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dbuck

Push fade

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I tried to search ball flight rules on this section, but timed out, maybe because search to broad.

Anyway, I am hitting what I think is a push fade, -the ball starts right of target and fades. Contact is solid and the ball goes about as far as I can hit it with that club.

This means I am--?

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The ball is starting right with a small fade?  Then you're probably hitting the ball with a club head path somewhere between square to the target line and slightly in to out at impact, with the club face slightly open to that club head path.  So something like 0˚ club head path at impact with a face angle 2-3˚ right at impact.  Or maybe club head path 3˚ right or target and face angle 5-6˚ right of target, at impact.

If ball is starting a bit right but fading hard (i.e. it's really a slice, generously called a fade), you're likely hitting with an out to in club head path at impact – over the top – but arriving at impact with the face to the right of the target line at impact.  A deadly combo!

Note right/left above is assuming you're right handed.

I know I've seen Erik say a bunch of times that most people struggling with shots drifting right are going over the top, even if they claim they definitely aren't.  So I'm open to the possibility that even with a small push-fade you're still likely hitting with a club head path going left of the target line at impact.  But if the ball is truly starting right of the target and not drawing, the face literally has to be, via the laws of physics, right of the target line at impact.

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5 hours ago, dbuck said:

I tried to search ball flight rules on this section, but timed out, maybe because search to broad.

Anyway, I am hitting what I think is a push fade, -the ball starts right of target and fades. Contact is solid and the ball goes about as far as I can hit it with that club.

This means I am--?

https://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

Path is either neutral to slightly inside to out with the face slightly open to the path. 

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Thanks for the responses.

So, assuming that the swing path is neutral to slightly in to out, I should close the face at address to produce a push draw?

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1 minute ago, dbuck said:

Thanks for the responses.

So, assuming that the swing path is neutral to slightly in to out, I should close the face at address to produce a push draw?

If the path is neutral and you square the face, the ball would go dead straight.  If you closed the face more (still with a neutral path) the ball would start a little left and draw more to the left.

If your path is actually silghtly in to out (say 3 degrees), you could concetvably get the face to 1-2 degrees and hit a push draw.  This seems like pretty tight tolerances to me though.

Would it be simpler to just align yourself more left and hit the push fade?

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One thing to do is place a headcover on the ground between you and the ball a little back of the ball, that will keep you from coming at the ball from the inside.

When I do that its because I left my wrists behind and haven't squared the clubface. I focus on turning my hands through the ball.

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On 4/24/2017 at 6:53 PM, saevel25 said:

https://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

Path is either neutral to slightly inside to out with the face slightly open to the path. 

I have to agree. The OP said he's making solid contact and hitting the ball about as far as he is capable. If you're wiping across the ball from outside in, that's when you get the weak, pop up fades.

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For me a strong push is a path too in To out with face very near the path.  

For me if I try to hit through the inside of the ball that happens almost every time.  That's why I don't do that.

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On 4/24/2017 at 10:08 AM, dbuck said:

This means I am--?

Could be any numbers of reasons. All we know is that the face is right of the target and the path is left of the face (assuming center-ish contact). 

Easier to diagnosis with a video. Do you have a swing thread?

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22 hours ago, dbuck said:

So, assuming that the swing path is neutral to slightly in to out, I should close the face at address to produce a push draw?

As @mvmac says, you'd need to post video to see just what you're doing.  However, if your distance is good, and the ball flight is consistent, you ca play golf pretty effectively with that push-fade.

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You'd think so since there have been quite a few pros who have done that over the years! But something seems to happen to amateurs when they try that. Guy has a fade, or push fade, and you tell them to just aim left and let the fade bring it back into the fairway. Suddenly, they start throwing over the top and wiping across the ball, and they're in just as much trouble as they ever were! Maybe more!

I've seen this time and time again, and am at a loss to explain it! Although I will say this. I see far too many slicers and faders teeing up on the left side of the tee box, and far too many drawers and hooker tee up on the right, when it should be the opposite.

But when you try to explain it to them they look at you like you have two heads!

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IMO that's why something theoretically more ideal would be starting the ball on your stance line.

Great players have not all done this (Trevino) but imo it makes the swing easier to manage over time.

If you align the body open or shut to varying degrees you always need to manage how much of that is ok.

The nice thing about a square alignment is you can check it easily.

Varying degrees off square is adding complexity to the operation.

Its almost a theory or concept as opposed to a hard and fast rule but aligning square is something I personally believe in.

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This is a great shot to have. This is the ball flight that Fred Couples predominantly hits. I have been working on it recently because it is very reliable.

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On 4/24/2017 at 0:08 PM, dbuck said:

I tried to search ball flight rules on this section, but timed out, maybe because search to broad.

Anyway, I am hitting what I think is a push fade, -the ball starts right of target and fades. Contact is solid and the ball goes about as far as I can hit it with that club.

This means I am--?

Are you just trying to understand the laws or are you trying to fix an issue? Is the push fade consistent?

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Note: This thread is 1297 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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