Jump to content
IGNORED

Your Toughest Hole; Your Nemesis Hole


Valleygolfer

Recommended Posts

The 15th on my home course.  It's not an overly long par 5 due to the hitting off of a very large hill, but there is not a flat lie anywhere on the fairway (the course lives up to hits name [Green Hills]) and it's very easy to hit a ball right down the center only to have it kick off to the left and out of bounds.  OB to the left is really the only danger (there is a small pond off to the right of the tee box, but most people can fly it).  My problem is that constantly getting hook lies cause me to instinctually play everything too far right which then leads to need to hit a wedge off of an extreme downslope.  I've played it better this year than I ever had in the past, but its always the hole that worries me the most when I have a good round going.

 

 

Hole 15 Green Hills.jpg

Edited by baller7345

Driver - Cleveland CG Black 265
Fairway Wood - Adams Tight Lies 16 Degrees
Hybrids - 18 and 20 Degrees Adams Pro
Irons - 4-PW Adams XTD
Wedges - 52 and 56 degree Cleavland CG16

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

18 hours ago, BamaWade said:

 It's a newer course, so not narrow--and the growth wasn't closing things in--they did it more to thin out the woods just off the fairways and between holes to make them playable, with the added benefit of letting in more sunlight so the grass wouldn't thin near the tree lines.

The classic golf courses from the early 1900s had trees but not too many of them. A.W. Tillinghast believed trees should be used to shape the line of the holes, but should not interfere unduly with main line of play (i.e., no trees in front of greens). For details, see: Tillinghast "Cliff Notes".

I read a blog article by a golf course superintendent (sorry, can't find original) who managed a classic country club in the Midwest. He found historical aerial photos of the course taken in the 1930s, and the fairways were about 50-60 yards wide, with a few large trees bordering some holes. In the present day, he's dealing with 30-yard wide fairways.

Some of the things he said have contributed to narrow fairways:

  • Center-pivot sprinklers: These post-World War II additions cast a diameter of about 40 yards, about what many courses give in width to fairway and first-cut of rough.
  • Volunteer trees: Over the last century, plenty of seedlings sprang up naturally with seeds dropped by mature trees, and grew into full trees themselves. Squirrels who bury acorns help also!
  • Arbor Day: Members of the  Arbor Day Foundation could get 10 free trees a year. In some communities, golfers pooled their trees and swamped local golf courses with excess foliage.
  • Misguided ecologists: In the 21st Century, some US cities will fine golf courses if they cut down trees without permission.

EDIT: Grammar correction.

Edited by WUTiger
  • Upvote 1

Focus, connect and follow through!

  • Completed KBS Education Seminar (online, 2015)
  • GolfWorks Clubmaking AcademyFitting, Assembly & Repair School (2012)

Driver:  :touredge: EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  :callaway: Rogue 4W + 7W
Hybrid:  :callaway: Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  :callaway: Mavrik MAX 5i-PW
Wedges:  :callaway: MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter:image.png.b6c3447dddf0df25e482bf21abf775ae.pngInertial NM SL-583F, 34"  
Ball:  image.png.f0ca9194546a61407ba38502672e5ecf.png QStar Tour - Divide  ||  Bag: :sunmountain: Three 5 stand bag

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

2 hours ago, WUTiger said:

The classic golf courses from the early 1900s had trees but not too many of them. A.W. Tillinghast believed trees should be used to shape the line of the holes, but should not interfere unduly with main line of play (i.e., no trees in front of greens). For details, see: Tillinghast "Cliff Notes".

I read a blog article by a golf course superintendent (sorry, can't find original) who managed a classic country club in the Midwest. He found historical aerial photos of the course taken in the 1930s, and the fairways were about 50-60 yards wide, with a few large trees bordering some holes. In the present day, he's dealing with 30-yard wide fairways.

Some of the things he said have contributed to narrow fairways:

  • Center-pivot sprinklers: These post-World War II additions cast a diameter of about 40 yards, about what many courses give in width to fairway and first-cut of rough.
  • Volunteer trees: Over the last century, plenty of seedlings sprang up naturally with seeds dropped by mature trees, and grew into full trees themselves. Squirrels who bury acorns help also!
  • Arbor Day: Members of the  Arbor Day Foundation could get 10 free trees a year. In some communities, golfers pooled their trees and swamped local golf courses with excess foliage.
  • Misguided ecologists: In the 21st Century, some US cities will fine golf courses if they cut down trees without permission.

EDIT: Grammar correction.

For the first 50 yards there is a 30 yard window on the hole I described. I am considering talking to our pro about the tee. I am going to try to take a pic of it next time I am out. We have been weeding out old and overgrown trees on the course lately. Maybe I can mount an argument for this hole.

"My ball is on top of a rock in the hazard, do I get some sort of relief?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • iacas changed the title to Your Toughest Hole; Your Nemesis Hole

Let me introduce you to the brutal hole #11 at Chaska Town Course in Chaska, MN.  

Hole #11
Green Tees - 443 yds
Black Tees - 453

593eb2e0a0e0b_Chaskatown-11.thumb.jpg.fcd452586c731daf255f42c385d974ed.jpg

The Biggest difficulty with this hole is the trees on the right.   If you hit a tee shot that is anywhere on the right 1/3 of the fairway, the trees are thick and they block your approach to the green.   To add insult to insult to injury, The fairway is shorter on the far left, and only goes about 255 yds if you go on the far left side,  So, if you go far left, a Driver possibly goes on the water.  If you go right side, trees block your approach.   

If you have a perfect drive, you're still looking at a 160-170 yd approach into a small green, with forced carry the majority of the way.   

real cool Chaska Town Course, really nice of you. 

 

Edited by lastings

:tmade:  - SIM2 - Kuro Kage silver 60 shaft
:cobra:  - F9 3W, 15 degree - Fukijara Atmos white tour spec stiff flex shaft

:tmade: - M2 hybrid, 19 degree
:tmade: - GAPR 3 iron - 18degree
:mizuno: MP-H5 4-5 iron, MP-25 6-8 iron, MP-5 9-PW

Miura - 1957 series k-grind - 56 degree
:bettinardi: - 52 degree
:titleist: - Scotty Cameron Newport 2 - Putter

check out my swing here

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The 15th at bethpage black. Ive been playing that hole since I've been 15 years old and I've never birded it. The only hole on that course that i haven't birded. It seems like no matter how good of a drive i hit, i never hit a good approach into that green. Its just in my head. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator

My nemesis hole is #3 at Shuksan Golf Course, 395yds.  It's tough because it looks like it doglegs to the right on the tee, but it is mostly tee off at a slight angle from the direction the FW runs at.  With water to the right of the FW throughout the landing area, OB left of the FW throughout the hole, and a FW that rolls right to left slightly, choosing the right tee off club is important.  I can rip driver and hope it doesn't roll through the FW left or hit a hybrid which generally is fine but still the tee shot scares me a bit.  It must be that it doesn't fit my eye, because it really doesn't play hard once you're out there.

The toughest hole I've played is #4 at The Home Course, par 3 218yds.  You have to carry it all of the 218, because it goes across a ravine and it's typically into the wind.  The green has 3 tiers.  Left low, middle high with a bunker guarding the front, and right really low with a runoff back into the ravine off the the front of that section.  The left part of the green does have a short runway to the green that is safe to hit to, but you are in very bad shape if you do that and the pin is on the right.  The green is only 15-20yds long, but is 30-40yds wide.  Long is the best option if you don't have a good club for 220yds, because it's a backstop bank.  But that also provides a challenge because you have a downhill lie to a tough green depending on pin placement.

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Here is my low tech contribution.  #10 at Leslie Park eats my lunch more often than not.  We were playing the "Blue" tees ("Black" are the tips) last Friday.  I hit the green in regulation, a fairly unusual event.  Then 3-putted.:mad:

 

  • Upvote 1

Brian Kuehn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Another day of a crappy drive on this hole. 203....I am switching to a 3 wood for teeing off here.

tmp_11267-20170615_114518_(1)67886206.jpg

Here is the pic I promised.

"My ball is on top of a rock in the hazard, do I get some sort of relief?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
7 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Another day of a crappy drive on this hole. 203....I am switching to a 3 wood for teeing off here.

tmp_11267-20170615_114518_(1)67886206.jpg

Here is the pic I promised.

Nice little chute to hit through!

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

55 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Nice little chute to hit through!

Yeah, little is the key word....

"My ball is on top of a rock in the hazard, do I get some sort of relief?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

14 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

Another day of a crappy drive on this hole. 203....I am switching to a 3 wood for teeing off here.

tmp_11267-20170615_114518_(1)67886206.jpg

Here is the pic I promised.

Yeah thats 3w/18*hy for me, the very first time I look down that chute.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Par 4 with a 200 yard forced carry over an ocean inlet. If I drive, I'm over the green. My only play is a 3i off the tee, unless I happened to throw my driving iron in the bag. This is at a course near my wife's parents in Nova Scotia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

This is hole 17 at my home course.  I think I have birdied it a handful of times, but mostly bogeys.  The prevailing wind comes from the North (top of the picture and blows back towards the tee.  Its about a 240 yard carry over the water just inside the top right corner of the water, but with the wind blowing back at the tee, it plays tough.  Even if you play out to the right, its about a 190 yard approach.  Its really fun when the tuck the pin back left too!!!  :mad:

Hole 17 Valley.PNG

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

That would be #8 at Green Knoll. A creek crosses the middle of the hole 3 times, OB left and the same creek with fescue on the right. You have to hit it 200 yards to carry the hazard off the tee which isn't too bad with a 45 yard wide playable landing area but you have to hit your line which I struggle with. You can't see the green on the approach so you have to aim at the center of the townhouse building as roughly the center of the green. Fortunately the green is largest on the course but the creek is in play if you hit it short.

Green Knoll #8.png

If I ever wanted a stinger type shot I could hit on a string, it would be for this hole.

  • Upvote 1

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I have a couple of them... on the same course. The don't look that difficult. The first one is the 9th hole at Lake Spanaway Golf Course. It's 468 from the forward tee, only 502 from the whites. But there's always a slight headwind blowing so your drive never goes as far as you think it will. Here's the problem: 7th hole, although parallel to 9 is protected by tall pines. The 8th hole tee is open and has a prevailing wind to your back. You just crushed your drive there. Now you're on 9 with the prevailing wind in your face and two fairway bunkers where the fairway pinches, and the rough around them isn't kind either. You have to hit the fairway or you have to hit a fantastic rescue shot. I've done that. But the green is well protected.

Lake%20Spanaway%209th_zpswke5jqi1.jpg

Then there's 15. A 390 yd par 4 dogleg left. Seems straightforward enough. But hit your tee shot too far and you're hitting off hard pan... or the cart path from which you get to drop on hard pan. Your approach shot is uphill and you can't see the green very well. Just aim right of the bunker and make sure you take enough club. Don't land right because the ball will deflect and go down into a little depression with all those bushes and trees - add a stroke or two getting out of that.

Lake%20Spanaway%2016th_zpsbeepc7oh.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Julia

:callaway:  :cobra:    :seemore:  :bushnell:  :clicgear:  :adidas:  :footjoy:

Spoiler

Driver: Callaway Big Bertha w/ Fubuki Z50 R 44.5"
FW: Cobra BiO CELL 14.5 degree; 
Hybrids: Cobra BiO CELL 22.5 degree Project X R-flex
Irons: Cobra BiO CELL 5 - GW Project X R-Flex
Wedges: Cobra BiO CELL SW, Fly-Z LW, 64* Callaway PM Grind.
Putter: 48" Odyssey Dart

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

When golf is played the way I play it every hole is a nemesis hole. But one in particular really gets into my head and it's the first hole at my parents club. Nothing remarkable about it other than trees. I don't play there often but a couple times I've been +6 after that hole and it's a bummer round after that. Last time I played it I hit 9i x3 and chipped on for a 2 putt double to avoid making a mistake and I felt like I'd won the day.

Dave :-)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Thursday I hit two OB with the 3 wood (or so I thought) and one short flare to right that went maybe 200 yards with the driver. Found the second ball on the cart path which I subsequently ended up hitting it from that location due to proximity to a worse lie. Sigh....:angry:

"My ball is on top of a rock in the hazard, do I get some sort of relief?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

No. 5 at Heritage Pointe ( Pointe Course) Calgary., AB. 454Y Par 5. Rated hardest hole on the course ( 36 holes )

It's not a long par 5, but almost impossible to get to in two shots. You can't hit driver off the tee as you can't cut the corner because it's a giant hill with pine trees on it, and there's just too much danger around the corner anyway.

So you tee off with a 200ish yard club, then you can attempt to go for it in 2 with a 3 Wood or a hard hybrid but good luck being able to stop it on the green. The problem being, is the green is elevated about 50 feet. It's a small green too. If you're short, you're on a steep bank if fescue and gorse and you likely won;t find your ball. If you're long you're up on a bank with fescue and gorse and you likely won't find your ball. The bail out is short right, which doesn't make sense because of the angle of the green. It's also severely sloped from back to front.

So you layup, leaving a ~100 yard wedge to a green you can't see. The green is divided into two parts....by an enormous slope. So if you're on the wrong side, you've either got a slow putt up a giant slope, or a putt impossible to stop near the pin. I am completely OK with a bogey/double bogey on this hole.

 

 

 

Untitled.png

:tmade: SLDR X-Stiff 12.5°
:nike:VRS Covert 3 Wood Stiff
:nike:VRS Covert 3 Hybrid Stiff
:nike:VR Pro Combo CB 4 - PW Stiff 2° Flat
:cleveland:588RTX CB 50.10 GW
:cleveland:588RTX CB 54.10 SW
:nike:VR V-Rev 60.8 LW
:nike:Method 002 Putter

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • Thanks for the feedback. @StuM, we are a "club without real estate" so no facilities or pro. We have a membership of around 185 players and we only play together as a group at our tournaments, which are held at public access courses. A group of us setup the tournaments, collect the money and dole out the prizes.
    • In general, granting free relief anywhere on the course isn't recommended.  Similarly, when marking GUR, the VSGA and MAPGA generally don't mark areas that are well away from the intended playing lines, no matter how poor the conditions.  If you hit it far enough offline, you don't necessarily deserve free relief.  And you don't have to damage clubs, take unplayable relief, take the stroke, and drop the ball in a better spot.
    • If it's not broken don't fix it. If you want to add grooves to it just because of looks that's your choice of course. Grooves are cut into putter faces to reduce skid, the roll faced putter is designed to do the same thing. I'm no expert but it seems counter productive to add grooves to the roll face. Maybe you can have it sand-blasted or something to clean up the face. Take a look at Tigers putter, its beat to hell but he still uses it.     
    • I get trying to limit relief to the fairway, but how many roots do you typically find in the fairway? Our local rule allows for relief from roots & rocks anywhere on the course (that is in play). My home course has quite a few 100 year old oaks that separate the fairways. Lift and move the ball no closer to the hole. None of us want to damage clubs.
    • Hello, I've been playing a Teardrop td17 F.C. putter for many years and love it. It still putts and feels as good or  better than any of the new putters I've tried and it's in excellent condition except the face has dings in it ever since I bought it used that kind of bother me. I was just wondering if it's possible to have some really shallow horizontal grooves milled into the face on a "roll face" putter. I think I would rather spend some money on it instead of trying to get used to a new putter.  Thanks
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...