Pitch mark ruling

[Nutsmacker]

Hello,

So, I was playing in a club championship today and a situation came up in regards to a pitch mark.  I had hit a shot on to the green and it came backwards about 2 inches onto the edge of the fringe.  The pitch mark from my ball was directly in my line and on the green right in front of my ball.  I was not sure if I was allowed to repair the pitch mark or not.  I asked the other players, and 2 of them said it was okay and the other said no.  Since one person said it was against the rules; I played the putt through the pitch mark without repairing as I didn't want to have a rules issue.  

Could I have repaired the pitch mark?  It did end up sort of costing me as I ended up 3 putting from there and taking a bogey since I creamed the ball through the pitch mark...  

Edited September 30, 2017 by Nutsmacker

[saevel25]

You can fix the mark. Check out USGA 16-1(c)

Quote

Repair of Hole Plugs, Ball Marks and Other Damage 

The player may repair an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball, whether or not the player's ball lies on the putting green. If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of the repair, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act of repairing an old hole plug or damage to the putting green caused by the impact of a ball. Otherwise, Rule 18 applies. 

Any other damage to the putting green must not be repaired if it might assist the player in his subsequent play of the hole.

 

[Nutsmacker]

3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

You can fix the mark. Check out USGA 16-1(c)

 

Wish I had knew this today!  The guy was referencing some situation he witnessed in a PGA event.  I had a feeling it would have been all right, but I didn't want to get into having to look it up, etc.  

[RandallT]

I'll add another question:

Could @Nutsmacker have played two balls? Per this rule:

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-03,3-3

Quote

3-3. Doubt as to Procedure

a. Procedure for Competitor

In stroke play only, if a competitor is doubtful of his rights or the correct procedure during the play of a hole, he may, without penalty, complete the hole with two balls. To proceed under this Rule, he must decide to play two balls after the doubtful situation has arisen and before taking further action (e.g., making a stroke at the original ball).

The competitor should announce to his marker or a fellow-competitor:

• that he intends to play two balls; and

• which ball he wishes to count if the Rules permit the procedure used for that ball.

Before returning his score card, the competitor must report the facts of the situation to the Committee. If he fails to do so, he is disqualified.

If the competitor has taken further action before deciding to play two balls, he has not proceeded under Rule 3-3 and the score with the original ball counts. The competitor incurs no penalty for playing the second ball.

1

I would think in this situation, that would possibly be problematic for two reasons:

1. For the second shot, you would get a read on the putt from the first shot.
2. If you wanted to play the non-ball mark ball first, there would be no way to do that. You'd have to play first with the ball mark. Then fix it. Then play the second.

Bottom line: it feels wrong to play two shots in this circumstance, but I can't figure out what would prevent it in the rules.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, RandallT said:

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-03,3-3

You get to play two balls just about any time, so long as you meet the criteria (announce before you take an action with the original ball, etc.).

That would be a stupid one to play two balls under though. You can always repair ball marks on the putting green.

If it was off the green, no, you can't until it's no longer affecting your line of play, stance, area of swing, etc.

[David in FL]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

You get to play two balls just about any time, so long as you meet the criteria (announce before you take an action with the original ball, etc.).

That would be a stupid one to play two balls under though. You can always repair ball marks on the putting green.

If it was off the green, no, you can't until it's no longer affecting your line of play, stance, area of swing, etc.

I hadn't previously considered it, but at what point is the pitch mark "on the green"?

A ball is deemed to be on the green if any part of it touches the green.  Is it correct to infer that the same standard would apply to the pitch mark?

[Buckeyebowman]

Aw jeez! Some of these questions strike me as lame! Just how much in fear of Big Brother are you! If it's on a closely mown surface you can repair the pitch mark! If there's a pitch mark on your line, on the green, even if you are off the green, you're allowed to fix it! It's in your line!

Makes me wonder why so many people are weeniefied regarding the rules of golf!

[David in FL]

6 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Aw jeez! Some of these questions strike me as lame! Just how much in fear of Big Brother are you! If it's on a closely mown surface you can repair the pitch mark! If there's a pitch mark on your line, on the green, even if you are off the green, you're allowed to fix it! It's in your line!

Makes me wonder why so many people are weeniefied regarding the rules of golf!

This is the Rules of Golf" sub-forum.  It has nothing to do with "Big Brother", but rather discussing and clarifying The Rules as they exist.  If you prefer not to play by certain rules, that's fine, but that preference doesn't change the actual rules.

...and no, you may not simply repair any pitch mark on any closely mown area.

Rule 13-2 applies.

[Nutsmacker]

2 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Aw jeez! Some of these questions strike me as lame! Just how much in fear of Big Brother are you! If it's on a closely mown surface you can repair the pitch mark! If there's a pitch mark on your line, on the green, even if you are off the green, you're allowed to fix it! It's in your line!

Makes me wonder why so many people are weeniefied regarding the rules of golf!

It was a tournament.  We were playing by the rules of golf.  I wanted to know about a situation that arose when I played so I know in the future what the rule is.  Also, it is in a rules forum.  If you are not interested in reading rules questions then you should ignore the forum.

[Whiner]

On 9/30/2017 at 5:50 PM, Nutsmacker said:

Hello,

So, I was playing in a club championship today and a situation came up in regards to a pitch mark.  I had hit a shot on to the green and it came backwards about 2 inches onto the edge of the fringe.  The pitch mark from my ball was directly in my line and on the green right in front of my ball.  I was not sure if I was allowed to repair the pitch mark or not.  I asked the other players, and 2 of them said it was okay and the other said no.  Since one person said it was against the rules; I played the putt through the pitch mark without repairing as I didn't want to have a rules issue.  

Could I have repaired the pitch mark?  It did end up sort of costing me as I ended up 3 putting from there and taking a bogey since I creamed the ball through the pitch mark...  

Probably because of the differences regarding which can be repaired, the ROG refer those on the putting green as "ball marks" while those off the green a "pitch-marks".  Hyphen only in the pitch-mark.  

[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, Whiner said:

Probably because of the differences regarding which can be repaired, the ROG refer those on the putting green as "ball marks" while those off the green a "pitch-marks".  Hyphen only in the pitch-mark.  

  As for the specific language, neither term appears in the Definitions.  The meaning of the term "ball mark" or hole plug, what is allowed to be repaired, is defined in Rule 16.  The thing is, the rules of golf allow repair of certain things only in Rule 16, which covers the putting green.  The only time that you can repair a pitch mark "through the green" is when the pitch mark was created after your ball came to rest (see Dec. 13-2/8)  Otherwise, you can't improve your situation by repairing pre-existing pitch marks.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 10/1/2017 at 11:28 PM, Nutsmacker said:

It was a tournament.  We were playing by the rules of golf.  I wanted to know about a situation that arose when I played so I know in the future what the rule is.  Also, it is in a rules forum.  If you are not interested in reading rules questions then you should ignore the forum.

 

On 10/3/2017 at 6:08 PM, DaveP043 said:

  As for the specific language, neither term appears in the Definitions.  The meaning of the term "ball mark" or hole plug, what is allowed to be repaired, is defined in Rule 16.  The thing is, the rules of golf allow repair of certain things only in Rule 16, which covers the putting green.  The only time that you can repair a pitch mark "through the green" is when the pitch mark was created after your ball came to rest (see Dec. 13-2/8)  Otherwise, you can't improve your situation by repairing pre-existing pitch marks.

Which is the specific incidence I was referring to. A ball mark on the green in the line of your putt! Is it any wonder that the ruling bodies of golf are trying to simplify the rules? Nutsmacker says volumes about that. He says they were playing by "the Rules of Golf" when in fact they weren't! They were playing by what they THOUGHT the rules of golf were!

[iacas]

45 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Which is the specific incidence I was referring to. A ball mark on the green in the line of your putt! Is it any wonder that the ruling bodies of golf are trying to simplify the rules?

Huh?

The Rules here are simple. You can repair a ball mark on the putting green at any point in time. That's pretty simple.

[Buckeyebowman]

True! But it seems that some others were confused. Perhaps it's how the rule is worded, I don't know. Also, the fact that you can repair a ball mark, but can't tamp down a spike mark. But then, maybe that has been changed. 

Plus, I've noticed some folks are so intent on going by the book, but they don't really know the book by heart (the same as me) that they unnecessarily handicap themselves. The rules can help as well as hurt you.

But once I had a putt bounce a foot in the air and die a mile short and right because of a ball mark, I resolved to walk the line of my putt and look for them and fix them. It was only later that I found that this was allowed!

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

True! But it seems that some others were confused. Perhaps it's how the rule is worded, I don't know.

Yeah, I dunno… The rule is pretty simple to understand.

18 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Also, the fact that you can repair a ball mark, but can't tamp down a spike mark. But then, maybe that has been changed.

Not yet. Maybe (likely) in 2019.