The Golf Ball "Problem": PGA Tour Players Hitting it Far is a Problem for All of Golf?

[inthehole]

As I've said before, every golfer should be issued 2 sleeves of "tour quality" balls every day at every event.   Same as tennis.   Same as hockey.  Same as pool/billiards.   Golf is the only sport I can think of off the top of my head where the contestants get to choose their own ball..   Professional players should be able to adapt to whatever tour quality ball they are supplied with.  Then the distances could be better managed/controlled. No matter what ball they're supplied with, Dustin is going to hit it farther than Zack - so the field will continue to separate by distance as it always has.

 

PS - if Jack and Lee say the modern ball goes too far, it goes too far.

Edited September 17, 2017 by inthehole

[Lihu]

22 minutes ago, inthehole said:

As I've said before, every golfer should be issued 2 sleeves of "tour quality" balls every day at every event.   Same as tennis.   Same as hockey.  Same as pool/billiards.   Golf is the only sport I can think of off the top of my head where the contestants get to choose their own ball..   Professional players should be able to adapt to whatever tour quality ball they are supplied with.  Then the distances could be better managed/controlled. No matter what ball they're supplied with, Dustin is going to hit it farther than Zack - so the field will continue to separate by distance as it always has.

 

PS - if Jack and Lee say the modern ball goes too far, it goes too far.

All the sports you listed don't make the pros shoot, hit or play shorter so I'm not sure how hitting standardized golf balls would control or manage distances?

Also, the PGA tour are not the longest hitters. It seems like Web players hit farther on average.

PGA tour golf courses are actually quite difficult to stay in bounds even if you hit short, but exponentially harder if you hit longer. The pros not only out distance us amateurs but they also hit much straighter. Hitting long and straight is what makes them pros and the rest of us dweebs even if we do hit as long. 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Lihu

[iacas]

43 minutes ago, inthehole said:

Golf is the only sport I can think of off the top of my head where the contestants get to choose their own ball

Darts players choose their own darts. Bowlers choose their own balls. Archers choose their own arrows.

Tennis, baseball, etc. have a shared ball.

In sports where things are not shared, players choose their own.

[inthehole]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

so I'm not sure how hitting standardized golf balls would control or manage distances?

 The technology exists to make a tour quality limited flight ball.   Thats the whole premise of "dialing it back" that seems to be a hot topic of discussion lately.   Most importantly, the pro's don't have to like it.    If the PGA mandates it, they'll like it plenty if they pocket $1M on a sunday...

[billchao]

5 hours ago, IrishAndy said:

I could set up a kid's obstacle course with a high obstacle in the middle that half of the kids couldn't get over and half could.  That would be 'fair' to some because it's the same course, but that doesn't make something intrinsically 'fair' IMO.  We'll just have to disagree, and that's just fine.

You're misconstruing the word "fair" with "equal" I think. Fair is everyone having the same obstacle course, not necessarily that everyone is capable of passing it. If anything, manipulating the course so that everyone has an equal chance to complete it is inherently unfair to the kids who are capable of completing the tougher course above and beyond the others.

---

As for golf, even if you put a hazard on every hole at 300 yards out, thus limiting the ability of the bombers to bomb their tee shots, they are still going to have an advantage over shorter hitters because they will still have a shorter club in their hands for the next shot. It's the same thing if the ball was made to travel less distance. All it would really accomplish by manipulating the course or the ball is to limit the skillset of a particular group of players who are capable of hitting driver-wedge on most holes simply because some people don't think golf should be played driver-wedge every hole.

[inthehole]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Darts players choose their own darts. Bowlers choose their own balls. Archers choose their own arrows.

Tennis, baseball, etc. have a shared ball.

In sports where things are not shared, players choose their own.

OK, I get that ... but ... does golf HAVE to be a sport where (professional) players get to chose their own ball ?    Taking the grumbling from the players, the money surely lost by the ball manufacturers out of the equation ... the PGA needs to be more like NASCAR - it's their sandbox and if you want to play in it, you do what you're told (if it's their belief it's in the best interest of the sport).    

Edited September 17, 2017 by inthehole

[billchao]

1 minute ago, inthehole said:

OK, I get that ... but ... does golf HAVE to be a sport where (professional) players get to chose their own ball ?    Taking the grumbling from the players, the money surely lost by the ball manufacturers out of the equation if the majority of the governing body believes a dialed back ball will help the sport (lets not argue this point, lets just assume the decision has been made that the ball must be dialed back) ?

I feel like you're making a contrived discussion by making that last assumption. As it is, lots of people don't agree that dialing the ball back will help the golf and that length on tour is hurting the game.

I'd make the argument right now that millions of dollars lost by ball manufacturers alone will hurt the game.

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, inthehole said:

 The technology exists to make a tour quality limited flight ball.   Thats the whole premise of "dialing it back" that seems to be a hot topic of discussion lately.   Most importantly, the pro's don't have to like it.    If the PGA mandates it, they'll like it plenty if they pocket $1M on a sunday...

This goes back to the topic which is really a non-existent problem.

Why do you want pros to use limited flight balls?

Why does it matter to you if the pros use the same ball you use or another equivalent one?

What is your motive for arguing that there is a problem?

[inthehole]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

This goes back to the topic which is really a non-existent problem.

Why do you want pros to use limited flight balls?

Why does it matter to you if the pros use the same ball you use or another equivalent one?

What is your motive for arguing that there is a problem?

ask Jack, he knows a bit more about the subject than I do.  Personally, I just don't like the idea of having to lengthen courses to hold PGA events.

[Lihu]

Just now, inthehole said:

ask Jack, he knows a bit more about the subject than I do.  Personally, I just don't like the idea of having to lengthen courses to hold PGA events.

The courses are played by pros at their lengthened distances because they can, we can't.

I'm still curious why you think this is so important?

[inthehole]

7 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The courses are played by pros at their lengthened distances because they can, we can't.

I'm still curious why you think this is so important?

I feel like you're trying to trap me ... I'm certainly not as knowledgeable on this subject as many here, it's basically just an opinion.   Seems we often hear about having to reconfigure courses by moving the pro tee's back - it's the equipment and the ball that is necessitating this & it's easier to change the ball than the equipment --- IF --- the governing body wants to put a stop to this trend.  Plus I like Jack Nicklaus, and I respect his opinion on this subject.

Edited September 17, 2017 by inthehole

[Lihu]

10 minutes ago, inthehole said:

I feel like you're trying to trap me ... I'm certainly not as knowledgeable on this subject as many here, it's basically just an opinion.

Not at all, I'm really curious why there are so many people (1 in 5 on this site so far) who think this is a serious issue? I'd be curious why everyone else who voted it would be a problem to explain why as well.

My personal preference is for everyone to hit as far as possible. If we see single round scores that hover around 54 for the entire field, then I could be convinced that there might be a problem.

My reasoning is simple. Keep golf uniform. If USGA decided to make all balls limited flight, then I'd say go for it. However, just limiting the pros seems a bit odd? I don't understand it. I've given it some thought, but still don't understand it?

 

Quote

Seems we often hear about having to reconfigure courses by moving the pro tee's back - it's the equipment and the ball that is necessitating this & it's easier to change the ball than the equipment --- IF --- the governing body wants to put a stop to this trend.

As above, either make everyone use limited flight balls or no one. Seems more reasonable to me.

The game would not be all that spectacular especially to non players who think "My son or daughter hit just as far as the pros." while in reality they hit 10 or 20 or whatever percentage shorter due to pros using limited flight balls.

I would find the game extremely boring if the pros are hitting it on average as far as I'm hitting the ball. I'm more impressed by their distances. I enjoy watching pros average 300 yards just like I enjoy watching any other professional sport athlete doing things I can't do.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Lihu

[phillyk]

4 minutes ago, inthehole said:

I feel like you're trying to trap me ... I'm certainly not as knowledgeable on this subject as many here, it's basically just an opinion.   Seems we often hear about having to reconfigure courses by moving the pro tee's back - it's the equipment and the ball that is necessitating this & it's easier to change the ball than the equipment --- IF --- the governing body wants to put a stop to this trend.  Plus I like Jack Nicklaus, and I respect his opinion on this subject.

There are multiple reasons for longer hitters, but if they want to roll distance back, choose something that's not directly changing the players equipment or physicality.  Adjust the course conditions set up for these guys.  

Look at the BMW right now, they are carrying it near 300yd sure, but with practically no roll.  The course is about the standard 7200yds.  Scores are close to what you'd expect for a tournament.  You don't need to lengthen a course when fairways are not rolling out.  Once you get those 20yd bounces and 30yds of roll, then we have a problem and need to water the FW or at least grow the grass a bit more to stop the roll out.  

Another eg was Chambers Bay.  On TV those FW rolled an absolute mile giving guys 400yd drives or something, but in my round on a normal day, barely anything.

I think equipment is fine, just stop drying out the courses so much.  Dry the greens sure, but make the FW's soft.

[iacas]

3 hours ago, inthehole said:

OK, I get that ... but ... does golf HAVE to be a sport where (professional) players get to chose their own ball ?    Taking the grumbling from the players, the money surely lost by the ball manufacturers out of the equation ... the PGA needs to be more like NASCAR - it's their sandbox and if you want to play in it, you do what you're told (if it's their belief it's in the best interest of the sport).    

I disagree.

And I don't think this is a problem for all of golf. At all.

[djake]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:16 PM, MarvChamp said:

I have been thinking about this topic (I know...Dangerous to see me thinking) and doing a little reading up on it.

Has the USGA lost touch with the non-professional golfer, the regular Joes and Joanies? It seems all the limitations imposed on MOI, size of drivers, etc. and these discussions about golf ball limits are all about the pros. The limitations USGA wants are those they think limit the pros from hitting it too far. But are pros all that concerned about MOI, for example? 

No, the people hurt by the limitations are the majority of the USGA members and the regular guys and girls who DO NOT HIT THE BALL FAR ENOUGH (despite what they say about how far they hit it, I recall studies showing that MOST do not)!

The USGA is wrong-headed and just wrong. Courses are longer and even with the push to "Play It Forward,  the "normal" golfer takes a beating. I want golf to be very challenging, but I don't want to take a beating.  Maybe I'm seeing too much of myself here; those are just my thoughts. -Marv

+1 on your entire statement. 

[Moxley]

No problem - if we can all hit it a little further , we should all enjoy the game more. And anything that serves to accentuate the difference between golfers of differing skill levels is also welcome (and I say that as a technically weak golfer).

[RussUK]

The problem with this sort of "issue" is that its impossible to please everyone. There was a lot of talk about bi-furcation in regard to equipment and while the likes of making pro's use approved distance/spin limited balls and smaller headed drivers wouldnt make much difference to the pro's (lets face it, most pro's could get under par using range balls and charity shop clubs) its the average Joe that it effects more.

We want to be able to use the same equipment as the pro's even if that means we dont hit as far.

Thinking back to my above comment, maybe that would be a good Vlog the resident pro's here. Buy some cheap old clubs and range balls and see what they shoot.

[RickPro]

you know it is a problem when golf courses have to change the original and beautiful layout to accommodate professional competition.