Modernized Rules Discussion: When to Play During a Round

[iacas]

This is for the discussion of this portion of the new Modernized Rules.

When to Play During a Round

Encouraging Prompt Pace of Play

Maximum Score Form of Stroke Play

[Shooting29]

I love both of these. Not only encouraging faster play but maximum score will keep people moving too. 

I played a tournament where the course was exclusive and lots of people signed up just to play the course. There were many scores well over 100 and one score of 168. This was from the forward tees. It was just too penal a course for players of lower skill. Maximum score would have helped it not be a 6.5hr round.

[iacas]

I have no issue with these Rules (so long as we're talking about JUST these two Rules). The US Kids Golf Tour events limit scores to 10 already, so this would make it "legal" in terms of the actual Rules of Golf.

40 seconds, well, people aren't going to be timing each other all that often, but if a player is historically slow, then that will come in handy and give players a legit tool to penalize or encourage the slow guy to speed up.

40 seconds is a long time.

[djfajt71]

9 minutes ago, iacas said:

40 seconds is a long time.

That's what I tell my wife all the time!!  Oh sorry, off topic!!

[ZappyAd]

I'm not sure that the max score or ready golf ideas will do that much to speed up play in the real world.  Most of the pace-challenged golfers that I get stuck behind don't seem to be that bothered about their score.  They just want to get that ball in the hole however long it takes - people will still hit as many strokes as it takes and then just 'mark it down as a 10'!

There just isn't an incentive to play at a decent pace if you don't want to - if you are happy taking 6 hours for a round then it isn't strict adherence to the rules of golf that is slowing you down.  It may look good as a headline to say the rules are being changed to speed up golf and address one of the top complaints people have about the game, but how much difference is it really going to make?

Only the course owners can make a difference here imo by monitoring pace and resolving any hold ups.

[Shooting29]

Maybe it won't speed up casual play but I was talking about tournament play. If the committee says for all non scratch divisions when you reach triple bogey you must pick up regardless of where you are on the hole it will most definitely speed up play.

[DaveP043]

7 minutes ago, Shooting29 said:

Maybe it won't speed up casual play but I was talking about tournament play. If the committee says for all non scratch divisions when you reach triple bogey you must pick up regardless of where you are on the hole it will most definitely speed up play.

I'm not sure that the Committe couldn't do this before, it simply wasn't a USGA sanctioned format of play.  It certainly could speed up play, but limiting hole scores could also effect the results.  

[iacas]

1 hour ago, ZappyAd said:

I'm not sure that the max score or ready golf ideas will do that much to speed up play in the real world.  Most of the pace-challenged golfers that I get stuck behind don't seem to be that bothered about their score.  They just want to get that ball in the hole however long it takes - people will still hit as many strokes as it takes and then just 'mark it down as a 10'!

I think it will speed up play. It helps in US Kids Golf events.

53 minutes ago, Shooting29 said:

Maybe it won't speed up casual play but I was talking about tournament play. If the committee says for all non scratch divisions when you reach triple bogey you must pick up regardless of where you are on the hole it will most definitely speed up play.

Yep, I wonder if they can require you to pick up once you reach the maximum?

[Fourputt]

It will be a tough sell for a lot of players, because they feel that they paid for a full round and that's what they plan to get.  It's one reason why even when playing match play, most players still finish out the hole even after it is lost.  Also, unless these changes help to improve pace of play, we are still usually going to be waiting, so why worry about how many strokes you take when you will just be waiting on the next tee anyway?  

I see a bit of a learning curve for integrating whatever changes are finalized.  I also see the possibility for further modifications after the first cycle of use in real play.

[bkuehn1952]

Our club has used the "10 Stroke" maximum for a number of years in our tournaments  We have players ranging from scratch to 36 handicap.  I do not know of a single instance where any of the 200+ members has insisted on continuing play or complained about being limited to 10 strokes a hole. 

[No Mulligans]

Wouldn't a maximum score per hole screw up the handicapping/strokes given in a round?  It would certainly benefit the average high handicap player when playing against a better/low handicap player.  Eliminate the blow up scores and the high handicap player could have a significantly lower score for the round.

[DeadMan]

I love both of these changes. I already practice maximum score in my non tournament rounds (I'll generally pick up after triple bogey if I'm causing a slow down). It will be great to play in a stroke play event and let people pick up when they're going to get a 10 or whatever instead of DQing themselves. I also love that committees will have to address pace of play from now on. Just getting people to think about it will help.

14 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

Wouldn't a maximum score per hole screw up the handicapping/strokes given in a round?  It would certainly benefit the average high handicap player when playing against a better/low handicap player.  Eliminate the blow up scores and the high handicap player could have a significantly lower score for the round.

The proposed rule allows you to set a maximum net score. You could do a net 8 or net 10 and that would basically eliminate that. You can/should also flight the tournament to prevent something like this.

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

Wouldn't a maximum score per hole screw up the handicapping/strokes given in a round?  It would certainly benefit the average high handicap player when playing against a better/low handicap player.  Eliminate the blow up scores and the high handicap player could have a significantly lower score for the round.

Not really going to be a problem I don't think.

@DeadMan answered while I was typing. What he said.

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Our club has used the "10 Stroke" maximum for a number of years in our tournaments  We have players ranging from scratch to 36 handicap.  I do not know of a single instance where any of the 200+ members has insisted on continuing play or complained about being limited to 10 strokes a hole. 

Although I'm in favor of playing tournament rounds to the bitter end, regardless of the number of strokes, I don't think that it makes a big difference for most players anyway.  I can only recall one tournament where it would have affected me, and then only on one hole.  I took a 12 on a par 5 hole in the club championship back in 1991.  That is the only tournament hole in more than 25 years of tournament play that I can recall taking more than a 10 (and I can only think of one hole where I made a 10, and that and the 12 were consecutive holes in the same round).  

So it isn't a big deal, as most high handicappers don't even make a lot of scores over 10 - they usually just make a lot of double and triple bogies.

[bkuehn1952]

37 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Although I'm in favor of playing tournament rounds to the bitter end, regardless of the number of strokes, I don't think that it makes a big difference for most players anyway...

I agree with you that in the case of tournaments that carry some weight (Championship flight in a Club Championship, State Amateurs, etc...) playing every shot, even if it the 15th one, is important.  Our events have enough hackers that we might never finish without the "10 shot" rule.

Another benefit is to the other players.  I had to watch a fellow competitor card a "15" on the first hole of the City Championship one year.  It would have been nice if he could have just taken the "10" and let us finish the hole.

[David in FL]

Although I'm pretty militant when it comes to pace of play, I'm strangely ambivalent about these 2.  I really don't think they'll speed up the pace of the average group on the course.  Slow play is, and will continue to be caused by slow players.  Requiring (good luck with actual enforcement) that they play a shot within a certain period of time, acomplishes little when their overall sense of urgency to play quickly hasn't really changed.

I understand the thought process, and I'm not opposed to the change, but I just don't think that it'll help.  I hope I'm wrong.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Although I'm pretty militant when it comes to pace of play, I'm strangely ambivalent about these 2.  I really don't think they'll speed up the pace of the average group on the course.  Slow play is, and will continue to be caused by slow players.  Requiring (good luck with actual enforcement) that they play a shot within a certain period of time, acomplishes little when their overall sense of urgency to play quickly hasn't really changed.

I understand the thought process, and I'm not opposed to the change, but I just don't think that it'll help.  I hope I'm wrong.

It's almost all they could do. At least now faster players playing with slower players will have grounds to penalize the slow player. Committees now have a framework to apply.

[Rulesman]

19 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

Wouldn't a maximum score per hole screw up the handicapping/strokes given in a round?  It would certainly benefit the average high handicap player when playing against a better/low handicap player.  Eliminate the blow up scores and the high handicap player could have a significantly lower score for the round.

Stableford effectively has a cut off at net double bogey. ie when no points are scored.

The European and GB handicap systems ignore strokes over net double bogey.