Parity on tour

[TheArtfulDodger]

12 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Working out actually protects their bodies, not hurt it. People who tear their ACL are recommended to do weight lifting going up to the surgery because it builds muscle and reduces physical therapy. Building muscle protects the joints and ligaments from damage caused by a very athletic golf move.

 

Yes, I believe it's more that fact that some of these guys swing so hard you would think they are coming out of their shoes! Not sure extra 20 yards is worth it when you are in woods all the time and your back gives out at 40.

[saevel25]

Just now, TheArtfulDodger said:

Yes, I believe it's more that fact that some of these guys swing so hard you would think they are coming out of their shoes! Not sure extra 20 yards is worth it when you are in woods all the time and your back gives out at 40.

There is something to be said that being more physically fit does allow them to swing harder, and maybe in retrospect it might lead to more injuries. Still, I think working out does WAY more good than harm for a golfer. 

[TheArtfulDodger]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

There is something to be said that being more physically fit does allow them to swing harder, and maybe in retrospect it might lead to more injuries. Still, I think working out does WAY more good than harm for a golfer. 

Agreed, being fit is a lot more beneficial I would imagine. Although Daly is still hacking around, lol.

[Jack Watson]

7 hours ago, skydog said:

I don't know....I think parity is OK up to a point but at some point it would be nice if the current crop of young guys (Thomas, Koepka, Rahm, etc.) stepped up and started stringing together multiple major victories. A bunch of one and doners is not good for the game IMO.

More importantly (but I don't see this happening) it would be nice if some actual rivalries developed in the sport. Sports is best IMO when you have rivalries driven by mutual respect between fellow competitors paired with a bit of disdain (Byrd v Magic was the best example of this in sports history IMO). Nowadays everybody is buds and goes on Spring break together...that doesn't sit great with me. As it relates to the poor ratings, Shack calls it the Kumbaya effect. http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/14/36-2017-pga-ratings-lowest-since-08-whats-up.html

Phenomenal post.

Bird Magic wow.  Great viewing.  Set offense vs run and gun.  Contrasting styles of play.

Part of it could be contrasting styles of play as well.  In golf they are all so good now with bombing it-you have to bomb it to be on tour.

Would anyone watch a tour where the equipment was limited with a ball made to perform like balata on some tight courses?  Call it a persimmon tour or something.  My gut says no point no money no one would watch anything less than the highest level PGA.

Personally though,  I might watch if there was good talent.  A much less forgiving much higher spinning ball with maybe a requirement for real woods within a certain size and no wedges above 56 might make for more diversity in the players.  Maybe the players would be forced to work the ball more which would be great with shot tracker.

Pipe dream,  I know,  but I would watch that over anything except the majors.  

Tight holes look great on tv.  It would give more advantage to great ballstriking given the higher difficulty equipment.

I might be old fashioned but to me golf now is getting to be much more about the distance.  I'd watch a few events where a real premium is placed on striking and the equipment is classic woods.

Id love to see say three events staged with a super high spin ball for the PGA.  Tight tough courses with classic designs.  Players might want to get into those events.  Maybe it would turn into a bragging rights thing for them,  heck start with one event and see what happens.  The only sticking point I can think of is the ball.  I am sure they could come up with enough clubs...What do you think?

I think the players would be into it big time since it's something so different.

The more I think about this I really think there's a ton of potential.  A PGA retro event or two and have some ball manufacturer make a ball for it.  They all use the same ball.

Imo the idea itself has loads of potential/marketing angles.

#growgolf

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Jack Watson

[Jack Watson]

Retro event with top players forced to use inferior gear on a tough course.  Love it.  One event as a trial...Anythings possible.  

Cool commercial making fun of people like me...

No shoe requirement in the retro event...

Problem is what ball

 

Edited August 16, 2017 by Jack Watson

[skydog]

14 hours ago, saevel25 said:

There is something to be said that being more physically fit does allow them to swing harder, and maybe in retrospect it might lead to more injuries. Still, I think working out does WAY more good than harm for a golfer. 

Maybe this goes without saying but "working out" is a hugely broad concept. I think most would agree that some degree of weight and flexibility training is important for a pro golfer. It's a question of where do you draw the line and IMO the dead lifting/high impact lifting that Rory et. al are doing is complete nonsense and going to hurt their game more than it helps by shortening their careers.

Guys like Ernie, Phil, Jack, and Tom Watson who have taken a fitness approach to the game have had amazingly long careers with minimal injuries. IMO the extreme 'athlete' approach to the game gives you a career up to ~35+/- like you get out of athletes in other sports.. Frankly, I'll be amazed if Rory and Jason Day are still playing with any form by the time they're 35, which is sad to think about.

[klineka]

6 minutes ago, skydog said:

 and IMO the dead lifting/high impact lifting that Rory et. al are doing is complete nonsense and going to hurt their game more than it helps by shortening their careers.

What other exercises besides deadlifting do you consider to be high impact and detrimental to pro golfers? 

I strongly disagree that deadlifting, done with proper technique, which is a full body movement improving the entire back, hamstrings and core, will hurt their game and shorten their careers. 

I sure dont think being able to carry a 3 wood 300 yards and carry a driver 330 yds is hurting their game. Some (not all) of the longest hitters on tour are some of the ones that work out the most. 

[skydog]

48 minutes ago, klineka said:

What other exercises besides deadlifting do you consider to be high impact and detrimental to pro golfers? 

I strongly disagree that deadlifting, done with proper technique, which is a full body movement improving the entire back, hamstrings and core, will hurt their game and shorten their careers. 

I sure dont think being able to carry a 3 wood 300 yards and carry a driver 330 yds is hurting their game. Some (not all) of the longest hitters on tour are some of the ones that work out the most. 

I never said it does...I said the short term benefit of maybe being able to get a bit more distance is offset IMO by a shorter career. And bulkiness/strength does not= distance in golf.

I think the emphasis should be on high rep/relatively low weight workouts as well as flexibility.  I think the aggressive weight lifting coupled with the modern day swing (still lower body coupled with huge amount of torque on upper body) will continue to lead to shorter and shorter careers. FWIW Trevino and many others from the previous generation share this thought- there's a good discussion about it on Feherty's 100th episode.

Rory and Jason Day can hit the paint off the ball but their careers are both on the decline due to health and they're in their freakin late 20s. Tiger won his last major at 32. Something is seriously wrong with that.

Edited August 16, 2017 by skydog

[klineka]

41 minutes ago, skydog said:

I never said it does...I said the short term benefit of maybe being able to get a bit more distance is offset IMO by a shorter career. And bulkiness/strength does not= distance in golf.

I think the emphasis should be on high rep/relatively low weight workouts as well as flexibility.  I think the aggressive weight lifting coupled with the modern day swing (still lower body coupled with huge amount of torque on upper body) will continue to lead to shorter and shorter careers. FWIW Trevino and many others from the previous generation share this thought- there's a good discussion about it on Feherty's 100th episode.

Rory and Jason Day can hit the paint off the ball but their careers are both on the decline due to health and they're in their freakin late 20s. Tiger won his last major at 32. Something is seriously wrong with that.

You can deadlift with high reps and low weights, no different than any other exercise. Just because someone deadlifts as part of the regular workout routine does not mean they will become bulky. 

The exercise of deadlift is not agressive weightlifting. The deadlift is an exercise, no different than a bicep curl, a squat, a seated row, etc. Just because someone deadlifts does not mean they do a full on 100% 1 rep max test every time they deadlift. 

Here is a great video about Rory in the gym. The deadlift they show him doing is very light, assuming the hex deadlift bar is 45lbs and those plates were 45s, that is only 225 lbs, something I would bet every single guy on tour can lift. Rory open admitted in the video he has no desire to squat 500+ lbs. He knows he is a golfer and not a powerlifter. All of the other exercises he was doing showed him working his core and flexibility

 

In my opinion, I think their inability to stay healthy has much more to do with their violent aggressive swings than it does how much or how frequent they visit the gym/deadlift. 

[saevel25]

53 minutes ago, skydog said:

I think the emphasis should be on high rep/relatively low weight workouts as well as flexibility.  I think the aggressive weight lifting coupled with the modern day swing (still lower body coupled with huge amount of torque on upper body) will continue to lead to shorter and shorter careers.

http://news.ufl.edu/archive/1997/10/sports-scientists-say-weight-lifting-is-key-in-preventing-severe-injuries.html

Here is a decent article on trying to figure out which is better for joint protection, high rep or low rep.

http://www.markpieciak.com/2013/10/low-reps-high-reps-strengthen-tendons/

I will say that you are probably more likely to get injured doing low rep heavy lifting versus high rep light lifting. If you are injured I doubt you will be going at the low rep heavy lifting. Probably any sort of weight lifting is beneficial. I don't know if I can say that low rep heavy lifting will cause more or lead to more injuries. It probably is riskier.

 

[Jack Watson]

The golfers I spoke with today would love to watch a PGA persimmons and blades event.