Jump to content
IGNORED

A rules question from this morning's round.


Apoc81
Note: This thread is 2491 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Was playing a straight par 4, water on the left, bunkers up the right side along the woods, and hit a beautiful drive to within 100 yards, great shot out of the fairway. 

Now, I was playing a foursome, and we all saw this. A fox came out of  the woods, stole my ball, and ran back into the woods. The others in my foursome all saw it, all agreed I should take a free drop as close as possible to the original lie, but I didn't hand in my round because nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done. The only answers I got at all were "Take a free drop, who cares?"

I care though, and I would like to know the actual ruling. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The advice to drop as close as possible to the original spot was correct.  The fox is an "outside agency" and a ball moved (or stolen) by an outside agency is dropped without penalty.

Of course, one must be virtually certain that an outside agency was involved.  In this instance, there was no issue with the cause of the disappearance.

Edited by bkuehn1952
  • Upvote 2

Brian Kuehn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Just now, bkuehn1952 said:

The advice to drop as close as possible to the original spot was correct.  The fox is an "outside agency" and a ball moved (or stolen) by an outside agency is dropped without penalty.

Thank you very much. I was about to start reading through the rulebook to see if it said anything, it's been a few years since I read it.. I probably still will, but it's nice to know everyone's instincts weren't wrong. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

Ball at rest moved.

Very easy rule to find. I have no idea how "nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done." Everyone has smart phones.

  • Upvote 1

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

37 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Thank you very much. I was about to start reading through the rulebook to see if it said anything, it's been a few years since I read it.. I probably still will, but it's nice to know everyone's instincts weren't wrong. 

In addition to the rules book, get a copy of Tuft's Principles of the Rules of Golf -- I have found when I don't know a rule offhand, I can often figure out what it is based on this.  

(Note to people reading in the future:  I hope, but do not know, that this will still apply with the pending rules changes)

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

Ball at rest moved.

Very easy rule to find. I have no idea how "nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done." Everyone has smart phones.

Really.

Hell, the USGA has a free app that everyone should have on their phone.  For an extra $1.99 or so you can get the decisions included too.

 

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Just now, David in FL said:

Really.

Hell, the USGA has a free app that everyone should have on their phone.  For an extra $1.99 or so you can get the decisions included too.

People complain about how difficult the rules are… but they can't find the easy stuff. Laziness?

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)
3 hours ago, iacas said:

Ball at rest moved.

Very easy rule to find. I have no idea how "nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done." Everyone has smart phones.

Because the pro wasn't there and its a bunch of university kids working in the clubhouse for the summer. Normally I would have asked the course pro, but he's not there Mondays or Tuesdays. They were more focused on hiring gorgeous brunettes who look good in golf skirts and tight tops than people who knew what was going on. 

 

It's a beautiful course, but sex sells, not knowledge. Especially at a course 75+% men over forty. 

Edited by Apoc81
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
50 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Because the pro wasn't there and its a bunch of university kids working in the clubhouse for the summer. Normally I would have asked the course pro, but he's not there Mondays or Tuesdays. They were more focused on hiring gorgeous brunettes who look good in golf skirts and tight tops than people who knew what was going on.

Don't take this the wrong way, but… you're a 9. I know you were away from the game for a bit, so that may be a bit out of date, but you were a 9. It's puzzling to me why you'd have to ask this - that you wouldn't know how to look it up (or you didn't care to try?).

Screen%20Shot%202017-05-29%20at%204.00.5People complain about how difficult the Rules of Golf are, but this is one of the easiest ones to look up and find. The entire rule is called "Ball at Rest Moved" and is the title of the whole rule or "chapter." Online it's directly under a thing called "Ball moved, deflected, or stopped."

Again, don't take it the wrong way. What you do in a far away land that has no bearing on me really doesn't matter much. It really doesn't, and I'm happy you're back to playing golf again. Really glad. :-)

But maybe use this as a little impetus to poke around the Rules, using a smart phone or a copy of the Rules of Golf in recycled dead tree form… because I think you'll learn how easily most of the answers are to find.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)
12 minutes ago, iacas said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but… you're a 9. I know you were away from the game for a bit, so that may be a bit out of date, but you were a 9. It's puzzling to me why you'd have to ask this - that you wouldn't know how to look it up (or you didn't care to try?).

Screen%20Shot%202017-05-29%20at%204.00.5People complain about how difficult the Rules of Golf are, but this is one of the easiest ones to look up and find. The entire rule is called "Ball at Rest Moved" and is the title of the whole rule or "chapter." Online it's directly under a thing called "Ball moved, deflected, or stopped."

Again, don't take it the wrong way. What you do in a far away land that has no bearing on me really doesn't matter much. It really doesn't, and I'm happy you're back to playing golf again. Really glad. :-)

But maybe use this as a little impetus to poke around the Rules, using a smart phone or a copy of the Rules of Golf in recycled dead tree form… because I think you'll learn how easily most of the answers are to find.

I had no rules book on me, and I have never, ever encountered a situation where an animal stole a ball right in front of me. I've lost balls in the fairway, all sorts of stupid stuff, but it was just a situation I didn't know offhand. I haven't played since before the 2016 rules were finalized, and hadn't read the rules book in years (looked up rules, but never read cover to cover), which I stupidly did not have with me. Like I said, it was just a situation I never encountered, and had a good idea of the ruling, but no actual evidence and nobody who could ensure me that I was doing the right thing. I'll hand in the card wednesday, and all will be fine, and I won't be handing in a card i'm not sure of. Thats why I asked on here right after my round. 

 

Edit: I don't know why it says 9, this is the first time ive been above a 9hcp since my teens. I'll need to adjust that once I have enough rounds in. 

Edited by Apoc81
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

I'll echo what @iacas said, I believe that everyone who plays reasonably serious golf should have the rules with them, in some form.  I've been a member of the USGA for a good while now, and one o the good things about membership is the brand new RoG that I get every spring.  Anyway, you got the right response above.  I actually had a fox steal MY ball a couple weeks ago, in plain sight, and we all knew the rule in our group.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
18 hours ago, iacas said:

Ball at rest moved.

Very easy rule to find. I have no idea how "nobody at the clubhouse could give me an actual ruling on what I should have done." Everyone has smart phones.

But that would require using my fingers to open the phone, open my FREE USGA Rules of Golf App, looking up the ball at rest moved by an outside agency rule and reading the rule. I'm not sure I have the energy for that. :-P

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

(edited)
2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

But that would require using my fingers to open the phone, open my FREE USGA Rules of Golf App, looking up the ball at rest moved by an outside agency rule and reading the rule. I'm not sure I have the energy for that. :-P

Number one, I had no idea there was a free rules of golf app. Do you have to be a member of the USGA? Because i'm Canadian, and Golf Canada doesn't give us free anything besides a crappy quarterly magazine. I didn't have a current rules book with me, as I was forced out of the game for almost 3 years due to a workplace injury. I encountered a situation that had never happened to me before and asked a simple question. 

Edited by Apoc81
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

3 minutes ago, Apoc81 said:

Number one, I had no idea there was a free rules of golf app. Do you have to be a member of the USGA? Because i'm Canadian, and Golf Canada doesn't give us free anything besides a crappy quarterly magazine. I didn't have a current rules book with me, as I was forced out of the game for almost 3 years due to a workplace injury. I encountered a situation that had never happened to me before and asked a simple question. 

No need to be a USGA member.

Simple download.  Spend the extra $1.99 or whatever it is to get the Decisions too.

:beer:

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Just now, David in FL said:

No need to be a USGA member.

Simple download.  Spend the extra $1.99 or whatever it is to get the Decisions too.

:beer:

I actually just checked and picked them both up. Thanks. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

Even without the app… it's a free website. Works on mobile too.

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-and-decisions.html

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/Rules-Explorer

Either jurisdiction! :-)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

@Apoc81 and as always, TST is a great place to inquire and learn about Rules and Decisions.
While I always seem to get my "Tit in a Ringer" when discussing Rules, it's by far my most favorite golf topics. :beer:

Johnny Rocket - Let's Rock and Roll and play some golf !!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 2491 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • Day 85 - Played 9. Driver was solid, approach shots were pushed, chipping/pitching was better, putting was rough. 
    • Day 514, March 28, 2024 Quick ten minutes while waiting for the wife to come home for our trip.
    • Day 262: did a stack session. Worked on rehearsal swings during rest breaks. 
    • It's been a little more than a year since I can last remember hitting golf balls and today I just got my second cortisone injection in 11 months. I thought maybe shortly after the first injection I was going to be able to start playing again with therapy but the pain while doing my backswing past halfway just didn't subside like just lifting my hands up in the air did. So today the Orthopedic surgeon put more in the backside of the shoulder than before to address the tendon more. I'm going to try therapy for another 3 months and if I  can't swing the club without pain then I think surgery is going to be my next option.
    • I was just down visiting family in southern California and we played a couple rounds of golf. I hit my ball into the deep rough near some tree's and my cousin's husband offered me his Sim 2 Rescue Hybrid to try out. And I felt the same way, wow! I loved it, it also had a Pure DTX grip on it which I loved. As soon as I got back home, I ended up buying two used Calloway Rogue X hybrids, 3 and 5. So far I've only tested them out at the range, but I love them. They're much more forgiving than irons for me.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...