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      Introducing TST "Clubs!"   08/28/2017

      No, we're not getting into the equipment business, but we do have "clubs" here on TST now. Groups. Check them out here:

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Do you any of you know any solution if I want a 7* or 8* upright lie angle. I'm currently hitting 5* up and still hit toe heavy (a lot) on a lie board.

Before any of you criticize saying a golf club shouldn't be that upright, I'm going to say I'm a 6'5" using regular length shaft, I have a pretty solid one plane swing and if I use longer clubs I get too much mph in the ball and the back spin makes the ball sky rocket. 

I know forged clubs can't be bent that much. So do you know any golf compagnies doing that kind of "extreme" golf clubs?

Edited by ygmondoux

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6'5" isn't so tall there aren't established methods of fitting someone out there. You can also keep spin down with the proper shafts, etc.

I'd find a reputable good fitter. If you're in Montreal, there's a great one near Toronto. It's 5:30 or so, but you can make a day out of visiting it. I think moderngolf.ca?

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@iacas Thx for the info, I have a job to do in Toronto at the end of the month. Will definitely book a fitting. 

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I might ask are you gripping the club in your palms, or more in your fingers? My grandson is 6'8", and his clubs were fitted at 3* up. He grips the club more in his fingers. 

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59 minutes ago, Patch said:

I might ask are you gripping the club in your palms, or more in your fingers? My grandson is 6'8", and his clubs were fitted at 3* up. He grips the club more in his fingers. 

Palm grip and 10 fingers grip, It's not orthodox, but I got me to a pretty good and consistent swing. Even if I compensate for the club being to flat (the club dips behind me to flatten the path, I'm fighting a push most of the time. Here is my swing DTL I really have high hands at setup ( I setup for impact) my impact position is pretty much the same. 

I used to have a more orthodox swing, finger grip low hands. But what never changed is my impact position, whatever I did I always came with my hands very high at impact.

I always feel that club fitters are scared to think outside the box. They tend to follow the chart a bit too much. 

Edited by ygmondoux

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You've got a good looking swing..very solid.  Hopefully I can provide some insight that will help.

To answer your main question, no, I don't know of any company that makes irons that upright or who can bend irons that upright. You mentioned that hitting shots off a lie board indicates your clubs are too flat, but I'm curious as to what happens on the course or when hitting shots off the turf.  Do you lose your iron shots to the right, or do you hit them pretty straight?

The comment about your spin becoming excessive with longer clubs caught my attention.  First, it's good that you noticed this and realize the importance of having the correct spin.  But in my experience increasing the length of your irons .5" or 1" isn't going to increase your clubhead speed that much and cause shots to spin noticeably more.  I think there is other reasons why you experienced too much spin.  

There is a possibility that your shafts are too soft.  This can result in higher spin rates, especially if it's longer than standard length, and it will also cause the club to "toe down" during your downswing (also known as "toe droop") which would will make them appear to be too flat as well.

driver_droop_bending.jpg.926efd5e7aa69b9ca5e58a4623e8e82f.jpg

This is a driver, but the concept is the same.  I think it's important to mention that if you are playing standard length shafts because that's what fits you properly, then that's great.  Don't change.  If you are playing standard length shafts to keep your spin down, I would suggest considering some changes.

If your irons were 1" longer for example, they will play an additional 1* more upright.  They won't measure more upright, but they will play more upright.  If my hunch is correct, and your current shafts are too soft, a stiffer flex will eliminate some of the toe drop, so add that to a longer shaft and your clubs will play 2* more upright without having to bend them! 

The spin issue could be corrected a number of ways...again, shaft flex might be the root of this whole thing, and a stiffer flex will reduce the spin a bit, a lower spinning shaft, a lower spinning ball...all these things contribute to your spin rate.  Plus let's face it..you are a tall guy.  Tall guys tend to have upright swings which usually produce more spin.  And you're a tall guy with a very upright swing, so it doesn't surprise me that it's an issue.  The good news is there are several options that will help. Hopefully this makes sense, but if you have any questions please let me know!

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On 2/16/2017 at 0:15 PM, iacas said:

6'5" isn't so tall there aren't established methods of fitting someone out there. You can also keep spin down with the proper shafts, etc.

I'd find a reputable good fitter. If you're in Montreal, there's a great one near Toronto. It's 5:30 or so, but you can make a day out of visiting it. I think moderngolf.ca?

This ^. I read "The Search for the Perfect Golf Club", by Tom Wishon, noted club designer and fitter. Just because you're 6'5" does NOT mean you need longer clubs! He talked about fitting George Gervin, and some other NBA stars, for golf clubs. In some cases he actually had to fit them for shorter than standard clubs because their arms were so long! And these guys were 6'10" and 6'11"!

What a good clubfitter will do is get an accurate "wrist to floor" measurement, and go from there. The size of your hands doesn't matter except for grip size.

Edited by Buckeyebowman

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1 hour ago, Buckeyebowman said:

This ^. I read "The Search for the Perfect Golf Club", by Tom Wishon, noted club designer and fitter. Just because you're 6'5" does NOT mean you need longer clubs! He talked about fitting George Gervin, and some other NBA stars, for golf clubs. In some cases he actually had to fit them for shorter than standard clubs because their arms were so long! And these guys were 6'10" and 6'11"!

What a good clubfitter will do is get an accurate "wrist to floor" measurement, and go from there. The size of your hands doesn't matter except for grip size.

I talked with a club builder in Dallas who re-gripped a set for Cowboys defensive end Ed "Too Tall" Jones.  His hands were so big when he held a rocks glass you couldn't see it.

mans-hand-holding-glass-of-alcohol-with-ice.jpg.a9704fd0a8cf9a9f60891fb99f4602fa.jpg

He played Golf Pride Victory Jumbo grips with 10 extra wraps of tape.

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On 2/16/2017 at 8:38 AM, ygmondoux said:

Do you any of you know any solution if I want a 7* or 8* upright lie angle. I'm currently hitting 5* up and still hit toe heavy (a lot) on a lie board.

Another way to test your lie angle, in case you wanted to double check.

 

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On 2017-02-19 at 4:46 PM, 1badbadger said:

You've got a good looking swing..very solid.  Hopefully I can provide some insight that will help.

To answer your main question, no, I don't know of any company that makes irons that upright or who can bend irons that upright. You mentioned that hitting shots off a lie board indicates your clubs are too flat, but I'm curious as to what happens on the course or when hitting shots off the turf.  Do you lose your iron shots to the right, or do you hit them pretty straight?

The comment about your spin becoming excessive with longer clubs caught my attention.  First, it's good that you noticed this and realize the importance of having the correct spin.  But in my experience increasing the length of your irons .5" or 1" isn't going to increase your clubhead speed that much and cause shots to spin noticeably more.  I think there is other reasons why you experienced too much spin.  

There is a possibility that your shafts are too soft.  This can result in higher spin rates, especially if it's longer than standard length, and it will also cause the club to "toe down" during your downswing (also known as "toe droop") which would will make them appear to be too flat as well.

driver_droop_bending.jpg.926efd5e7aa69b9ca5e58a4623e8e82f.jpg

This is a driver, but the concept is the same.  I think it's important to mention that if you are playing standard length shafts because that's what fits you properly, then that's great.  Don't change.  If you are playing standard length shafts to keep your spin down, I would suggest considering some changes.

If your irons were 1" longer for example, they will play an additional 1* more upright.  They won't measure more upright, but they will play more upright.  If my hunch is correct, and your current shafts are too soft, a stiffer flex will eliminate some of the toe drop, so add that to a longer shaft and your clubs will play 2* more upright without having to bend them! 

The spin issue could be corrected a number of ways...again, shaft flex might be the root of this whole thing, and a stiffer flex will reduce the spin a bit, a lower spinning shaft, a lower spinning ball...all these things contribute to your spin rate.  Plus let's face it..you are a tall guy.  Tall guys tend to have upright swings which usually produce more spin.  And you're a tall guy with a very upright swing, so it doesn't surprise me that it's an issue.  The good news is there are several options that will help. Hopefully this makes sense, but if you have any questions please let me know!

Thx for your response @1badbadger I agree what what you said. And I will look into stiffer clubs as it might help me reduce spin too.

I went ahead to see a club fitter last Sunday, I got fitted with ping Maroon +1" but then again my spin was high 8500-9000 with a 7 iron on straight shots. 7500 - 8000 with a big draw and I was closing in on 100mph swing speed the result was a whooping ballon that landed 180 yards away. I had the tendency to hit left because I  developed the reflex on flipping the hands a bit early to keep it from going right (This might explain the extra spin too) and I have 2* too much launch angle

I'm thinking that maybe I can get used to that and launch lower and control de spin. I don't know if I would naturally be able to lower the launch not having to flip the hands early. 

Here is a video face-on where you can see the early flip I learned from playing ill fitted clubs. ( I'm thinking this is the reason why my irons are hot my driver is so off and vice versa.)

 

 I kinda lost... Could a proper fit fix it all? 

 

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3 hours ago, ygmondoux said:

Thx for your response @1badbadger I agree what what you said. And I will look into stiffer clubs as it might help me reduce spin too.

I went ahead to see a club fitter last Sunday, I got fitted with ping Maroon +1" but then again my spin was high 8500-9000 with a 7 iron on straight shots. 7500 - 8000 with a big draw and I was closing in on 100mph swing speed the result was a whooping ballon that landed 180 yards away. I had the tendency to hit left because I  developed the reflex on flipping the hands a bit early to keep it from going right (This might explain the extra spin too) and I have 2* too much launch angle

I'm thinking that maybe I can get used to that and launch lower and control de spin. I don't know if I would naturally be able to lower the launch not having to flip the hands early. 

Here is a video face-on where you can see the early flip I learned from playing ill fitted clubs. ( I'm thinking this is the reason why my irons are hot my driver is so off and vice versa.)

 

 I kinda lost... Could a proper fit fix it all? 

 

I'm not an expert on the golf swing...there are other guys here who know more about it than me. My expertise is on the equipment side of the game, but I've seen a lot of swings over the years and you're doing a lot of things right.  Very nice looking swing.

I'm wondering about a couple things.  Maroon dot used to be 5* upright, but now it's 4.5* up, add another 1* for the extra inch and those irons should be playing 5.5* up. Your current irons are 5* up and toe-heavy on a lie board.  If irons are too flat, it's hard to hit big 'ol hooks, so that's an indication that the lie angle is upright enough...7 to 8* might be too much.  It's also a little surprising that you are launching the ball 2* higher than ideal with a draw/hook. From the video it looked like the shaft is kicking too soon, which could add loft and or spin.

You mentioned you were hitting the 7 iron 180 yds with a ballooning trajectory.  What is your typical distance with a 7 ir on a solid shot?  And your swing speed with a 7 ir is almost 100 mph, correct?  I couldn't help but notice you were hitting mostly straight shots and draw shots, but no fades which is what I would have expected.  If you weren't leaking shots to the right, it's another indication the clubs are not too flat.  And the tendency to hit big hooks, high launch and excess spin make me think the shaft is too soft. Based on the information you provided, that is probably what's going on.  Yes, a good clubfitter can get you into a set of irons that will correct those issues.

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On 2017-02-21 at 9:24 PM, 1badbadger said:

I'm not an expert on the golf swing...there are other guys here who know more about it than me. My expertise is on the equipment side of the game, but I've seen a lot of swings over the years and you're doing a lot of things right.  Very nice looking swing.

I'm wondering about a couple things.  Maroon dot used to be 5* upright, but now it's 4.5* up, add another 1* for the extra inch and those irons should be playing 5.5* up. Your current irons are 5* up and toe-heavy on a lie board.  If irons are too flat, it's hard to hit big 'ol hooks, so that's an indication that the lie angle is upright enough...7 to 8* might be too much.  It's also a little surprising that you are launching the ball 2* higher than ideal with a draw/hook. From the video it looked like the shaft is kicking too soon, which could add loft and or spin.

You mentioned you were hitting the 7 iron 180 yds with a ballooning trajectory.  What is your typical distance with a 7 ir on a solid shot?  And your swing speed with a 7 ir is almost 100 mph, correct?  I couldn't help but notice you were hitting mostly straight shots and draw shots, but no fades which is what I would have expected.  If you weren't leaking shots to the right, it's another indication the clubs are not too flat.  And the tendency to hit big hooks, high launch and excess spin make me think the shaft is too soft. Based on the information you provided, that is probably what's going on.  Yes, a good clubfitter can get you into a set of irons that will correct those issues.

@1badbadger

I've developed a in to out swing to flatten the swing since I've been playing standard clubs until last year. I think that's why I hook a toe heavy club. 

You are right 7* up seems way too much. I thought 1"+ = 2*up. 5.5* should be enough.  So I'm not off by much.  But I hit my 5* toe heavy... maybe they aren't really 5up (Ping i3 maroon but bought off eBay ne shows silver under the maroon (homemade?), but they are no doubt at least 3*up. (I will need to give it a check)

With a standard length iron I have 94-96 mph with 7 iron. Gives my a 175 carry still a bit too much spin. I'd like a 180 more penetrating flight at 7000-7300RPM 

As to shaft flex I never gave it a second thought, since I always played Stiff. Now that I think about it I think you are 100% right, might kick in too soon and accentuate face angle at impact. I'll change my shaft for sure this year as I play X in my driver and 3 wood. 

Thanks 1badbadger for enlightening me!

 

 

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2 hours ago, ygmondoux said:

@1badbadger

I've developed a in to out swing to flatten the swing since I've been playing standard clubs until last year. I think that's why I hook a toe heavy club. 

You are right 7* up seems way too much. I thought 1"+ = 2*up. 5.5* should be enough.  So I'm not off by much.  But I hit my 5* toe heavy... maybe they aren't really 5up (Ping i3 maroon but bought off eBay ne shows silver under the maroon (homemade?), but they are no doubt at least 3*up. (I will need to give it a check)

With a standard length iron I have 94-96 mph with 7 iron. Gives my a 175 carry still a bit too much spin. I'd like a 180 more penetrating flight at 7000-7300RPM 

As to shaft flex I never gave it a second thought, since I always played Stiff. Now that I think about it I think you are 100% right, might kick in too soon and accentuate face angle at impact. I'll change my shaft for sure this year as I play X in my driver and 3 wood. 

Thanks 1badbadger for enlightening me!

 

 

My pleasure.  If you have any other questions, or you hear conflicting information somewhere else, let me know and I'll be glad to help.

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Newbie to the forum here. I'm 6'7 and 54 yrs old. I've been playing since I was about 7 yrs old. I lived on a golf course growing up, so lots of playing time. I've had periods where I didn't play for maybe 5 years on and off. Lately, being one of those periods. My son is 14 and 5'10, and hits a perfect little draw every time he swings. He's decided he's done with basketball (for now?) and wants to get back into golf. So I dusted my bags off, and we've been hitting the range together. My son's long time golf coach says that he could make the JV golf team right now. I started him when he was 4 yrs old. We'll be playing a twilight 18 (maybe) tomorrow afternoon. 

For me being so tall has it's draw backs. No off the shelf irons being one of them. I have friends who were golf touring pros and caddies who have given me advice about club fitting for very tall guys. None of them are over 6' though. My neighbor worked for a golf & tennis club manufacturer. He said they could make me some graphite shaft clubs that would be 1-1/2" over in length. So I ordered some. They were better than the DCI's I had, but I hit the 2 iron 230 yds and the 8 iron 185 yds. I had 3 wedges to try to cover my shorter game. The driver didn't even fit under my bag cover. It was such a noodle. I could hit it a mile anywhere but the fairway. 

One day (in my late 20's) I did a walk on with a guy who was my height and build, and was a collegiate player and scratch golfer. I hit his clubs and it was a moment of clarity for me. He had forged Mitzuno blades that were +6 upright, and 1" over Riffle shafts. The next day I went to to Custom Golf Shop in Orange, Ca and talked to Bill Ore about it. He said Mitzuno's blades have a very high quality ( malleable steel ). A lot of other forged clubs would end up with cracked hosels and cast clubs would just break. I bought a used set of MP14's and had Bill build them with Rifle shafts. +6 upright (though he did some different because of the steep loft on the shorter clubs) and 1" over (9 thru SW the same length). I hit them solid for years. I've had to have some of the lies re-bent because the steel has memory. Years later at a Golf tournament, I asked Phil Blackmar who's 6'5 and was commentating on the golf course, how he had his clubs built. He said, 1" over and 3 or 4 degrees upright. He said he has long arms and low hands, so he didn't need them as upright as others. 

Maybe 10 years ago, I too bought a set of custom cavity back Ping I's with the Maroon lies 4.5 upright, 1.5" over online for a steal. I thought they might be a little more forgiving than my blades:) I started playing worse and worse. I gave them a good 4 months of adjustment time, and to no avail. One day I grab my old blades and my pings a took them both to the range. Ping 7 iron, sprayed right then left. My MP14 7 iron, just pure smooth right at the target. Same with the rest of the clubs. Sold the Ping's online the next day. Now almost 25 years later, I'm still playing my custom MP14's. At 54 I'm feeling a little less flexible, and not hitting my irons as far or consistently. I know I need some months of regaining my stroke again, but just wondering do other companies now make cast clubs that are more upright 'off the shelf'? Or do the newer MP blades play some much better that I should consider a newer custom build? 

Edited by 4right
Mispelldd

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I'd say think more about yourself and maybe not so much about the clubs. You are now 54, and you are going to begin losing clubhead speed. It happens to all of us, no matter how tall we are or how large our swing arc is!

Sounds like you found a formula that works for you. I'd stick with that. Or, that formula figuring in your current clubhead speed.

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Thanks Buckeye. I'm sure I've slowed a bit, and I need to just play the rust off my game. I did check the lies on my MP14 irons and they off by 2 to 3 degrees. It's been probably 6 or 7 years since I checked them. I'm going to do a lie swing test on to see where I actually should be, then have them adjusted. I searched online and it looks like the Mitzuno's are about my only option for a 6 degree upright lie. 

BTW, I always have a buckeye on my desk that my father in law gave me. He was a Buckeye as well. 

Edited by 4right

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9 hours ago, inthecup said:

I would give Henry Griffits a call.  

If a company was able to make extreme clubs it would be them.

Henry Griffits

Thanks' for the tip.

I took a look at their fitting process. It's very thorough. After all that precision fitting and club building, I'd still end up with a blade. Their cavity back irons are more than likely cast like everyone else. My custom club builder Bill Orr had an off brand of forged cavity backed irons that he could comfortably bend upright 6 degrees. I had him build my dad a set. I've played with them, but they are regular flex Dynamic Gold shafts, so I wasn't as accurate with them as my MP14's with 6.0 Rifle shafts. Exact same length and lie as mine. Who knows, maybe some day I'll be playing my dads?

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