Will the Flagstick Rule Make the Cut?

[iacas]

See the poll above.

I'm undecided myself… wishful thinking says "no." Fearful thinking says "yes."

[CarlSpackler]

I think it will be. Unfortunately...

[Piz]

I voted yes; but I'd like to have said "I hope not".  On the courses I play; a straight flagstick is an anomaly.  Most list significantly and are best attended, if not removed, if the list appears to interfere with the intended outcome.  Conventional wisdom applies and renders the proposed alteration irrelevant.  

[Hardspoon]

I think it will be in (unfortunately), because most people don't think it actually makes a difference in putting.

[David in FL]

I think it probably will.

I think pace of play and the condition of greens will both suffer. 

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

I think it probably will.

I think pace of play and the condition of greens will both suffer. 

Condition of the greens?  I ask because it's not something I've thought of and it might affect my opinion.

For now, I think the pace of play thing is going to be, at worst, a wash, and I otherwise don't really care.

In the grand scheme of things, I find the flagstick issue to be entirely inconsequential.

[Shindig]

4 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Condition of the greens?  I ask because it's not something I've thought of and it might affect my opinion.

You've seen people (with the flag out) use their putter to scoop out a ball instead of bending down?

Now imagine how they will retrieve it when the flagstick is there.  Possibilities include a putter in next to the flagstick or pulling the flagstick out hard to get the ball to pop out.

-----

I voted no -- I think the USGA and R&A will figure this one out correctly.  I will then refer to this incident as the one time an online petition (if you haven't signed it, please do so) made a difference.

[boogielicious]

I voted no, which is more wishful thinking.

[Antneye]

I signed the petition but do not think it will be successful.  Just the other day I heard one of the officials rave about that particular rule change on Golf Channel.

[David in FL]

9 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

Condition of the greens?  I ask because it's not something I've thought of and it might affect my opinion.

 

9 hours ago, Shindig said:

You've seen people (with the flag out) use their putter to scoop out a ball instead of bending down?

Now imagine how they will retrieve it when the flagstick is there.  Possibilities include a putter in next to the flagstick or pulling the flagstick out hard to get the ball to pop out.

This.  Just reaching in with your hand to retrieve the ball with the flag in can chew up the hole if you're not careful...

 

 

[Zeph]

9 hours ago, Shindig said:

You've seen people (with the flag out) use their putter to scoop out a ball instead of bending down?

Now imagine how they will retrieve it when the flagstick is there.  Possibilities include a putter in next to the flagstick or pulling the flagstick out hard to get the ball to pop out.

Ooof. People do that? Don't think I've ever seen it. Those with difficult of bending down has been using an attachment to the grip end of the putter that sucks up the ball.

I haven't read their reasoning and don't really have anything to base a guess on, but I'm hoping no.

[chilepepper]

I voted yes. But I'll still leave it in chipping off the green. Putting, depends, the flagstick is rarely straight so it can hurt you if you don't pay attention

[bkuehn1952]

Voted "yes" the proposed Rule change will stay on the docket.  If the stated goal is simplicity, making in or out irrelevant to the Rules seems to follow that idea.

[Jmdmbike]

I voted yes - I'll continue to pull the pin while putting though as thats the way I've always played.  

[David in FL]

11 minutes ago, chilepepper said:

I voted yes. But I'll still leave it in chipping off the green. Putting, depends, the flagstick is rarely straight so it can hurt you if you don't pay attention

That explains the pace of play piece in a nutshell.  Many people, now given the choice will be examining the pin to decide in or out.  Potentially times 4 for every group.  

In, out, in, out...on every hole.  Kill me now!  

[Golfingdad]

59 minutes ago, David in FL said:

This.  Just reaching in with your hand to retrieve the ball with the flag in can chew up the hole if you're not careful...

Gotcha.  I don't disagree, but I thought maybe you meant something a little more substantial.  I took the "condition of the greens" as being a more long term deal.  This would just affect the condition of the hole that day and nothing long term.

Not enough to factor into my decision not to care about this. :)

Edited July 22, 2017 by Golfingdad

[Blackjack Don]

17 hours ago, iacas said:

See the poll above.

I'm undecided myself… wishful thinking says "no." Fearful thinking says "yes."

Undecided, too. Knowledge of human nature made me say "no," but personal preference would have been "yes." Experience made me vote "no."

For me, personally, it speeds up the game. Leave it in, hit when you're ready, makes the game go much quicker.

[saevel25]

11 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

For me, personally, it speeds up the game. Leave it in, hit when you're ready, makes the game go much quicker.

I don't think it will make it go that much quicker. 

Lets say the golfer has a 40 FT putt. The golfer will need to walk 80 FT to pull the pin. The average person walks at 4.5 FT per second (3 mph). That saves 17 seconds. 

Most golfers are not going to see 40 FT putts all day long. They will probably see much less do to short game shots leaving mostly inside 20 FT putts. 

If it is a group of 3-4 people, then the time saved is marginal because the closest guy to the pin can pull it before anyone is actually ready to putt. 

Also, If golfers become more aggressive on putts, because hitting the pin helps them so much, they might actually miss many more putts. I've seen a golfer 6 putt before because they missed the hole 4 times from 15 FT. They kept blasting it back and forth. The ball never got near the hole. 

Even if it saves let say 15 seconds a hole (very conservative) just on walking time. That means you are saving 4.5 minutes. Lets say the golfer makes 3 extra putts a round due to the benefit of leaving the pin in. That means they probably save another 1.5 minutes per golfer. Maybe in a foursome they save 6-10 minutes. At best they save 15 minutes on the round on a good day. I bet most people will not even notice it.