Watching some random golf videos and saw some instruction that seems to indicate a different swing for driver and irons?

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

14 clubs.  One basic swing.

Depending on how precise you get with that… maybe. But no.

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Modern drivers/fw woods are too long.  43-44 inches is perfect for driver.  Teeing way high is great for spraying the ball.

Unless it's not.

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

The changes you see when slo mo analyzing are a result of the players intent with the clubhead going through.

Uh? It's a different swing. Different goals. Different setup. Different ball location. Different dynamics.

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

If you're gonna argue that driver is a diff swing why not be consistent and say now you need 14 swings not just one.  All the clubs are diff.

Because the other clubs you hit off the ground.

Sorry, the driver swing's a bit different than your 6-iron swing. Which is also a bit different than your knockdown wedge swing. Which is different than your putting stroke, or a pitch, or a bunker shot, or a chip…

Golf does require a lot of different swings. The driver is one of them.

6 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Driver is a tough club to consistently manipulate ones swing and do well.  Driver is one where you need a good swing and you need to let physics take place.  You can't guide the thing and be good.

Why do you have to "manipulate" it?

Why not just have a driver swing that's your driver swing?

I do. Good players do.

---

It's not like it's entirely different. It's just different enough for me to call it a "different" swing. Again, different goals (not trying to hit it 177 yards exactly), different setup (ball teed up, not sitting on the ground, so low point control matters less), different tools (club not made to interact with the ground, very large hitting area, etc.), and so on.

[Jack Watson]

It's counterproductive to espouse a driver requiring a different swing.

Most people's problem is they get that great big driver in hand and value distance over direction.  They wanna kill it.  So yes,  poor golfers absolutely us a diff swing on driver.

Good golfers SWING that clubhead.  The club does the work.  The golf club is operated by swinging.  A good driver is someone putting that tee ball into the fairway time and again.

I am sure now everyone will chime in with stats that say driving far is more important than driving straight.  Reality is you can play most courses hitting a nice 220 drive just fine if you know how to swing the clubs.

This myth of just get it out there far off the tee is what most crap golfers are already trying to do   It's part of the reason they are crap.

YEAH get that big old ti driver and WAIL away!  

GOOD GOLF IS BASED ON CONSISTENT CONTROL.  This is achieved by understanding how to use the clubs.  Most would drive much farther and straighter by doing less tan they do right now.

jmo

 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

It's counterproductive to espouse a driver requiring a different swing.

Nah.

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Good golfers SWING that clubhead. The club does the work.

Again, the golfer does the work on the club. The club doesn't do anything on its own.

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

A good driver is someone putting that tee ball into the fairway time and again.

Nah.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02567.html vs. https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.102.html

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

I am sure now everyone will chime in with stats that say driving far is more important than driving straight.  Reality is you can play most courses hitting a nice 220 drive just fine if you know how to swing the clubs.

Dude, c'mon.

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

This myth of just get it out there far off the tee is what most crap golfers are already trying to do   It's part of the reason they are crap.

What's that have to do with this topic?

Who here is espousing just wailing away and getting it as far out there as possible?

Nobody.

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

YEAH get that big old ti driver and WAIL away!

Straw man argument. Nobody's saying that.

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

GOOD GOLF IS BASED ON CONSISTENT CONTROL.  This is achieved by understanding how to use the clubs.  Most would drive much farther and straighter by doing less tan they do right now.

Still not the topic.

[billchao]

4 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

So just wondering....was there ever a time before 460cc drivers, that the swing wasn't considered too different from your iron/wood swing?

I would guess that back in the days of wooden heads and balata balls, the driver swing might be more similar to the iron swing than it is today. I read somewhere that pros used to have to hit down on the driver because the old balls were easier to control with more backspin.

Still, it's not quite the same and there are plenty of pros today who hit down on the driver.

4 hours ago, cutchemist42 said:

Did the switch to bigger drivers cause the different swing?

I think it contributes, but it's not the sole factor or even the most important one. Bigger head means you have to tee it up more and a larger face affects bulge and roll, but I think improvements in technology and design in clubs, shafts, and balls all affect how the swing is today.

With the advent of radar technology, we've learned that higher launch with less spin increases distance and hitting up is one way to achieve that, along with club design.

So I think the bigger heads played a role, but the bigger heads themselves are just part of the progression of golf knowledge and technology. 

[Lihu]

On 9/26/2017 at 4:41 PM, Lihu said:

Tried this out on the range, of course it's going to take time to learn better. But other than hitting a slight pull, the balls went really high and pretty far after I teed up very high. Not sure if it's longer than my normal drive, as I hadn't tried it on the course yet.

The general principle seems to work!?!

Yup, longer, but the towering nature of the shot really needs to be tamed in. It's prone to more OB or lateral only because the ball launches higher and carries farther.

[Buckeyebowman]

Even back when I played my old persimmon woods, I teed the Driver higher than any other club in a situation where a tee was called for. And my Driver head was smaller than many 3 wood heads today!

I sometimes wonder if such small club heads didn't cause us to develop more precise swings!

A friend of mine suffers with this problem. He wants to hit the Driver with an iron swing. He tees the ball low, which encourages you to hit down on it, which also encourages an outside in swing, and he flares shots to the right.

I keep telling him to bring the tee up a bit so he can sweep it more, and approach the ball from square to a little inside out. He won't do it. He tees his Driver where I'd tee a 3 wood!

 

[nevets88]

So how different is a driver swing off the deck? I guess similar to a 3W. Somewhere in between a driver and a long iron swing.

[baw1]

So what are the actual swing differences (according to the video)?

From what I can understand she advocates more focus on the core on the driver downswing and less hip "bump". Sorta opening up more but not actively trying to move laterally? She also talks about trying to keep the back foot planted for as long as possible (even before impact).

[Lihu]

16 hours ago, baw1 said:

So what are the actual swing differences (according to the video)?

From what I can understand she advocates more focus on the core on the driver downswing and less hip "bump". Sorta opening up more but not actively trying to move laterally? She also talks about trying to keep the back foot planted for as long as possible (even before impact).

I wasn't actually following the video, but what surprised me was that the swing is different between iron shots and driver. The video was more for cuteness factor.

What I did was to follow the section in LSW about driver setup, and I added big distance gains recently. I went from something like a -2 degree attack angle to more than a 5 degree one. Didn't measure the 5 degrees, but the ball is going really high now. I assume it must be more than 5.

[baw1]

55 minutes ago, Lihu said:

but what surprised me was that the swing is different between iron shots and driver.

 I was too and have never really heard anyone say that. I have mostly read and heard that it's the same swing just different ball position at address. My instructor has also repeatedly told me this (same swing). Now some of this can be language/semantics. Meaning that many of the same/important principles still apply and therefore we should consider them as the "same".

However, my sense/thinking has always been more inline with Eric's comment here: https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/95421-watching-some-random-golf-videos-and-saw-some-instruction-that-seems-to-indicate-a-different-swing-for-driver-and-irons/?do=findComment&comment=1337948
"..and the swing itself is a bit different...For one, Key #2 can be done very differently.."

I think this is a very interesting (and important) topic.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 9/30/2017 at 10:25 PM, nevets88 said:

So how different is a driver swing off the deck? I guess similar to a 3W. Somewhere in between a driver and a long iron swing.

Off the deck? I couldn't tell you! Not at least since the advent of the 460cc Driver head. The only time I'll hit it off the deck now is if I need low, stinger fade for a trouble shot!

[Lihu]

6 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Off the deck? I couldn't tell you! Not at least since the advent of the 460cc Driver head. The only time I'll hit it off the deck now is if I need low, stinger fade for a trouble shot!

You'd need a pretty fluffy lie too.

[Hacker James]

On 10/11/2017 at 8:02 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

Off the deck? I couldn't tell you! Not at least since the advent of the 460cc Driver head. The only time I'll hit it off the deck now is if I need low, stinger fade for a trouble shot!

A short while back Taylor Made came out with their SLDR Mini Driver. The marketing pitch was that it was also a club that could be hit off the deck. I don't know if the appeal lasted or not, but aside from other bits about technology et all, to me it was just a driver with a smaller head. "Back in the day."......yah yah,I know....but frequently hit my Persimmon or Laminated Maple driver off the deck without too  much trouble. 

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

A short while back Taylor Made came out with their SLDR Mini Driver. The marketing pitch was that it was also a club that could be hit off the deck. I don't know if the appeal lasted or not, but aside from other bits about technology et all, to me it was just a driver with a smaller head. "Back in the day."......yah yah,I know....but frequently hit my Persimmon or Laminated Maple driver off the deck without too  much trouble. 

The big advantage of a bigger head is to make for a larger forgiveness zone, the region where where struck does not affect the direction no speed that much. This allows people to make that upward sweeping motion with their drivers without giving that much thought to hitting a tiny region of the club that only a few golfers can hit consistently.

Once you use a mini-driver, it could possibly take away that advantage. I wonder if they can design smaller head with a bigger forgiveness zone? If so, it could be very popular. My Callaway XR16 3W is pretty forgiving and I get plenty of distance with it. If I need to hit lower, my hybrid is the best choice anyway. The head on that is smaller than many of my playing partners irons.

Driver is a great club to tee up high and hit high. That's why we carry 14 clubs in our bag. 3W for off the deck and 11 other ones for trouble spots. 12 including the putter.

[Hacker James]

27 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The big advantage of a bigger head is to make for a larger forgiveness zone, the region where where struck does not affect the direction no speed that much. This allows people to make that upward sweeping motion with their drivers without giving that much thought to hitting a tiny region of the club that only a few golfers can hit consistently.

Once you use a mini-driver, it could possibly take away that advantage. I wonder if they can design smaller head with a bigger forgiveness zone? If so, it could be very popular. My Callaway XR16 3W is pretty forgiving and I get plenty of distance with it. If I need to hit lower, my hybrid is the best choice anyway. The head on that is smaller than many of my playing partners irons.

Driver is a great club to tee up high and hit high. That's why we carry 14 clubs in our bag. 3W for off the deck and 11 other ones for trouble spots. 12 including the putter.

we are starting to drift off topic just a little, but in regards to the SLDR Mini, although the name would indicate it has a "slider: it does not. TM is always coming out with some particular aspect or gimick to satisfy the insatiable needs of the consumer, often times to re-package an older product. They did use technology aspects of M.O.I, C.O.R, weight distribution. Even their commercials talking about "lofting up", the Mini came in lofts up to I believe 14 degrees. What is that - a 2 wood? One of the best TM Clubs I have ever owned was their R-7 Limited. with three interchangeable weights. What I liked best was the head shape and smaller mass. I am thinking 430cc?

At the end of the day it is still  "New, Improved, Tide".

[OB1]

I will say most of the best iron players weren’t equally good drivers and vice versa, at least the good short iron players.  

My opinion is that with short irons a takeaway with an early set seems to work pretty good and I see players that are really good at that like a Jose Maria ollazabal.  

But most of the best Long iron and driver players have more of a one piece takeaway like a Greg Norman or Jack Nicklaus but I don’t think it makes for as sharp of a short iron player?,