• Announcements

    • iacas

      Introducing TST "Clubs!"   08/28/2017

      No, we're not getting into the equipment business, but we do have "clubs" here on TST now. Groups. Check them out here:
iacas

The Golf Ball "Problem": PGA Tour Players Hitting it Far is a Problem for All of Golf?

The Golf Ball "Problem"  

103 members have voted

  1. 1. Does the distance modern PGA Tour pros hit the ball pose a problem to golf as a whole?

    • Yes
      25
    • No
      78
  2. 2. What is the main source of the "problem" above?

    • The golf ball goes too far, primarily.
      19
    • Several factors all contribute heavily.
      9
    • I voted "No" above, and I don't think there's really a "problem" right now.
      75


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

@Vinsk

I am sorry you shank.  I am and I offered a suggestion to help not sure if you tried it.  I only ask that if you disagree with me please present supporting evidence.  

Snedeker agrees with @joro and I.  You have yet to make a counter argument.  

I don't think you have one.  

Not sure what my shanks have to do with this. Pretty childish of you really. But anyway, I believe @billchao did just fine. And you didn’t address the idea that the older guys would think Hogan/Snead era gear was garbage? You’re playing the classic “when I was young I walked to school uphill both ways in the snow” cliche. Every sport evolves as well as its athletes. You’ve thrown the towel in on becoming your best by simply convincing yourself Golf is too easy too put any work in it.  And yes, my shanks are under better control than ever. I just make sure my pre-frontal Cortex is communicating with my medulla oblongata all while ensuring the corpus collosum isn’t allowing too much interference. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

@Vinsk 

You have not shown a shred of evidence to support your view as I did.  Snedeker agrees with me and he shot 80 with vintage gear. 

Where is your evidence?  I offered mine.

Platitudes do not qualify as arguments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jack Watson, I think you know as well as I that the USA Today article is garbage in terms of saying pros want to play full tournaments with hickory. In fact, one of the first quotes in the video was, "Wouldn't want to play them from the tees we play nowadays". The the most praise they got was that the person "enjoyed the hit" or that it felt soft, but the soft wasn't necessarily good considering one of the pros likened it to "a bar of soap".

7 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

The new stuff makes golf easier.

In other words, the old equipment is garbage (crap) by comparison. It's the same as if you compared a Ford Pinto to a modern Ford Focus: the Pinto is crap by comparison (though there are a few who have a nostalgic infatuation with the older one).

 

7 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

My point is that tour players have some pride.  They would want to win regardless.  I'd bet many on tour couldn't break 76 with vintage gear because their ballstriking is not good enough to use it.  Snedeker tried it and look what happened.  They should have enough pride to actually want to do this.  Let's see who can REALLY hit it.

My point is that what you think, "They should have enough pride to actually want to do this," has absolutely no bearing on reality. The pros have nothing to gain from playing this event, besides maybe to blow off some steam as a joke. It certainly wouldn't count towards the FedEx cup and they'd have to devote extra time to practice with equipment that, quite frankly, no longer is relevant or matters anywhere outside of a history museum. 

I'd be willing to bet $100 that a survey of all pros on tour would show more against such an event than in favor of it. I understand that you very much want to see the event happen, but you should also be able to understand the reasons why such an event would never happen and why a majority of the golfers would be against it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

7 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

@Vinsk 

You have not shown a shred of evidence to support your view as I did.  Snedeker agrees with me and he shot 80 with vintage gear. 

Where is your evidence?  I offered mine.

Platitudes do not qualify as arguments.

One tour player agreeing with you out of hundreds doesnt really make for strong evidence. 

Interesting how you felt the need to start an additional forum post/poll just to prove your point, even though the majority of the people so far 9 out of 16 votes have said they either dont want to see it, or dont care. Keep in mind that is on a forum for dedicated golfers. If more than half of dedicated golfers in a forum wouldnt want to see it, surely the general public would have very little interest in it, which is the reason that tournaments even exist, because there is enough public interest for the course/PGA to make money on each event. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

14 hours ago, Jack Watson said:

@Vinsk 

You have not shown a shred of evidence to support your view as I did.  Snedeker agrees with me and he shot 80 with vintage gear. 

Where is your evidence?  I offered mine.

Platitudes do not qualify as arguments.

I think you’ve lost it. What evidence are you thinking exists? You’re stating one of your many nonsensical opinions. Tour players prefer old gear? New stuff is crap? It has made golf easy? Honesty, you sound pretty silly. I’m done with your trolling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

@Vinsk

Find a mod PGA guy who says the olden times players were not as good as they are now.  Present evidence...

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/how-would-modern-tour-pros-do-hitting-ben-hogans-old-clubs-we-had-them-try-and-it-wasnt-pretty

I challenge anyone to present evidence that modern tour players think that they are better than their predecessors...

This is a simple fact.  The old times players had to strike with greater precision.

Edited by Jack Watson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is all getting a little OT so I may move it, but...

28 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

This is your evidence? Guys can't hit Ben Hogan's clubs which are well known to be something like 7° flat or something ridiculous like that? Wooden clubs are heavier, too, aren't they? So they gave a bunch of players a club that's shorter, heavier, and flatter than anything they're used to hitting. No duh they can't hit it properly.

Why don't you try building some wooden clubs that suit their swing better and then see how they do?

28 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Find a mod PGA guy who says the olden times players were not as good as they are now. 

I challenge anyone to present evidence that modern tour players think that they are better than their predecessors...

Of course you're not going to find that. Nobody with any respect for their peers and predecessors or the tradition of the game will come out and say these things, at least publicly. This proves nothing about your position.

31 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

This is a simple fact.  The old times players had to strike with greater precision.

I even acknowledged this in my post earlier, which you didn't respond to.

Yes, today's pros can get away with mis-hits more because of modern equipment. That doesn't mean they aren't capable of this mythical greater precision you seem to only attribute to past PGA Tour players. It's just that their equipment is more forgiving so they swing for the fences more. If they had to dial it back and swing solely with the purpose of hitting the sweetspot every single time, they'll figure out how to do it.

Golf skill didn't magically disappear through the generations. The best players of previous generations swung hard with a lot of precision. The best players today do, too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

I challenge anyone to present evidence that modern tour players think that they are better than their predecessors...

Jack Nicklaus has said so.

Said the modern top 30 or do would have been superstars in his era. Said the players are all better nowadays.

Jack competed against Club pros for crying out loud.

Paging @Phil McGleno?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Jack Nicklaus has said so.

Said the modern top 30 or do would have been superstars in his era. Said the players are all better nowadays.

Jack competed against Club pros for crying out loud.

Paging @Phil McGleno?

That's not a correct paraphrasing of what he said in my way.  He said the players at the top today would equal the superstars.  Not top thirty.  He also said this:

even more unfortunate to my mind than the impact of equipment advances on our finest courses is their contribution to the homogenizing of the players. Simply put, the more forgiving the tools, the tougher it becomes for the best to rise above the rest. Much as Seve Ballesteros and Nick Faldo, for example, stood out from the crowd in their peak years, I believe their talent and dedication would have separated them even more had all the players still competed with the equipment of my early professional years.

Facts are facts.  Less forgiving equipment took more skill.  No one can argue that.

he owned his swing and almost no one thinks that's even possible now and that's sad.  

Edited by Jack Watson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

That's not a correct paraphrasing of what he said in my way.

I disagree. He's said players today are higher skilled. They are. He's said the top players would have been superstars in his day. "Top players" is a larger number than the number of "superstars" in his day. He played against club pros. The modern player is more skilled.

8 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Facts are facts.  Less forgiving equipment took more skill.  No one can argue that.

That doesn't mean - not one little bit - that the players WERE more skilled. Too many other things changed, too, for you to say anything.

I think history would side against you. Players in EVERY sport have gotten better. Golf is no different. Players today are more skilled than players in the past.

The facts are against you there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now