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nevets88

People suck (drivers v. cyclists)

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Big reason I don't road bike. I love cycling and have been a nearly lifetime enthusiast but many I see appear to have a death wish. Now the driver is way reckless here but holy moly get yourself out of the path of a massive death machine.

 

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2 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

Big reason I don't road bike. I love cycling and have been a nearly lifetime enthusiast but many I see appear to have a death wish. Now the driver is way reckless here but holy moly get yourself out of the path of a massive death machine.

 

True dat!

I'm a cyclist and an avid proponent, but make no mistake, there are absolute idiots out there on bikes who think "share the road" means they can do whatever they want, and motorists need to deal with it.  They're no better ambassadors of cycling, than the obnoxious drunk playing "rat patrol" with the cart is of golf.  Neither should be considered reflective of the vast majority of those that participate in either activity though.  

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I love cycling and have been for years.  But no way in hell I will try to assert my rights on the road when I am on a bike.  I may be right to assert my rights to "share the road", but I will be dead right.

I try to ride on bike paths (fortunately a lot of those trails are available in CO as well as in CA near the beach).  If I have to ride on the road, I certainly never try to assert my rights to use the entire lane.

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Just saw this today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/06/18/man-biking-to-all-30-mlb-ballparks-for-charity-struck-by-pickup-truck/?utm_term=.bfdafbcc7f56

Quote

Lalla started his ride, which was scheduled to take him about 11,700 miles, on April 10 in Seattle. He had seen games at 10 different ballparks and was in the middle of his 820-mile leg from Houston to Atlanta when he was struck about 40 miles outside Tuscaloosa on Thursday.

Lalla underwent a six-hour surgery Friday at the University of Alabama-Birmingham Hospital and is scheduled to return home to Chicago this week. The Chicago Tribune reports that the driver of the Ford F-150 involved in the accident stopped and the accident was still under investigation.

 

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12 hours ago, Shooting29 said:

Wrong, the definition of motorist is - the driver of an automobile.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/motorist

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/motorist

A bicycle is a vehicle per your Department of Motor Vehicles. 

Quote

A bicycle is considered a "vehicle" and is supposed to obey the same traffic laws as a motor vehicle...stop signs, turning lanes, signaling a turn, etc..

 

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If you Google cyclist and death you'll get an unending list of recent hits all over the world and you'd probably never want to ride again.

I refuse to yield to fear but on the other hand I go out there with extreme caution assuming everyone will make the ignorant and/or dick move, hey it's just like driving. Look the both ways even if one way street. Assume stop signs will not be observed. Assume people will double or triple the speed limit. People suck.  Even people who try hard to obey the rules because of poor design or crazy circumstances will endanger you. 

There are carless roads out there and they are a pleasure to use. 

Just for perspective in Manhattan there are usually 15-20 cyclist deaths a year. ~40 driver/car passenger deaths due to auto accidents. Pedestrians take the brunt of it, ~250. Just recently an SUV plowed straight into pedestrians on a sidewalk in FiDi. I mean if you're just walking on the sidewalk you don't expect cars to just run into you. Accidents happen everywhere and to everyone, not just cyclists. 

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37 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

A bicycle is a vehicle per your Department of Motor Vehicles. 

Bicyclists are still not motorists. :-)

I don't want to run anyone over and give cyclists a wide berth. But many endanger themselves, too, needlessly. I've had them signal AS they cut in front of me, go 15 in a 45 two-lane road with hills and bends, etc.

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15 hours ago, David in FL said:

Where should cyclists ride?

Or should that particular mode of transportation simply be banned because you don't like it?

BTW, it's worth remembering, that cyclists are motorists too...

1. Somewhere that does not put themselves in danger, and at the VERY least, does not people others in danger.

2. First off, why are you assuming I think it should be banned? I just want people to be smarter about where they cycle and understand it's not all about them. I don't believe it's "share the road," it's "cars first, bikes second (safely)." If there's a long straight road with plenty of visibility and low traffic, knock yourself out. If you're on a windy road with extremely limited visibility - get the eff off the road; what a freaking hazard to everyone involved. 

3. I'm not here to argue semantics. I'm here to argue safety.

4. I'll have some more constructive comments to nevets88 reply:

13 hours ago, nevets88 said:

No, not in cities.

Most cyclists obey the rules, don't fly down dense areas at 20mph (It's not easy to get to that speed for many, especially sustained) and are looking to realize the environmental, convenience, quality of life, economic and health benefits of cycling. If all cyclists were to get off the road, well, lets say in NYC, where there were 14 million trips on Citi Bike in 2016 alone, that's not counting people who own their own bikes, you'd have a more congested and polluted city. Below is an image capture of bike stations from my bike share app and there is major expansion under way.

Screen Shot 2017-06-19 at 6.21.25 PM.png 

Imho, cyclists get a bad rap from the few who flaunt the rules, ride like maniacs, run red lights, salmon, ride with self entitlement who are no different than your lane weaving, tailgating, stop sign running, lane cutting, texting, weekend racing, blind you w/high beams, last second highway exiting, road raging drivers out there. Add to that the high moral ground they think they have because they are cyclists - I've run into to folks like this and have eyerolled my eyes to death.

I drive and cycle (not both at the same time) on a daily basis. Have gotten out of the car to snag a bike share and have used bike share to get to the car, ride in both dense cities and open countryside so I think I have a good perspective of both driver and cyclist and we'll have to respectfully disagree on this.

You're right. My mind is probably jaded to those a-holes on the windy roads with limited visibility, decked out in "cycling gear" huffing and puffing their way down the road weaving side to side and those same people that think "share the road, buddy! I pay for these roads too!" So we're on the same page there.

I just want people to be safe. For themselves, and be courteous of others. If cyclists can do that I don't even think twice about them - so my mind is probably loaded with the bad examples. Cities of course need to be able to support cyclists as a mode of transportation. There's (typically) ample awareness of cyclists in cities and ample infrastructure to support "pedestrians" (or cyclists) / non-motor vehicles. All well and good there. That's safe. I have no problems there.

Both parties in the video made me mad. The cyclist was covering the lane during what seems like a high traffic time of day so people can't pass him. What the driver did was worse, of course. 

If you want to ride long straight runs for exercise, choose the right street and the right time of day. Be observant and get the eff out of the way if you have 10 cars behind you. I don't care if your exercise routine is getting interrupted - that's on you.

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28 minutes ago, iacas said:

Bicyclists are still not motorists. :-)

I don't want to run anyone over and give cyclists a wide berth. But many endanger themselves, too, needlessly. I've had them signal AS they cut in front of me, go 15 in a 45 two-lane road with hills and bends, etc.

Agree they do, but cyclist are required to use all traffic laws. Many 'motorists' don't understand that. So when a cyclist signals they are taking a left and properly moves over the the center line, giving drivers plenty of warning, some drivers take offense to that thinking they are doing something wrong. Cyclists should not impede traffic, but they should be allowed to take the turn in this example.

There are many dick cyclists just as there are many dick drivers.

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It would be nice if you could see just a bit more common sense out of people. 

For the cyclists, choose the less busy roads when possible. My town has all sorts of streets that generally have little to no traffic, so why do some insist of tooling down the busiest one. Two, use the right fifth of the lane and allow cars the maximum amount of room to safely pass.

For the drivers, you've got to be aware that those guys are out there. Five years ago, I'd never see a cyclist out unless they were on the bike path or headed in that direction. Now, it's multiple every day. In places like mine, its an adjustment. Two, the road rage has got to go. Some people turn into psychos behind the wheel and if you recognize you are one of them, you need to check yourself.  

Edited by mcanadiens

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15 minutes ago, jkelley9 said:

1. Somewhere that does not put themselves in danger, and at the VERY least, does not people others in danger.

2. First off, why are you assuming I think it should be banned? I just want people to be smarter about where they cycle and understand it's not all about them. I don't believe it's "share the road," it's "cars first, bikes second (safely)." If there's a long straight road with plenty of visibility and low traffic, knock yourself out. If you're on a windy road with extremely limited visibility - get the eff off the road; what a freaking hazard to everyone involved. 

3. I'm not here to argue semantics. I'm here to argue safety.

4. I'll have some more constructive comments to nevets88 reply:

You're right. My mind is probably jaded to those a-holes on the windy roads with limited visibility, decked out in "cycling gear" huffing and puffing their way down the road weaving side to side and those same people that think "share the road, buddy! I pay for these roads too!" So we're on the same page there.

I just want people to be safe. For themselves, and be courteous of others. If cyclists can do that I don't even think twice about them - so my mind is probably loaded with the bad examples. Cities of course need to be able to support cyclists as a mode of transportation. There's (typically) ample awareness of cyclists in cities and ample infrastructure to support "pedestrians" (or cyclists) / non-motor vehicles. All well and good there. That's safe. I have no problems there.

Both parties in the video made me mad. The cyclist was covering the lane during what seems like a high traffic time of day so people can't pass him. What the driver did was worse, of course. 

If you want to ride long straight runs for exercise, choose the right street and the right time of day. Be observant and get the eff out of the way if you have 10 cars behind you. I don't care if your exercise routine is getting interrupted - that's on you.

Actually, most cities don't have "ample infrastructure" to support cyclists.  So "I don't care where they ride, just somewhere else" doesn't cut it.  It's especially unhelpful for those that choose a bike as actual transportation, to get around, rather than strictly as a form of exercise.

As I said, cyclists need to be smart, defensive, and obey the laws.  So do motorists.  Dropping the "get off my damn road" mentality would be a good small start for a lot of drivers...

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Something I notice out here is that we have a very well kept bicycle path free of motor vehicles. The cyclists don't use it preferring to ride on the skinny 2 lane road the cars use. Tough to figure that one out. 

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3 minutes ago, David in FL said:

As I said, cyclists need to be smart, defensive, and obey the laws.  So do motorists.  Dropping the "get off my damn road" mentality would be a good small start for a lot of drivers...

Obeying the laws would be nice.  I almost drove into two cyclists who decided that stop signs didn't apply to them.  Glad I noticed in time.

Remember the motto is "Share the Road".  Not "Take the Road".  I used to commute to work along a very winding country road that made it unsafe to be in the other lane for more than about 100 feet at a time.  It was not infrequent to have a cyclist going 10 mph in a 55 hanging as far to the left as he could so that I was unable to pass.  

Cyclists are a hassle on the road for cars (and vice versa).  That's simply a matter of fact.  I'm happy to put up with that hassle so they can enjoy their activities.  I do my best to get out of their way, I just want to be treated with the same courtesy.

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More and more people aren't riding for fun but for practicality, part of daily life. To go to work, go to the doctor, run errands, they're not doing the Ride for Cancer 25 miler. So it's not for leisure but for some out of necessity. Choose between waiting in a hot subway station as two trains pass me by because congestion and then get into a sardine can of a car, oh, the air conditioning is broken now I'm 15 minutes late for work or ride to work knowing that I'll get there in allotted time.

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19 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Actually, most cities don't have "ample infrastructure" to support cyclists.  So "I don't care where they ride, just somewhere else" doesn't cut it.  It's especially unhelpful for those that choose a bike as actual transportation, to get around, rather than strictly as a form of exercise.

As I said, cyclists need to be smart, defensive, and obey the laws.  So do motorists.  Dropping the "get off my damn road" mentality would be a good small start for a lot of drivers...

That's not my quote. My quote is I don't care where they ride, so long as it's safe for everyone that already uses the road, doesn't impede traffic, and everyone obeys the traffic laws (..."safety").

There's a (big) difference between a "get off my damn road" mentality and a "I'm going to make you want to get off my damn road" mentality. I am the former. I'm not going to jeopardize someone else's, and my personal safety to express my opinion/point.

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11 minutes ago, MRR said:

Obeying the laws would be nice.  I almost drove into two cyclists who decided that stop signs didn't apply to them.  Glad I noticed in time.

Remember the motto is "Share the Road".  Not "Take the Road".  I used to commute to work along a very winding country road that made it unsafe to be in the other lane for more than about 100 feet at a time.  It was not infrequent to have a cyclist going 10 mph in a 55 hanging as far to the left as he could so that I was unable to pass.  

Cyclists are a hassle on the road for cars (and vice versa).  That's simply a matter of fact.  I'm happy to put up with that hassle so they can enjoy their activities.  I do my best to get out of their way, I just want to be treated with the same courtesy.

Agree.  Cyclists that don't obey the laws are every bit as dangerous and irresponsible as motorists that don't.  They need to be treated as such by law enforcement.  Too often they're given a pass....

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1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

Agree they do, but cyclist are required to use all traffic laws. Many 'motorists' don't understand that. So when a cyclist signals they are taking a left and properly moves over the the center line, giving drivers plenty of warning, some drivers take offense to that thinking they are doing something wrong. Cyclists should not impede traffic, but they should be allowed to take the turn in this example.

Odd that you responded to my comment with that. I said nothing about cyclists who OBEY the law. I talked about cyclists doing stupid things, like going slowly on a fast road with blind spots from hills and curves, and signaling AS they turn (not before) and just cutting across traffic.

Cyclists endanger themselves (and often in doing so endanger motorists, too). That was my only point.

And like I said above, who knows how long this cyclist had been pissing off the driver. Still no excuse, or even close, but I can certainly imagine getting frustrated (again, not EVER doing what the van driver did) if I was behind a cyclist going 15 in a 45 zone for four or five miles.

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This is terrifying.  I'm trying to get back into bicycling, primarily as exercise (I don't intend to bike to work, for example).  Nothing on the highway and I'll steer well clear of main roads for quite some time.  Somehow this is still terrifying.

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