USGA's Davis Floats Idea of Reduced Distance Balls

[Hatchman]

Take the long ball out of sports and you lose a little wow public appeal factor.  But the skill of the well hit or placed short shot is impressive to me and a studied art.  Leave as is.

[caniac6]

Mabye the USGA just needs to admit that the athleticism of the golfers and the equipment has made some courses obsolete. Those courses are not obsolete to the members. Time marches on.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 3/13/2017 at 11:28 PM, Denny Bang Bang said:

Why not just bust out the hickory sticks as well...

Good point! Golfers used to play a ball that was, as David Feherty put it, "a ram's testicle stuffed with boiled gannet feathers"! Then there was Gutta Percha, the Haskell ball, then the wound ball with a balata cover! How could anything get better than that?

And there were hickory shafts, which were the very clubs I first started batting around the back yard, Oh, how I loved that old "mashie-niblick"! Then came steel. And there were experiments with fiberglass and aluminum shafts until carbon fiber was developed.

Technology is what it is, and it will always advance. Consider what we do here. We could spend our time penning letters to each other with quill or fountain pens. Instead we type on a keyboard, push a button, and send our message around the world in an eyeblink!

[1badbadger]

I wouldn't mind seeing some other tournament where they put a limited flight ball in play, but not our National Championship...it's too important of an event to be experimenting with stuff like that.

[CarlSpackler]

This is a stupid, stupid idea. That is all. 

[Jack Watson]

I wish they would rollback the equipment some and the ball should spin more and be reduced a bit for pros.  In baseball they don't use aluminum bats in the pros.

Let amateurs play anything but make pros play with less forgiving equipment.  The game has become bomb and gouge.

I would much rather watch the pros play this way and the courses would play much better.

The driver heads are way way too big and the ball is so long now.

Modern golf tends to be pretty boring it should not be so easy for them to swing out of their shoes off practically every tee also let the rough grow.

 

[jamo]

It seems to me that this would have been something to look at a decade and a half ago when golf balls were changing leaps and bounds. The golf ball is pretty stable right now.

[iacas]

On 3/23/2017 at 11:38 PM, Jack Watson said:

I wish they would rollback the equipment some and the ball should spin more and be reduced a bit for pros.  In baseball they don't use aluminum bats in the pros.

"Baseball" is not under one set of rules at all levels.

On 3/23/2017 at 11:38 PM, Jack Watson said:

Let amateurs play anything but make pros play with less forgiving equipment.  The game has become bomb and gouge.

Amateurs play PGA Tour events, U.S. Opens, British Opens, mini tour events, etc. Many are better than "pros." PGA pros at clubs or instructors are sometimes 5, 6 handicappers. Or higher.

On 3/23/2017 at 11:38 PM, Jack Watson said:

Let amateurs play anything but make pros play with less forgiving equipment.  The game has become bomb and gouge.

So instead of a short knocker hitting a 7-iron to a green and a bomber hitting wedge, you're going to have the short guy hitting 5-iron and the long guy hitting 8-iron?

What have you solved?

Length has always been an advantage. Nicklaus was long, and did quite well because of it.

On 3/23/2017 at 11:38 PM, Jack Watson said:

The driver heads are way way too big and the ball is so long now.

The ball was always long. The ODS hasn't changed. They just managed to make the long ball also spin on shorter shots around the greens.

[ZappyAd]

Could they build a ball where the marginal benefit of increased club head speed at impact decreases beyond a certain point?  So up to 110mph you get roughly 2 yards extra distance per extra mph but beyond that you get less and less for every extra mph.  That way everyone uses the same ball and amateurs still get the same distance they do now but the top end is clipped.

We don't use the absolute best tech that there is, we use the best tech that fits within the rules laid down by whoever (e.g. Max driver head size and COR).  I don't know much about golf balls but I bet there are people out there that could create all sorts of ball performance characteristics if the rules demanded it and it wouldn't have to eliminate long hitting but rather throttle it back at the extremes. 

[iacas]

54 minutes ago, ZappyAd said:

Could they build a ball where the marginal benefit of increased club head speed at impact decreases beyond a certain point?  So up to 110mph you get roughly 2 yards extra distance per extra mph but beyond that you get less and less for every extra mph.

How would that be fair?

[Hardspoon]

1 hour ago, ZappyAd said:

Could they build a ball where the marginal benefit of increased club head speed at impact decreases beyond a certain point?  So up to 110mph you get roughly 2 yards extra distance per extra mph but beyond that you get less and less for every extra mph.  That way everyone uses the same ball and amateurs still get the same distance they do now but the top end is clipped.

Sure, they probably COULD, but it doesn't mean they would (or should).  Engineering to an absolute limit (like the COR limit) is one thing - you set a top-end, and the manufacturers all work right up to it and try to make other improvements that gain distance.  Trying to engineer a ball that would be tailored to swing speed would be overly complicated.

Also, how do you choose 110?  Why not 109?  Or 108?

[Spooky]

I want my balata back.....

[CarlSpackler]

We need to impose a height limit on basketball players too...

Just because y'all fell inferior to pro golfers doesn't mean that technology or rules should limit them.

[Jack Watson]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

"Baseball" is not under one set of rules at all levels.

Amateurs play PGA Tour events, U.S. Opens, British Opens, mini tour events, etc. Many are better than "pros." PGA pros at clubs or instructors are sometimes 5, 6 handicappers. Or higher.

So instead of a short knocker hitting a 7-iron to a green and a bomber hitting wedge, you're going to have the short guy hitting 5-iron and the long guy hitting 8-iron?

What have you solved?

Length has always been an advantage. Nicklaus was long, and did quite well because of it.

The ball was always long. The ODS hasn't changed. They just managed to make the long ball also spin on shorter shots around the greens.

The main thing is in the Nicklaus era and before more precision was needed to hit long due to the equipment.  Great driving absolutely separated the best from the rest.  The best could hit their lines and keep  spin off the ball so it would get out there.

Everyone on tour bombs it far now with the giant clubheads they can't miss.  They swing out of their shoes and aren't penalized as much for mishits.

If they still played a spinner ball and less large clubheads it would make the game more about striking and less about putting.

 

 

[caniac6]

4 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

The main thing is in the Nicklaus era and before more precision was needed to hit long due to the equipment.  Great driving absolutely separated the best from the rest.  The best could hit their lines and keep  spin off the ball so it would get out there.

Everyone on tour bombs it far now with the giant clubheads they can't miss.  They swing out of their shoes and aren't penalized as much for mishits.

If they still played a spinner ball and less large clubheads it would make the game more about striking and less about putting.

 

 

That idea probably doesn't sound too good to a guy that is a great putter.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

If they still played a spinner ball and less large clubheads it would make the game more about striking and less about putting.

But it's not really about putting. Putting is statistically one of the least important categories. Ball striking reigns supreme - hitting the ball far and accurately off the tee (20 yards gains as many strokes as an extra 1° of directional improvement) and then hitting the greens and getting the ball closer to the hole with your irons.

Both of those matter more individually than putting.

Heck, look here, too:

Their putting pales in comparison to the other stats. And that year wasn't really an outlier.

[Jack Watson]

It's hard to argue against stats but take for example Lefty vs Stenson at the open.  Henriks putter got him the win.  Stats are accumulated over a time period,  but in one round on tour it often seems like getting hot with the putter is the difference.  It seems like watching Spieth at the Masters that he holes a lot of crucial putts.  In 1986 at the Masters final round Jack made some awesome putts.  At the pro level these days it seems like they all get a lot of birdie looks and it just seems like guys who are hot with the putter do better.  I can't really back this up with stats.  To me some putts are more important than others which statistically makes no sense at all!  (Talking pro level golf)

My personal experience as a recreational golfer is opposite.  I don't really practice putting at all and if I do it's just before a round from 2-6 feet and maybe a couple lags.  My five minutes a day is based on ballstriking.  Putting for my game tends to stay about the same all the time.  Also the more I practice putting the worse I get but that's another story   I've noticed the more gir I get the better I score so it's way more important for me to keep the tee shot in play and be able to be decent with the iron accuracy.

I saw a few years ago Snedeker played vintage gear and shot 80 I think.  On the tour now is a par five really a par five anymore?  

I like the idea of going back to wood woods or something similar and a ball with similar characteristics as the wound balata.  I think if we keep it like it is now so many of the courses  are defenseless.  Really we would have to build new courses with new dimensions to accommodate the distances now.  Look what these guys do now on par fives. It's like if they don't at least birdie they have lost a shot,  is that really a par five? I would like to see what a true par five would look like for a pro now,  would it need to be seven hundred yards?  

If the equipment was rolled back you have way less land needed and less maintenance costs  and less water used.  It would be more 'green'.

For the average golfer let them use all the advantages and still tee it forward.  More fun!

Theoretical question for a pro...Would a ball like a balata make it easier for pros to get close from say 160 and in?

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Jack Watson

[1badbadger]

22 hours ago, ZappyAd said:

Could they build a ball where the marginal benefit of increased club head speed at impact decreases beyond a certain point?  So up to 110mph you get roughly 2 yards extra distance per extra mph but beyond that you get less and less for every extra mph.  That way everyone uses the same ball and amateurs still get the same distance they do now but the top end is clipped.

We don't use the absolute best tech that there is, we use the best tech that fits within the rules laid down by whoever (e.g. Max driver head size and COR).  I don't know much about golf balls but I bet there are people out there that could create all sorts of ball performance characteristics if the rules demanded it and it wouldn't have to eliminate long hitting but rather throttle it back at the extremes. 

 

20 hours ago, Spooky said:

I want my balata back.....

Making a golf ball that is longer could be done very easily if the specifications set by the USGA were lifted, without developing any new, breakthrough technology  Simply making a ball slightly smaller and a little heavier could add 20-30 yards with no other changes.  To make a ball that limited how far it went for fast swingers but not for slower swingers would be pretty tough. Even if it was possible, to limit performance for certain players because they are stronger or have more swing speed than others would be like making Walter Payton or Tony Dorsett wear ankle weights because they ran faster than everyone else.  I think it would be possible to make a ball like that, but I don't agree with the reasoning.

Spooky, trust me...you don't want your balata back.  I really think people remember the old balata balls fondly, and wish they could find that feel and spin again, but compared to what is available now...balata sucks.  They would get knocked out of round, they would lose compression, they spun too much, and if you looked at them the wrong way the cover would cut.  I think if there was a way for players to hit the old balatas after playing solid-core balls for 15-17 yrs, most guys would go ew, how did I ever like that?  

4 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

 

Theoretical question for a pro...Would a ball like a balata make it easier for pros to get close from say 160 and in?

 

I honestly don't think so.  Balata balls spun way too much, they were inconsistent, they weren't always as round as they should be and I'm sure modern grooves would shred the cover.  The big thing is the spin...it's harder to control the trajectory and distance with that much excessive spin.