How would you correct this problem?

[Chilidipper]

Okay okay I got the backswing down pretty well. I have the set up pretty well. I am not longer over the top Thank God. Now I my next step. How do you keep the club head out long so you don't cut at the ball. How do you stay down longer and fire your club head out at 2 oclock. Is there a trick to this?


Thanks in advance

[fusioncal]

Okay okay I got the backswing down pretty well. I have the set up pretty well. I am not longer over the top Thank God. Now I my next step. How do you keep the club head out long so you don't cut at the ball. How do you stay down longer and fire your club head out at 2 oclock. Is there a trick to this?

The trick is to begin your downswing with hips first, not hands. That's why you had that over the top swing. If you keep using your hands it's tough to be consistent in ball striking.

I'm pretty much sure you're also using your hands/wrists to begin your backswing. Now forget about that and get used initiating the take away with the big muscles. While practicing this you may not able to hit the ball at all (thin, fat, etc) but don't worry about it. The important thing is to swing right first. Impact is on another page of the book. Now as you're firing at 2 o'clock, it means you're too hasty hitting the ball and you're bound to finish your swing earlier. That's why you can't keep it down long enough because you're already finished swinging, which will result in skull/thin-ing the ball. While cut, I believe, is because you're trying to keep continuing your swing even it's already finished and causing your club face to stay open (no follow through). Just relax, the ball isn't going anywhere. Watch your rhythm and tempo. When you're applying the right swing there's no need to remembering it as your hips will guide the whole swing and the impact as well. Hope this helps.

[albatroz]

Put a 2 ft 2x4 wood block an inch and a half to two inches in front of your ball at adress . This would help you align your clubhead to run parallel to the block on its way to the golf ball . As you go past your ball without contact to the block would is the drill to perfect your ball contact and take away .

[Ringer]

Take your golf stance. Put a golf ball in your hand. Now throw it underhanded as far as you can at a target. Now, standing in exactly the same place, try to throw another ball 10 yards to the right of where you threw the last one.

How did you do that?

[andre112]

Take your golf stance. Put a golf ball in your hand. Now throw it underhanded as far as you can at a target. Now, standing in exactly the same place, try to throw another ball 10 yards to the right of where you threw the last one.

so you are supposed to throw the ball/club to the right of the target?

what's the reason behind this? get technical if you need to.

[Ringer]

Well first off let me say that the point of my post was to give a SIMPLE intention that when followed through would produce the physical action he was seeking. Then I simply asked a question to get them to think about how the action is really any different.

For your sake I'll get a bit technical.

The original post was intended to find out how to keep the club going through the impact area with driving force toward the target as opposed to a glancing blow which would cause sidespine. Now, the one thing all driving shots share in common is a steady application of force on a singular plane.

That is to say, you cannot push a car sideways very effectively. You have to get behind it to push it. Similarly you want to apply force along the plane the club is swinging on and not attempt to divert it's path in mid swing.

The single most telling body part that tells me when someone has diverted the swings path is the right shoulder. If I see it traveling down toward the ball on the forward swing then that means that the entire aparatus from hands to shoulders must be moving toward the ball. If that is true then that means it must be all traveling on a similar plane and providing that force that we're looking for on plane . Afterall, how can the arms go one way and the shoulders go another? They're all turning around the same point.. which brings us to my next topic.

The arms and the shoulders all rotate around our spine. Because of that, the angle our spine is tilted will determine the majority of where our arms and shoulders go. That being said, and coupled with the above paragraph it should be evident to you by now that spine tilt is the #1 contributing factor in determining the swing plane.

I don't determine swing plane just in terms of upright or flat either. The traditional concept of inside to out, or outside to in is simply a directional shift in the plane based upon the point of view that we're observing it from. This gets us into the issue of parallax which is another disucssion altogether... but bottom line is the plane at which the club is swinging is sigular... it's direction might shift from backswing to forward swing.

Hmmm, I think I'm just murkying up the water here so let me give you an example.

The most common mistake people associate with the golf swing plane would be the Over the Top move. Now, the way most people try to resolve this is with a "drop into the slot" or "pump drill". Both of these concepts work on two things which are NOT the problem. Dropping into the slot is trying to get the arms to work independently of the body while the pump drill is trying to get the hips to work independently of the arms.

The reason why either of them have any success is because unwittingly they are changing the spine tilt. Ah yes, back to spine tilt. The spine angle/tilt is determined by where the lower body is (hips) and where the upper body is (head). If the head stays back and the hips go forward then you increase the tilt.

An OTT move is nothing more than the upper body shifting forward before the lower body does.

So, getting back to the main point. Spine tilt, axis tilt, spine angle.. whatever you want to call it, it is THE DETERMINING FACTOR in direction of the swing plane. Have a swing plane problem, change the tilt. Now, there are any number of other factors that will change the tilt but they are all either going to change the position of the hips or the head. Flaring the left foot out, flaring it in, pulling your right foot back, putting your feet together, keeping your head behind the ball, even trying to keep your shoulders aligned to the target at setup. These are all ways of manipulating your spine tilt.

Ok, now lets tie all this back into my advice offered first.

When you throw the ball underhanded to the right of the target, what is that going to do to your spine tilt? It forces your head to stay back a little more and shift the hips forward a bit more.... making your spine tilt away from the target a little bit more. The right shoulder and arm then follow a direction around that spine tilt you created forcing them off in a direction to the side of the target. All of this is subconcious, but happening.

I am suggesting this (mostly with imagery) to get him and anyone reading this to think about how they are going to change the position of their spine. It's all in an effort to get them to work on letting the right shoulder drive toward the ball, allowing the arms and club to swing on a singular plane with no manipulation required.

[andre112]

*SNIP*

Thanks that's a very detailed explanation.

I'd give you a +rep if the system let me to give you more. If I understand you correctly: the spine tilt will change do to a slight forward movement of the hip looking from the front of the golfer. In order to keep club head on plane with the change of spine tilt, the golfer will have to swing the club to the right of the target. If the golfer consciously manipulate the club head toward the target, the club head will NOT be on plane, correct? This happens not only with the driver but also on irons and wedges, correct? I have a slight outside in path half of the time which is causing balls to go left. So I tried throwing the club to the right with my irons. When I do that, I hit my shots thin (driver swing creeped into iron shots) or very fat (I was casting to throw it). Do you have any suggestion to incorporate this drill? I tried your walking toward target drill. It doesn't seem to help much. (It helped me with my tempo though. )

[fusioncal]

Very well explained, Ringer.

andre112: When you begin your downswing, do you feel like your left hips leaning a bit toward the target? I'm just curious.

[andre112]

Very well explained, Ringer.

no, but from videos i can see that i am.

not very much though. if i'm feeling that i'm leaning my left hip, i'm in big trouble cuz i have a really fast hip. i'm still working on slowing down my hip. when i get that right, my shots usually go straight.

[cwo2lt]

Nice explanation Ringer, thanks. I'm going to try the under hand toss tonight.