Trump Drives Cart on Green

[TN94z]

4 minutes ago, phillyk said:

It's not the damage that he personally caused, it's the damage that could be caused when everyone else starts doing the same thing.  A green is not a big space and very sensitive.  If everyone is bringing their carts onto that surface, it will die and turn to dirt.  I've seen and I'm nearly 100% sure you've seen the areas of rough/fairway that turn to dirt because everyone is driving over the same area.

He's the owner of the course, great, but he's not setting a high standard for himself or the course with a disregard to etiquette, and the potential to damage the course if done too often.

I think at the same time most people that see this realize it is Trump and realize they cannot do everything that Trump does. If I'm at my local course and I see the course Pro drive his cart across the green there, I am not going to drive my cart across it just because he did. I just don't think that people are going to see Trump do this and immediately start doing it themselves. I see people all of the time taking huge divots on practice swings and never filling those divots before they leave, but no one I play with has started doing it because they see these people do it.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Elmer said:

does the  "no harm, no foul" rule, really get used with us golfers?

Have you ever seen your superintendent drive across the green with any equipment?

6 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Don't we have a forum dedicated to rules and rules violations. Dont we spend countless non-refundable hours arguing about a playing partner who did not take a proper drop or did not mark their ball properly?

This isn't a rules question.

6 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Don't we discuss ad nauseam ethics violations on our courses?

Some of you do.

But the only reason this topic is already on its seventh page is because it's Trump.

If someone else posted a video of a random course owner driving across his own putting green, or the superintendent doing so, there would be a few posts like "well, he owns the course, and he didn't cause any damage… doesn't mean we all get to start doing it."

6 minutes ago, Elmer said:

We never once saw George Steinbrenner streak across center field during a Yankee game even thought he was the owner and it is his right to do so?

There are laws against public nudity. Bad example.

If he had a rule that all of his players had to be clean shaven but decided to grow a beard himself, well, that'd be more applicable.

6 minutes ago, Elmer said:

For someone who plays soo much golf, and takes his golf game and score seriously (google it), he simply should know better and there is simply no excuse.

Or… you've pre-judged because it's Trump.

---

Do I think he should drive across the putting green? No.

Have I heard one thing about any damage caused? No. Do I know the full story? No. Do I follow politics or have much of an opinion on Trump? No. I barely even watch the news… and 90% of the "news" I watch is @midnight.

[mcanadiens]

Obviously, its pretty small in the grand scheme of things. If we weren't golfers, it would have been forgotten by dinnertime yesterday.

What makes it obnoxious to me is that (aside from being POTUS), Trump owns all these fancy golf courses. He is a significant figure in the golf world and this is a strike against his credibility. Mostly that's his problem and not ours.

Yeah, it's his course. I guess if you apply the victim principle, the only possible harm was to the golfers that followed him that day. If Trump's cart did actual damage and effected putts, I'd be pissed after spending $200 or whatever on the round. 

Edited June 23, 2017 by mcanadiens

[Elmer]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Have you ever seen your superintendent drive across the green with any equipment?

This isn't a rules question.

Some of you do.

But the only reason this topic is already on its seventh page is because it's Trump.

If someone else posted a video of a random course owner driving across his own putting green, or the superintendent doing so, there would be a few posts like "well, he owns the course, and he didn't cause any damage… doesn't mean we all get to start doing it."

There are laws against public nudity. Bad example.

If he had a rule that all of his players had to be clean shaven but decided to grow a beard himself, well, that'd be more applicable.

Or… you've pre-judged because it's Trump.

I have never seen our club pro/superintendent drive across the green with equipment. Ground crew, YES. But that is upkeep and maintenance. 

The definition of streak is "move very fast in a specified direction". You inferred nudity. I stand by my statement. 

I may have a dislike of the man even before his became political, however wrong is still wrong to me on this issue. I do not care if it was Trump, Tiger or Jesus, you do not drive on the Green.

Would we give him a pass if he drove on the green during a PGA event? When does "owner being an owner" stop excusing this behavior?
And I know this is hypothetical, but what if he had left damage in his wake?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Elmer said:

I have never seen our club pro/superintendent drive across the green with equipment. Ground crew, YES. But that is upkeep and maintenance.

So? Had you seen it, you'd likely have thought nothing of it.

1 minute ago, Elmer said:

The definition of streak is "move very fast in a specified direction". You inferred nudity. I stand by my statement. 

No, you know as well as I do that nudity is pretty much standard with "streakers."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2084084-20-reasons-you-shouldnt-streak-in-sports

The second word in that article is "naked."

1 minute ago, Elmer said:

I may have a dislike of the man even before his became political, however wrong is still wrong to me on this issue. I do not care if it was Trump, Tiger or Jesus, you do not drive on the Green.

Yet… every day, at almost every golf course, people drive across the green.

1 minute ago, Elmer said:

Would we give him a pass if he drove on the green during a PGA event? When does "owner being an owner" stop excusing this behavior?

Let's stop short of just making shit up, okay?

1 minute ago, Elmer said:

And I know this is hypothetical, but what if he had left damage in his wake?

Again…

[Elmer]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

No, you know as well as I do that nudity is pretty much standard with "streakers."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2084084-20-reasons-you-shouldnt-streak-in-sports

The second word in that article is "naked."

Yet… every day, at almost every golf course, people drive across the green.

 

I have been to plenty of stadiums for football and baseball. Seen a lot of streakers. None of them were naked. maybe it is different in your region. 
I think in this day & age of cell phones the nudity has subsided.
Maybe it is regional, but I have squirrels that streak across my yard, taunting my dog.

Your miles may vary, but I pay money to play golf. Sometimes I pay good money to play. I want to play the course in the best possible shape. I see someone putting themselves in a position to cause damage to the course I say something and judge them harshly for their actions.
I don't care if it is the owner, Bobby Jones or G*d!
It would be no different if any of the above name decided to wack their putter head into the green in anger leaving a gash!!!!

 

[ScouseJohnny]

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

If everyone could put sirens on their hoods and drive through red lights, it would be mayhem! Guess what, everyone seems to understand that's only for police, firemen, etc.

An excellent point. Everyone who drives is conditioned by a) the law as it applies to driving a vehicle; and b) social norms when driving. Both make up the rules of driving, if you will. Naturally, there's incursion on the rules; we understand the "rolling stop" is wrong, but we don't regard it as being as bad as running a red light, or putting a siren and lights on our car to jump red lights. But we know what is right and wrong, and criticize those who don't know, or choose to ignore the rules.

Golf has its own rules - the actual rules of golf, and the accompanying part we term etiquette. The law, and the social norms.

So, we respect that firemen, policemen, and paramedics can drive through red lights in an emergency, and understand why they can, and we cannot. And we understand the benefit for this distinction.

I know we are talking of situations of vastly different degrees of seriousness here, but I guess I have to ask:

Who has the right to drive a cart on the green?

What benefit exists that grants them that right?

As Elmer said above, he knew it was wrong, or should have known it was wrong, and did it anyway.

It's a lovely day in Virginia, and I have the afternoon off. Bugger Trump and his cart. Time to go and walk 18! Hey, maybe the "healthiest man to ever run for President" could walk too, and then he wouldn't have embarrassing cart scenarios!

 

 

[bkuehn1952]

2 hours ago, nevets88 said:

I'm assuming the ring is where the green ends, he's outside of it, it looks to me.

Anyone know which hole it is? Can do a Google Maps overhead to check.

When I gave the video a second look, it sure appears that he is driving on the very manicured approach and not the green. Early in the video, one can see that the green's approach is very long.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I have been to plenty of stadiums for football and baseball. Seen a lot of streakers. None of them were naked. maybe it is different in your region.

Streaking at a sporting event heavily implies nudity. An Internet search confirms this. Back to the topic, though, eh?

7 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Your miles may vary, but I pay money to play golf. Sometimes I pay good money to play. I want to play the course in the best possible shape.

Fine, two questions for you:

1. Were you playing behind him that day?
2. Was the golf course even damaged?

If not, your outrage is misplaced.

7 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I don't care if it is the owner, Bobby Jones or G*d!

Yeah, bullshit.

7 minutes ago, Elmer said:

It would be no different if any of the above name decided to wack their putter head into the green in anger leaving a gash!!!!

Uhm, not the same scenario there at all, is it? Damage, no damage.

4 minutes ago, bkuehn1952 said:

When I gave the video a second look, it sure appears that he is driving on the very manicured approach and not the green. Early in the video, one can see that the green's approach is very long.

There appears to be a little slope there, too. We've all had times when our ball appears to be a foot from the cup, and then we get up to the green, and it's actually 15 feet away.

Trump may not have even been driving on the green.

How stupid will all of you outraged people feel if that was the case? Truth is you won't… you'll just go quiet all of a sudden.

[iacas]

As part of my procrastinating… I looked at the Trump Bedminster course on Google Earth. My imagery date is from August, 2016, so not too out of date.

I can't find the green where this supposedly occurred.

There are trees nearby. There are no bunkers nearby. The observers are filming from the direction of the approach shots, with "beyond the green" to the left.

I see no green it could be. Go ahead, flip this to satellite view and tell me…

 

[Jeremie Boop]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

As part of my procrastinating… I looked at the Trump Bedminster course on Google Earth. My imagery date is from August, 2016, so not too out of date.

I can't find the green where this supposedly occurred.

There are trees nearby. There are no bunkers nearby. The observers are filming from the direction of the approach shots, with "beyond the green" to the left.

I see no green it could be. Go ahead, flip this to satellite view and tell me…

 

I haven't found the one in the video, but I think I see bunkers behind the green. When he's driving towards the person recording and the guy in the red is near the flag it looks like I can see the lip of a bunker and a little bit of the sand directly behind the guy and the flag.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I haven't found the one in the video, but I think I see bunkers behind the green. When he's driving towards the person recording and the guy in the red is near the flag it looks like I can see the lip of a bunker and a little bit of the sand directly behind the guy and the flag.

I don't see it. But maybe. Still, which green is it?

He clearly drives over a hump, too… I'm thinking there's a growing chance he's on the fairway close to the green, but not on it.

Like I said (I think?), we've all had times where the ball looks like it's a foot from the hole only to arrive at the green and find it 15' short or behind the hole.

[Jeremie Boop]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

I don't see it. But maybe. Still, which green is it?

He clearly drives over a hump, too… I'm thinking there's a growing chance he's on the fairway close to the green, but not on it.

Like I said (I think?), we've all had times where the ball looks like it's a foot from the hole only to arrive at the green and find it 15' short or behind the hole.

I am not able to find a green even with the bunker where I think it looks like one...

It would be helpful if the person who posted the video had given more information about what hole it was and whatnot. It's not even a big deal to me overall, but it would be nice if someone could find the actual hole that this was supposed to have taken place on.

[drmevo]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't see it. But maybe. Still, which green is it?

He clearly drives over a hump, too… I'm thinking there's a growing chance he's on the fairway close to the green, but not on it.

Like I said (I think?), we've all had times where the ball looks like it's a foot from the hole only to arrive at the green and find it 15' short or behind the hole.

Not that I'm not losing any sleep over the whole thing, but for what it's worth the guy filming says he's on the green, so...?

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Yup.

People are seeing what they want to see.

Video could surface of Trump picking out a melon at the grocery store and people would bring their biases into it and see what they want to see.

Bingo.

The OUTRAGE!!!

They were doing this right ahead of our group half the round on Tuesday. I had to wash my hands a lot!

[nevets88]

2 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Not that I'm not losing any sleep over the whole thing, but for what it's worth the guy filming says he's on the green, so...?

I don't know the guy, I don't know how trustworthy he is.

[Jeremie Boop]

3 minutes ago, drmevo said:

Not that I'm not losing any sleep over the whole thing, but for what it's worth the guy filming says he's on the green, so...?

Because, depending on where you are, it can look like something is on the green when it isn't. Depending on you angle and such.

 

 

[Grinde6]

At my home course, we got the privilege of having the old asst. Superintendent from Trump National Westchester in NY work at our course for a couple years.  His wife is in the medical field so basically she wanted to move back here to be closer to her family, and he ended up coming to be the super at our course...which just this past fall she got a job out east again she could pass up so he is gone now...anywho...He told us stories of Trump coming to play at the course.  He said he was genuinely a nice guy and gave praise to the staff for their upkeep of the course.  When he played though, they (and his security) were to make sure there was nobody 4 holes ahead, and 4 holes behind him...He did say he would drive right up next to the tee boxes and the greens, but never drove on them.  He does have a great respect for the game and for his courses, so I am thinking this is more of a perception thing as @iacas said, how many times do we hit the ball onto the green and think we are 5 feet away, only to be 25 feet away.