The Golf Ball "Problem": PGA Tour Players Hitting it Far is a Problem for All of Golf?

[Jack Watson]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

Think of it this way:

Have 90% of the young guys on tour nowadays played full rounds with vintage gear? The answer is, most likely, no. These guys don't want to have to swap all their equipment out and practice with a second set of clubs and a different golf ball for 3 tournaments a year. Those 3 tournaments would be crapfests, played in only by guys desperate to make enough money to keep their tour card, because nobody else would find it worth it to waste their time on something that can't be applied to a majority of golf tournaments.

No.

These guys are rich.  Playing with some real gear on a classic track would be a great test.  It would show which of them are true golfers and would turn into a pride thing.  Any of the great ballstrikers from the vintage era would be top ten every week hitting the mod gear.  It'd be like cheating for them.  That's why past greats all agree the mod gear is not the true test.  

[Pretzel]

21 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

No.

These guys are rich.  Playing with some real gear on a classic track would be a great test.  It would show which of them are true golfers and would turn into a pride thing.  Any of the great ballstrikers from the vintage era would be top ten every week hitting the mod gear.  It'd be like cheating for them.  That's why past greats all agree the mod gear is not the true test.  

You're not really thinking logically about this. It makes zero sense for the top players of today to pick up and practice with vintage gear. It would be like if an R&D engineer decided that for 3 weeks out of the year he was going to only design and prototype using steam power. It's not only unproductive, but is in fact counterproductive. You have to remember, golf is still a job for these folks, even though to us it's a game.

You're also forgetting that many professional golfers are pretty darn superstitious, or otherwise worried about "messing up their game". It's the reason that pros like Bubba Watson played the same irons for 4-5 generations (he liked the s59's) and refuse to switch for so long. Other pros, like Dufner (played the '09 ProV1 until 2015 I believe) are the same way about a golf ball. Do you really think you can convince all of those guys to just give up the equipment they're so accustomed to and play with what is, unquestioningly, crap when compared to what they're used to? I highly doubt you'll convince them to make a change like that, only to switch back to their equipment again later just because so many pros are very particular about their equipment and don't like to swap.

It would not be a pride thing because the pride comes from winning "real" tournaments played with modern equipment. Not sure what your age is, but speaking as someone who is of a similar age to many of the guys on tour the old clubs and balls are not much more than a novelty to hit on the range or for a couple of holes once or twice. It holds no nostalgic sway for most golfers under the age of 30.

[Jack Watson]

@Pretzel

Its not nostalgia;  it's a desire to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Old gear is not CRAP. 

Whats crap is 460 cc drivers and a ball that is hard to even curve.  This enables everyone to swing out of their shoes with no consequence.  Snooze.

[RussUK]

4 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

@Pretzel

Its not nostalgia;  it's a desire to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Old gear is not CRAP. 

Whats crap is 460 cc drivers and a ball that is hard to even curve.  This enables everyone to swing out of their shoes with no consequence.  Snooze.

I dont think Jordan Speith would agree with that, unless he meant to play his shot from the lorries at the open

Sure the 460's are more forgiving but if you make a club larger its a natural instinct to try and hit it harder. Bigger head, easier to hit is the common thought process. Doesnt always work out like that though.

I do think the size of drivers for the pro's should be decreased but still using modern materials and tech.

[NJpatbee]

The USGA and R&A have responsibility for defining and regulating the rules and equipment of the game and I believe that today's limits are reasonable while also allowing for the advances in equipment over the last 30 years.  Many of the courses that hosted tournaments in the past still have the length or have made minor modifications to allow for the increased distances.  A few of them are way too short to host a PGA Tournament and so be it.  I live not too far from a course that hosted the Eastern Open 3 times in the 1920's and is 6237 yards from the tips - no chance for another Tour event but it can still give the majority of golfers fits!.  Courses that are incented to host a tournament can do what they want to accommodate 340 yard drives, or do nothing at all.  There are plenty of courses available to handle today's pro length and tournaments, some of them classics, so why should we be alarmed?   

The PGA Tour can do whatever they want with the ball but I doubt that they want the distance rolled back.  I do not think there is a need to given the current equipment limitations nor do I believe pro or am golfers, golf ball manufacturers, or PGA Tour sponsors see it as in their best interest.  For myself, I will stick to USGA conforming balls and hope there is no bifurcation of the balls, or any other equipment.  I enjoy playing by the same rules as all other golfers which for me is part of the attraction and history of the game. 

[iacas]

@Jack Watson, admit it. You gave up on being a reasonable poster weeks ago and are just trolling us now.

If not, .

[GolfLug]

15 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

@Pretzel

Its not nostalgia;  it's a desire to separate the wheat from the chaff.  Old gear is not CRAP. 

Whats crap is 460 cc drivers and a ball that is hard to even curve.  This enables everyone to swing out of their shoes with no consequence.  Snooze.

Which driver is that?? Which ball is that??? Where can I find them?? 

[phillyk]

6 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Which driver is that?? Which ball is that??? Where can I find them?? 

Krank Formula 7 with a Pinnacle Gold golf ball.

[MrDC]

Golf is a far better game when the entire bag is challenged, where choices are presented to the player, and shot shapes are needed to excel, risk reward, various clubs off the tee.

The game has gotten away from all this because of length, now we see driver-wedge all too often, the courses had no choice but to move the tees back and that leaves nothing interesting about the holes, because they weren't designed to push the tees back, now its just hit the ball 300 yds, roll out to 350 and enjoy a nice approach.

Another bad thing about it is what's happening with the players, young kids are coming up all about driver, driver and more driver, if you can't hit it 300 yds you're no pro, you'll never be a pro, even though the kid can probably hit every shot imaginable, just pick your shape, a surgeon around the greens, but he's no pro because he's only 250 off the tee, it's sad.

[phillyk]

12 minutes ago, MrDC said:

Another bad thing about it is what's happening with the players, young kids are coming up all about driver, driver and more driver, if you can't hit it 300 yds you're no pro, you'll never be a pro, even though the kid can probably hit every shot imaginable, just pick your shape, a surgeon around the greens, but he's no pro because he's only 250 off the tee, it's sad.

If he's only 250 off the tee, then even with roll-backs, he'll still be wayyyyy behind the long hitters.  Distance is a skill, not a magic trick that can just vanish.

[klineka]

29 minutes ago, MrDC said:

Golf is a far better game when the entire bag is challenged, where choices are presented to the player, and shot shapes are needed to excel, risk reward, various clubs off the tee.

The game has gotten away from all this because of length, now we see driver-wedge all too often, the courses had no choice but to move the tees back and that leaves nothing interesting about the holes, because they weren't designed to push the tees back, now its just hit the ball 300 yds, roll out to 350 and enjoy a nice approach.
 

Of approx. 190 golfers last year on the PGA tour, only 43 guys averaged over 300 yards (total distance) off the tee, thats only 22%. Most of those guys that are just over 300 yds are probably only carrying it 280yds or so.

The furthest 2 drivers, Rory and DJ, averaged 317 and 315 total distance, not carry. For them, carry is probably averaging 290-300. 

There were only 14 golfers last year who managed to hit 30% or more of their drives 320+ yds, and the PGA tour doesnt even have a categorical breakdown of drives that goes up to 350 because it simply doesnt happen all that often. 

Why is it a bad thing if kids today are all about driver, driver, driver? That will ultimately help them score the lowest. Its better than 10 years ago when kids were taught "drive for show, putt for dough"

Edited October 16, 2017 by klineka

[iacas]

42 minutes ago, MrDC said:

now its just hit the ball 300 yds, roll out to 350 and enjoy a nice approach.

Really? That’s your game? Congrats.

Point is what a small teeny chunk of golfers do is not “the game.”

[rehmwa]

A couple things IMHO, YMMV

1 - vintage tournament:  As a FAN of golf and today's pros, I think it would be really cool.  The Hickory Open doesn't count for me as it's not the same pros I see every week.  It would be huge fundraiser and they should go all out and even dress like the oldies.  BUT - I even if as a fan I'd find it a novelty and fun, I don't see any reason the best pros would bother to sign up.  So that's a non-starter.  Still would be cool.

2 - The idea that Jack and Gary are petty enough to begrudge the equipment is laughable.  They are not petty at all and it seems they are genuinely impressed with the new generation(s) of golfers and want them to succeed and make huge splashes in the game (these guys understand that the activity only grows if there are superstars drawing spectators and sponsors).  I'm sure they are very sincere in their beliefs on the subject - I also think they are wrong on it.  I think the only other thing in play with those guys is they are golf course designers, and accommodating today's length makes that job more of a challenge.  But, conversely, I also bet it can open up a lot of interesting ideas when the builder can give up the right stretch of land.

[joro]

Phillyk, that is exactly my point, why should the kid with all the shots be considered not in because he is only a 250 hitter.     Bring the course, or Ball, or Driver back so his talent can be used.   It is like saying he is a great player but should not be there.     Shorten it and put some skill into the game other than just raw power.     This whole thing is getting out of hand and it is too bad.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, joro said:

Phillyk, that is exactly my point, why should the kid with all the shots be considered not in because he is only a 250 hitter.     Bring the course, or Ball, or Driver back so his talent can be used.   It is like saying he is a great player but should not be there.     Shorten it and put some skill into the game other than just raw power.     This whole thing is getting out of hand and it is too bad.

Power is a skill. Shorten the ball and he’s still gonna be a short hitter.

[Pretzel]

16 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

Old gear is not CRAP. 

If it's not crap, by comparison, why are more players not using it today?

16 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

Its not nostalgia;  it's a desire to separate the wheat from the chaff.

They already do that. It happens every week during tournaments, with bigger tournaments 4 times a year to add in more pressure. Using different equipment just for the sake of using old equipment is for nostalgic purposes only.

16 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

Whats crap is 460 cc drivers and a ball that is hard to even curve.  This enables everyone to swing out of their shoes with no consequence.  Snooze.

So you're saying it takes no skill and is boring to hit the ball very far? Tell me, what's your average driving distance and how often do you hit the fairway with these balls that are hard to even curve?

Edited October 16, 2017 by Pretzel

[rehmwa]

13 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

 these balls that are hard to even curve?

I'd like a box of those please.....I'll trade some nearly new ones for them (you can find 4 in the left side woods on #8 at White Eagle).

 

On another note

I'm a fairly long hitter (especially "for my age"  sigh....).  and I always take stock of my bag and see if I've used the entire set - if not, I don't whine about "equipment advantage", I just take note of it and try a different tee set next time at that course....  I like to hit all the clubs too.

Edited October 16, 2017 by rehmwa

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, MrDC said:

Golf is a far better game when the entire bag is challenged, where choices are presented to the player, and shot shapes are needed to excel, risk reward, various clubs off the tee.

Just hit into the trees, you'll get all this and more.