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My shop has been setting up a launch monitor/simulator for a while and our next step is to get a high speed camera.  We have 2 4K smart TVs and we've hooked up the newest iPhones and ipads and they don't get the frames per second to really get a clear picture of a full fast swing.  I want the fps to be that of which I can see the actual club-head striking the ball, not a blur of a club-head.  Price isn't a huge factor here, we want it to be really good more than we want it to be cheap.

2 questions.  1) What fps is needed to see what I described above?  2) What cameras would you suggest?  We want something portable that can go onto a track on the wall.  

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
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Not an expert, if you use iPhones, throw in more lighting and you'll see the clubhead better.

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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10 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Not an expert, if you use iPhones, throw in more lighting and you'll see the clubhead better.

It wasn't good enough for me, at least.  I use my slo-mo a lot but it's too blurry.  I can get the gist of where the face and everything is, but I want it to be pretty clear and not a guess.

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

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Which iPhone are you using, the 6 has 240 fps, this looks like it was shot with an iPhone 6, you can see the club head fine.

Good light

Not so good lighting, club head gets fuzzy towards impact

 

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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(edited)

I just went on my phone and found old videos I took with it.  It is a iphone7 and my buddy who has a very high swing speed, I can see the face but it's still fuzzy. (EDIT- Well ultimately yes maybe my phone could do the trick but we won't put in good lighting because of the simulator.)  It probably is the light in the room then in regards to the videos I took in there.  So, maybe I want something with 500fps-ish?  I also need something with a wide lens as there isn't much room and I guess something that doesn't need perfect lighting.

Edited by phillyk

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

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2 minutes ago, phillyk said:

So, maybe I want something with 500fps-ish?  I also need something with a wide lens as there isn't much room and I guess something that doesn't need perfect lighting.

I'm pretty sure the higher the framerate, the more lighting you need, and it can't be fluorescent because it strobes.

@iacas might be able to help you out with more information.

Bill

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Yeah, @iacas would know better. Compared to the Casio point and shoot I use, the FH100 I think, the iPhone requires 3-4 more feet to get the whole swing in the frame, imho, it's not great if you're strapped for space.

Steve

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If cost really isn't that big of a deal, go pick up a Canon dslr, a common choice for videographers.  Check the specs to be certain, but I expect any of their current models will have adjustable fps as high as you need and then some.  It will also give you excellent clarity in lower lighting.  The standard offered lens will probably be just fine, but if not, you can buy a wide angle.  

If youdo have some sticker shock, look for a used model on craigslist or ebay.

Edited by wannabe

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I have a DSLR like someone above talked about above. I have a Cannon 80D. It can film in full 1080p HD at 60fps and using windows movie maker you can slow it down as much as you want with no blur. I dont have any example videos to show because I am not on my home computer right now. It has a high ISO so you can film in low light areas. You can buy a wide angle lens if thats what you want. Has a lot of professional accessories to make movies. It will run you around 1100 for just the body and another 200-700 on a wide lense depending on what you want. Then the Movie kit with an external mic, will be another 250 atleast. It falls above a hobby camera but below a professional. If you want to film in full 4k with a decent frame rate its gonna be extremely expensive. I think for 2000 you could have what your looking for in a DSLR. You can get a lower quality older model DSLR for cheaper they start at 500 or a pro one for about 5000. Thats just for the camera body not lenses and accessories you need. Seems like you need to do a lot of research to find the perfect one for you.

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If price really isn't an issue then phantom cameras are pretty good for slo-mo.  I've seen them used in a golf app for iPhone and they go into the 1000s of fps.

www.phantomhighspeed.com

if you really need to get high quality slow motion then they are hard to beat imho.

 

Adam

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59 minutes ago, ZappyAd said:

If price really isn't an issue then phantom cameras are pretty good for slo-mo.  I've seen them used in a golf app for iPhone and they go into the 1000s of fps.

www.phantomhighspeed.com

if you really need to get high quality slow motion then they are hard to beat imho.

 

You know when the price is not on their website they are going to be expensive. 

I am pretty sure they only make like professional cameras that run over 50,000 dollars I don't think they make any recreational cameras. I know they make a 4K high fps slow mo camera thats over 100,000 dollars. 

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23 minutes ago, sirsteveo55 said:

You know when the price is not on their website they are going to be expensive. 

They are known for their professional-level cameras, but they do have less expensive products:

https://www.phantomhighspeed.com/Store/phantom-camera

- John

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Come on, let's not go overboard here. Tech is cheap nowadays. I posted about the Sony RX10 which back then sold for $950 probably cheaper now, it does 960 fps. That's almost two years ago.

Another 960 fps video. 

 

 

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Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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The iPhone is great if you have enough light.

If the clubhead is blurry, the shutter speed is probably 1/250th or 1/500th or something less than that.

We record on the Casio FH-25 at 1/800th inside, and 1/2500th outside.

The Sony is nice too, but they only record for two seconds, and they're slower, and the file sizes are larger, of course.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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10 hours ago, sirsteveo55 said:

You know when the price is not on their website they are going to be expensive. 

I am pretty sure they only make like professional cameras that run over 50,000 dollars I don't think they make any recreational cameras. I know they make a 4K high fps slow mo camera thats over 100,000 dollars. 

 

I think if the OP can't get the results they need from an iPhone (or even two or three iPhones) then the next step up in quality is going to cost.  Currently 240fps is close to the edge of the envelope for consumer devices.  There are consumer level cameras out there that do higher fps rates but a lot have limitations behind the fps headline such as lower resolution or only record for limited time.  There is a phantom for about $10k (but you will probably also need supporting tech that might cost as much).  I know on the golf app I mentioned they actually only hired the phantom for a few days to get the shots but that wouldn't work for the op.  

I guess you also have to factor in workflow - how are you going to get images out of the camera and use them in real time?  On the iPhone you can probably get an app for that but on a DSLR or similar you might be looking at a very small screen, need lots of cables, or even have to transfer memory cards back and forth.

This website has some useful information on it all http://www.hispeedcams.com

Adam

:ping: G30 Driver 

:callaway: XR16 3W
:callaway: Big Bertha 5W
:ping: S55 4-W 
:ping: 50' , 56', 60' Glide Wedge
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4 hours ago, ZappyAd said:

I think if the OP can't get the results they need from an iPhone (or even two or three iPhones) then the next step up in quality is going to cost.  Currently 240fps is close to the edge of the envelope for consumer devices.  There are consumer level cameras out there that do higher fps rates but a lot have limitations behind the fps headline such as lower resolution or only record for limited time.  There is a phantom for about $10k (but you will probably also need supporting tech that might cost as much).  I know on the golf app I mentioned they actually only hired the phantom for a few days to get the shots but that wouldn't work for the op.

The Sony does 960 FPS.

Our six-year-old Casios do 240 FPS (admittedly at 448 x 336 or some such resolution, which we actually like as it keeps file size down).

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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13 hours ago, iacas said:

The iPhone is great if you have enough light.

If the clubhead is blurry, the shutter speed is probably 1/250th or 1/500th or something less than that.

We record on the Casio FH-25 at 1/800th inside, and 1/2500th outside.

The Sony is nice too, but they only record for two seconds, and they're slower, and the file sizes are larger, of course.

I'll take a look at the sony and casio.  How far away does the casio need to be, face on, to see the swing?

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

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