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Vinsk

Ernie Els Calls Own Penalty, Branden Grace Gets Drop in Bunker

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Just watching the interview I am wondering if he wasn't making a bit of a point about LT. Not with the penalty itself but in the interview where several times he stressed the importance of the ball being replaced where it is supposed to be

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36 minutes ago, Shorty said:

Just watching the interview I am wondering if he wasn't making a bit of a point about LT. Not with the penalty itself but in the interview where several times he stressed the importance of the ball being replaced where it is supposed to be

Umm, the penalty he took is directly related to that. It would be strange not to emphasize the reason why he took the penalty. 

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6 hours ago, iacas said:

Ernie lifted it because he thought it was embedded/plugged.

So, I can see how if you thought it was plugged, to where it pops out without any problem at all and you can feel the club slide under the ball without getting into the dirt/mud at all, that you could feel that you didn't replace it properly.

There's a big difference between a ball that's almost plugged versus one that's even 1/4" above the dirt/mud.

I thought it read he lifted his ball to identify it? If it was plugged ...you just place it back in the plug hole right? And let me say I'm not questioning Els' ethics at all. What I'm pondering is are players going to start being TOO careful and overly harsh on themselves? I say this because my intuition is telling me had he not holed out, he wouldn't have called a penalty. He would've simply gone with the fact that golf is often unpredictable and the ball flies funny for everyone.

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35 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Umm, the penalty he took is directly related to that. It would be strange not to emphasize the reason why he took the penalty. 

Yes, but he really went on a few times about integrity and not being able to live with himself and the importance of replacing the ball where it should be. It seemed that he was really trying to put a message out there. In any case, let's hope that Cheatin' Lexi heard him ;-)

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33 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I thought it read he lifted his ball to identify it? If it was plugged ...you just place it back in the plug hole right?

a) The article said it was to identify it, but in his interview he said he thought it was plugged. So who knows…?
b) Yeah, but if you don't push it all the way down, you didn't properly replace it.

33 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

What I'm pondering is are players going to start being TOO careful and overly harsh on themselves?

How about they just be more aware of the Rules? :-) That means either being more diligent in replacing balls properly… or penalizing yourself when you goof up.

33 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I say this because my intuition is telling me had he not holed out, he wouldn't have called a penalty. He would've simply gone with the fact that golf is often unpredictable and the ball flies funny for everyone.

I don't think he would have done that. He thought it was plugged enough to check it, and the ball came out too easily.

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There still seems to be a bit of a disconnect between his explanation of the situation and the shot that he actually played......just doesn't add up that he hit pretty much a perfectly paced shot with the "belief" that that ball was  sitting way down and maybe even slightly plugged.....just doesn't look to me that he was trying to gouge out a shot that is sitting way down........as Erik said on the first page, there is a huge difference between a ball sitting all the way down and one that is sitting up even a 1/4" 

Edited by BallStriker

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Plugged? Or identifying it? Makes a world of difference right? Don't you get relief from a plugged lie through the green?

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3 minutes ago, colin007 said:

Plugged? Or identifying it? Makes a world of difference right? Don't you get relief from a plugged lie through the green?

Only if the local rule is in place. The Rules of Golf without LRs only allow you to do it through the green in closely mown areas. Which I think it is on the European Tour, but it may not be. Either way I think they determined it wasn't plugged, so he had to replace it.

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I am finding that a bit absurd. Especially with the amount he was digging his feet in. At what point do you call that is his not fairly taking his stance in the bunker (rule 13-2, decision 13-2/1). The guy was obviously digging his feet into the sand excessively. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hardluckster said:

The Grace ruling, imo, is complete rubbish. 

He should be ashamed of himself. 

Why? For knowing the rules? Official was called over, official approved his claim, drop given. Play on. DJ asked for a drop in the US OPEN due to a tower obstructing his target line which put his ball in the fairway rather than the first cut. He then proceeded to hit his ball over the tower. They played by the rules. 

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2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I am finding that a bit absurd. Especially with the amount he was digging his feet in. At what point do you call that is his not fairly taking his stance in the bunker (rule 13-2, decision 13-2/1). The guy was obviously digging his feet into the sand excessively. 

 

 

Could be, but it could also be entirely reasonable.  I don't see him so much "digging" as he's trying to find a solid footing.  If you notice, he moves his foot a couple of times and he's way up on the steep part of the face.

Im with @Vinsk on this one.  He knew the rules, got a favorable ruling, and played smart.  Willett (and one other guy too I think) were out of line.

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He was close to building a stance, in my opinion, but based on some other "digging in" efforts I have seen, he did not cross the line.

A tip of the cap to him for calling in a Rules official after he hit pay dirt.  If I had been the official, I would have told him "no" but I can understand how some (all?) Rules people might consider that call wrong.

I do know that in the future, when confronted with a lie I do not like in a bunker, I plan on re-creating the "Big Dig" in an effort to find a silver lining.  ;-)

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7 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Why? For knowing the rules? Official was called over, official approved his claim, drop given. Play on. DJ asked for a drop in the US OPEN due to a tower obstructing his target line which put his ball in the fairway rather than the first cut. He then proceeded to hit his ball over the tower. They played by the rules. 

The official did not see the efforts it took to reach the lining of the bunker. That's the concern some people have.

18 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

He was close to building a stance, in my opinion, but based on some other "digging in" efforts I have seen, he did not cross the line.

A tip of the cap to him for calling in a Rules official after he hit pay dirt.  If I had been the official, I would have told him "no" but I can understand how some (all?) Rules people might consider that call wrong.

I agree. If I had seen the efforts required and the sand moved, I'd have probably not given him relief either.

@Golfingdad, you're not guaranteed "solid footing." He was very, very close to building a stance.

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8 minutes ago, iacas said:

The official did not see the efforts it took to reach the lining of the bunker. That's the concern some people have

So millions of fans can see it, people can call in at a later time resulting in a penalty...but an onsite official missed 30 seconds of feet shuffling but oh hell....that's the way it goes....no way can the tape be watched? He was on a pretty steep bank ....I didn't see his footing to be too excessive in developing a stance. I'm sure it could be easily found where his amount of shuffling doesn't exceed what's been done many, many times by others in a bunker.

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8 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Why? For knowing the rules? Official was called over, official approved his claim, drop given. Play on. DJ asked for a drop in the US OPEN due to a tower obstructing his target line which put his ball in the fairway rather than the first cut. He then proceeded to hit his ball over the tower. They played by the rules. 

He could have used a shovel and not moved more sand ?. 

To me it is quite obvious that he's trying to dig in to reach the bunker liner (would be have needed to go so deep in the sand had the ball not been plugged?). I've never dug in to a bunker anywhere near what he did. 

We all judge situations based on our personal views, and I can tell you that I would never have used this tactic - therefore I see it as disingenuous. That's not an indictment on anyone here who views the situation differently - its just my opinion.

If the official had seen all of the manipulation it took for him to get to the liner, I would hope that he would have denied relief. 

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I don't understand his explanation, unless he simply forgot what actually happened. From http://www.independent.ie/sport/golf/it-was-ridiculous-paul-mcginley-and-danny-willett-take-aim-at-controversial-branden-grace-drop-35757007.html:

Quote

"It's quite a steep upslope there. I was trying to get a stance with my right foot, but my left one I didn't have to do too much. The right one was sliding down most of the time and then obviously getting down into the sand I was touching the rubber.

 To me it looked like his right foot was solid and he was shuffling and digging his left a whole bunch. He was looking where his left foot had been like something was wrong. Also suspect is that he got a similar ruling a few years ago:

Quote

"I actually knew the ruling from a couple of years ago in China at the HSBC Champions," he said.

"My ball was found outside the bunker, but the only stance I had was inside the bunker and the same thing happened.

It sounds to me like he remembered a cheap way to get out of a tough situation. 

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