "low" because if you told me to do this, I'd just chip the ball.

If you want me to hit a shot using full swing mechanics, I hit flighted shots without adjusting my setup.

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Agree that it's an odd question, but just for poo and laughs, what I would do is basically fall/sway drastically towards the target during the downswing to get everything in front of the ball at impact ... and then to avoid actually falling, I'd have a very exaggerated Gary Player walk through finish.

This.

[Rainmaker]

Ha ha .. yes, full swing mechanics and no falling over or hitting it with the toe . .this is serious golf business.  . not a bar bet!  

I realize it's kind of an esoteric ..err.. goofy question . . . but it's definitely true that some golfers can hit it higher or lower without changing their set-up...whether it's necessary or not . .I'm still curious.