Lexi Thompson's 4 Stroke Penalty at the ANA

[Hat]

4 minutes ago, RH31 said:

I only went back a couple of pages, sorry if this has already been posted.

Golf looks bad because it let someone outside of tournament jurisdiction dictate the outcome of a major championship.

Imagine how much more ridiculous the LPGA would've looked if the caller/emailer waited until Lexi was on the 18th hole??? She would've finished her round, everyone would've thought she won and ooops, hold on a sec we've just received an email.....

It's real simple just stop receiving, reacting, to any outside video information.

So now we'd all be happy seeing replays of the rules violation which won Lexi a tournament, because no one could report it?

[sirhacksalot]

This may have been covered already, I skimmed a few pages, but have not read the whole thread.  But once a trophy is given is it done? Or will there be people now searching the entirety of the history of televised golf to identify infractions that may change the results.

[808hacker]

>Would it have been better if she won the tournament, then this person posted on a public forum that she "cheated" to win?

Yes, because that's what happens in almost every major sport on television - IFAIK she didn't have the intention to cheat. There's always some person saying the referee cheated or there was  bad call over and over. Where does the infraction occur? 1 mm 1/2 mm ??? Even if it is spelled out, it's not right that someone can call in and do something like this. Go ahead and call in to an NFL championship and complain about a call? Call into a NBA championship and argue that you saw a foul. It doesn't happen.

Where can we call/write to change the ability to call in to change a course of a championship? I'd rather change that then the flag rule  and other rule changes.

Why stop here? Every single time someone hits OB and replaces their mark - take an angle measurement and see if they put it in the "same" place. I bet they don't. They eyeball it.

There are many things I dislike about golf, but TV viewers calling in is at the top for me.

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Take three hypothetical golfers that committed the same penalty, one assessed her own penalty, one didn't notice the violation and was assessed after the round, and one cheated on purpose but her violation was noticed before her 18 hole round was over.  A & C get two strokes, and B gets 4.

Does that still seem reasonable?

No.

The golfer who assessed her own penalty and then signed her card: two strokes and she's fine to play on.

The golfer who didn't notice (let's call her Lexi): four strokes in total for violating two rules, and she's fine to play on.

The golfer who cheated on purposes and didn't write her score down: she's DQed when the breach is discovered (unless she also lies about how she didn't know it was a penalty, or that she'd done it, and they believe her and only assess her the additional two for an incorrect scorecard).

11 minutes ago, RH31 said:

Golf looks bad because it let someone outside of tournament jurisdiction dictate the outcome of a major championship.

No, golf looks bad because Lexi didn't follow the rules.

Golf would look WAY worse if she won but was found to have violated the rules and not been penalized, and even worse than that if the committee was made aware of it but chose not to act and covered it up.

11 minutes ago, RH31 said:

Imagine how much more ridiculous the LPGA would've looked if the caller/emailer waited until Lexi was on the 18th hole??? She would've finished her round, everyone would've thought she won and ooops, hold on a sec we've just received an email…

They'd really be running the risk that nobody would see it before the competition closed.

11 minutes ago, RH31 said:

It's real simple just stop receiving, reacting, to any outside video information.

You do get that a caddie, a spectator, a fellow competitor, a rules official assigned to another group or off-duty, a camera man, etc. are all "outside information" too, right?

And that "outside video information" can HELP players, too: it can help them locate a ball that would otherwise be lost (Rory, Kiawah Island) and help in other ways, too.

2 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

This may have been covered already, I skimmed a few pages, but have not read the whole thread.  But once a trophy is given is it done? Or will there be people now searching the entirety of the history of televised golf to identify infractions that may change the results.

Close of competition shuts the door on almost all such things, yes.

[Lihu]

5 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

This may have been covered already, I skimmed a few pages, but have not read the whole thread.  But once a trophy is given is it done? Or will there be people now searching the entirety of the history of televised golf to identify infractions that may change the results.

Regardless of what is found in past tournaments, it would be bad for the player to be found to have had these violations. It hurts their reputations.

In this case, I think Lexi's reputations was saved for another day and probably forever. Honestly, she couldn't have missed the putt anyway. . .

[Dave2512]

6 minutes ago, Hat said:

So now we'd all be happy seeing replays of the rules violation which won Lexi a tournament, because no one could report it?

Probably not but it seems the issue is the tours need to come up with a way to close the door on after the event info spotted in replays. This happens to be more cut and dried than others and people seem to be stuck on the timing and intention. But there has been other replay penalties that were less obvious, players moving blades of wetland grass in hazards etc. Things players may not be aware of.

[808hacker]

>So now we'd all be happy seeing replays of the rules violation which won Lexi a tournament, because no one could report it?

No, it would be just like any other major championship for other sports - guess what? People still live their lives afterwards. Why don't we go back and look at every single mark every play made in major championships and if we find something call them cheaters. There are plenty of bad calls to see over time. This doesn't diminish the players that won.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, 808hacker said:

Yes, because that's what happens in almost every major sport on television

Enough of the "other sports" stuff. Golf isn't other sports.

2 minutes ago, 808hacker said:

Where does the infraction occur? 1 mm 1/2 mm ???

It occurs well before the distance she moved her ball. Nobody (I've seen) is saying she didn't break the original rule…

2 minutes ago, 808hacker said:

Where can we call/write to change the ability to call in to change a course of a championship? I'd rather change that then the flag rule  and other rule changes.

The fact that this wasn't addressed at all shows fairly strongly that I think the USGA/R&A don't consider this type of stuff to be a problem or in need of "modernization."

2 minutes ago, 808hacker said:

Why stop here? Every single time someone hits OB and replaces their mark - take an angle measurement and see if they put it in the "same" place. I bet they don't. They eyeball it.

They get significantly closer than Lexi did. What she did violated the rules. Nobody asks for 1/2mm precision, but she was well past even any grey area.

But seriously, no more "other sports" comparisons. They don't fly. The players are responsible for knowing and following the rules in golf, not trying to get away with as much as they can without being called. It's completely different.

[808hacker]

>You do get that a caddie, a spectator, a fellow competitor, a rules official assigned to another group or off-duty, a camera man, etc. are all "outside information" too, right?

Good point. In that respect yes that is true. But I would argue (and maybe be wrong) that the rules were not made expecting someone with a telephoto high speed sense would then be allowed to do their own review on plays and alter the outcomes of tournaments. 

 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, 808hacker said:

Good point. In that respect yes that is true. But I would argue (and maybe be wrong) that the rules were not made expecting someone with a telephoto high speed sense would then be allowed to do their own review on plays and alter the outcomes of tournaments. 

1. Please quote properly.

2. This didn't require a "telephoto high speed lens [ed]". There are rules in place that say that if such equipment is necessary it's not really admissible. This isn't a case of that.

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/9997686/golf-rules-limit-use-high-definition-replays

Decision 18/4. Deals with a ball at rest moved only.

Lexi moved the ball enough you could have seen it with the naked eye.

[boogielicious]

OK, all outrage aside, some of these tweets are pretty funny.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/tiger-and-rest-twitter-reacts-lexi-penalty

 

[Golfingdad]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

The golfer who cheated on purposes and didn't write her score down: she's DQed when the breach is discovered (unless she also lies about how she didn't know it was a penalty, or that she'd done it, and they believe her and only assess her the additional two for an incorrect scorecard).

My scenario was the same as his - to everybody else, the violations looked the same, and the cheaters actions were noticed before the scorecard was signed.  She gets the two strokes for the violation but nothing more.  Nobody knows she cheated except her.  I thought I was fairly clear in what I was getting at.

[Dave2512]

I get the spirit of the game stuff but also agree that viewers shouldn't have that much impact. The do-gooder armchair RO calling in a penalty and the dork that screams FREEBIRD! at concerts are samey to me, both are interjectors.

[808hacker]

Quote

1. Please quote properly.

2. This didn't require a "telephoto high speed lens [ed]". There are rules in place that say that if such equipment is necessary it's not really admissible. This isn't a case of that.

OK how about "telephoto" or how about video replay, do you not understand what I am saying? Sorry about the quoting, I've probably been online so much longer than you and am used to quoting the old way. Thanks for bringing this to my attention moderator.

 

[Hategolf]

So..it seems that there are 2 main arguments here. 

1) Lexi made a mistake, she was penalized accordingly and that is golf. There is no argument here , move a long. 

and 

2) They really need to remove outside elements such as spectators from having an influence on the outcome of the Tournament. This being a revision of the rules in the future. Weather you agree with it or not, this is some people's opinion.  

I subscribe to number 2, I think it make sense. 

[Ernest Jones]

4 minutes ago, 808hacker said:

OK how about "telephoto" or how about video replay, do you not understand what I am saying? Sorry about the quoting, I've probably been online so much longer than you and am used to quoting the old way. Thanks for bringing this to my attention moderator.

 

 

No need to get snarky.

[Lihu]

4 minutes ago, 808hacker said:

OK how about "telephoto" or how about video replay, do you not understand what I am saying? Sorry about the quoting, I've probably been online so much longer than you and am used to quoting the old way. Thanks for bringing this to my attention moderator.

She moved it at least half an inch. It's clearly visible in a relatively low resolution video on youtube.

I think the way things turned out is really good PR for Lexi. She took her medicine and continued on. I really like her because of the way she reacted to this, and I'm sure by the many responses here and with her fellow players that she "won".

If she had been found out later to have violated the rules, then everyone would be questioning her. I think the fan that called this in did her a favor. She can always win more majors, and now she's won the hearts of her fans.

[krupa]

18 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

OK, all outrage aside, some of these tweets are pretty funny.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/tiger-and-rest-twitter-reacts-lexi-penalty

 

*ahem*  I was eating Bugles, thank you very much.