9 Hole Handicap Would be Lower than 18-Hole Handicap

[woodzie264]

Not sure where this belongs, but after a quick topic search, this is where I'll start. @iacas, please take the liberty to move it at your discretion.

I know the answer will be "no," but I feel compelled to ask the question: is there any situation wherein one might keep or use a 9-hole HCP separately from the standard formula?

The impetus for my question has to do with the Newport Cup. I don't play any competitive golf, so my HCP serves no purpose other than giving me an objective way to measure progress/improvement. BUT, while I have a few good 18 hole rounds, I KNOW my HCP is dropping only because I play mostly 9-hole rounds wherein I play well (for me). But in the later holes of a full 18, my mental toughness, swing fatigue, whatever else you want to add, starts to fail...my game lacks endurance. 

For fun, at some point this week, I'll figure out my 9-hole HCP vs my 18-hole, then compare to my standard formula number. I'm sure there will be big differences. 

The reason I brought up the Newport Cup is because it's a goal of mine to play one day, but I honestly don't think my HCP accurately reflects my 18-hole ability... it overstates my competence and I wouldn't want to mistepresent myself when applying in the future.

Thoughts??

Edited October 1, 2017 by woodzie264

[iacas]

Uhh… I think that for other people, the opposite is true: they get into a bit of a flow after a rough start. They figure out the green speeds for the day, figure out how they're hitting the ball that day, etc.

What's the difference between your 9- and 18-hole (with 9s combined) handicap index?

[David in FL]

If you play predominately 9-hole "rounds", then I wouldn't expect to see much difference at all, since all the formula is doing is to combine separate 9-hole scores into a single 18-hole result.

If you're worried that your index is artificially off, either way, as a consequence of playing solely 9-hole rounds, it seems an easy fix.  Play a full 18!  

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, David in FL said:

If you play predominately 9-hole "rounds", then I wouldn't expect to see much difference at all, since all the formula is doing is to combine separate 9-hole scores into a single 18-hole result.

He's saying, I think, that when he plays just nine-hole rounds he scores better. So… 41, 40, 39, 41, 38, 40 instead of nines of 41-44, 40-45, 39-42, 41-48, 38-44, 40-46 (when he plays 18 holes) or whatever.

[Lihu]

On 10/1/2017 at 6:01 AM, woodzie264 said:

Not sure where this belongs, but after a quick topic search, this is where I'll start. @iacas, please take the liberty to move it at your discretion.

I know the answer will be "no," but I feel compelled to ask the question: is there any situation wherein one might keep or use a 9-hole HCP separately from the standard formula?

The impetus for my question has to do with the Newport Cup. I don't play any competitive golf, so my HCP serves no purpose other than giving me an objective way to measure progress/improvement. BUT, while I have a few good 18 hole rounds, I KNOW my HCP is dropping only because I play mostly 9-hole rounds wherein I play well (for me). But in the later holes of a full 18, my mental toughness, swing fatigue, whatever else you want to add, starts to fail...my game lacks endurance. 

For fun, at some point this week, I'll figure out my 9-hole HCP vs my 18-hole, then compare to my standard formula number. I'm sure there will be big differences. 

The reason I brought up the Newport Cup is because it's a goal of mine to play one day, but I honestly don't think my HCP accurately reflects my 18-hole ability... it overstates my competence and I wouldn't want to mistepresent myself when applying in the future.

Thoughts??

I kind of lead towards Erik's statement in that the first 5 or 6 holes are kind of "warmup" holes for me and most of the people I play with. The few golfers I know that play horribly on the back 9 look like they "checked out" rather than getting fatigued. I think they get bored or whatever? No matter what, though, 4 to 5 hours is a long time to be doing any activity.

So, from that perspective, you're playing the hardest 9 holes as far as I'm concerned, especially if you're playing early in the morning. If you can alternate between playing the front and the back of all the courses you play, that gives you some variation so you're not always playing the same holes which could get really boring anyway.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Uhh… I think that for other people, the opposite is true: they get into a bit of a flow after a rough start. They figure out the green speeds for the day, figure out how they're hitting the ball that day, etc.

This is typically true for my game. It's rare that I'll score better on the front 9 than the back.

[NJpatbee]

If I had the chance to properly warm up and hit some balls I am usually better on the front 9.  If I did not warm up the first 2 or 3 holes are usually higher than normal as I try to get my game going.  If I play 18, which is 99% of the time, The wheels tend to get shaky on the back 9.  Not sure why - loss of focus, fatigue, trying to kill the ball after a good front 9, or pressing myself for a low score.  It doesn't last for more than 2-3 holes but my score can start to blow up.  I suspect that my handicap would be a bit lower if I played only 9 holes at a time and was warmed up.  But I'll take the 18 and still enjoy every hole - so what if I have a 17.9 or 17.1 handicap?

[klineka]

This might be purely mental, maybe not, but I have found that being well hydrated with gatorade/powerade throughout the round helps me avoid getting tired and sloppy on holes 15-18. 

I started taking two 32 oz. bottles of gatorade/powerade with me, drinking 1 bottle on the front 9 and the other throughout the back 9, and I've noticed myself not tiring out as much. 

Like I said, might be purely mental, or I might actually be more hydrated/energized from the sugar and carbs in the drinks, but either way its worked so far.

Edited October 3, 2017 by klineka

[Kalnoky]

25 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The few golfers I know that play horribly on the back 9 look like they "checked out" rather than getting fatigued. I think they get bored or whatever? No matter what, though, 4 to 5 hours is a long time to be doing any activity.

Yes. Very often unfocused on the Back 9. I mostly rotate the same 3 golf courses all summer, so course knowledge is not a problem for me.. Last 3 times at the turn I had a real good chance to shoot 85 or better. What happens is I (or we) will eventually run into the log jam of slow play that teed off earlier. This often happens because the bigger groups will stop at the clubhouse for sandwiches and beer. Once my rhythm is thrown off I will have a few rough holes. I start checking my phone and getting distracted.

For this reason I now avoid weekends. Fortunately I have found  couple of members I can play with on the weekdays after work. All this to say I absolutely think it's possible to play worse on the back 9 than the front. 

 

[woodzie264]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

He's saying, I think, that when he plays just nine-hole rounds he scores better. So… 41, 40, 39, 41, 38, 40 instead of nines of 41-44, 40-45, 39-42, 41-48, 38-44, 40-46 (when he plays 18 holes) or whatever.

correct - and I will figure out those calculations at some point this week

[No Mulligans]

I have my best HI's when I play 18 holes, my combined 9 hole rounds seldom will be both good days.  If you combine consecutive 9's as you have to for handicap purposes then I think that would be the case for most with higher handicaps.

The reason is I'm not very consistent which is probably true for the vast majority of high handicappers.  My best rounds come from a day when I'm particularly "on".  That better golf is much more likely to carry on to the same round back nine than it is to my some other day (maybe weeks apart) when I play just nine hole rounds that get combined.

[dennyjones]

Didn't we just have a discussion about this where @bkuehn1952 asked the question about scoring 18 vs. 9 holes?  9 hole conundrum 

I've had the situation where I've warmed up after a few holes and played better.   This is the norm for me.  I've also played where I fell apart after 13 and never recovered.   It's harder for me to play 18 consistently well.   If I based my handicap from just 9 holes it would be lower.

Then again....there are some days...

[Jack Watson]

I agree with the comment @iacas made.  For myself,  if I start well on the front I tend to shoot a good 18 for me.  Starting slow,  I will almost always find it before the end but the score depends on how much damage was done before finding it.

Obviously every round differs a little bit,  but that's my tendency.

[woodzie264]

18 hours ago, iacas said:

What's the difference between your 9- and 18-hole (with 9s combined) handicap index?

Using differentials from this past year:

9 Hole: Using best 4 differentials (n=12), my average was 3.725. I multiplied x 2 to give me the equivalent 18hole differential of 7.25. Then multiplied by the  *.96 = 6.96 

18 hole: Using best 3 differentials (n=10), my average was 11.83. Then multiplied by the  *.96 = 10.85

Standard/Official HCP = 8.7

*I did not go back to get 20 differentials for each, but rather went back to the point where I started playing after reading LSW and my scores started to fall. While I realize this is an artificial endpoint, I feel the scores/rounds prior to this aren't relevant.  I can assure you the pattern I'm establishing is not changed by going further back.

Edited October 4, 2017 by woodzie264

[woodzie264]

Here the actual differentials in case you would work the numbers differently:

9 holes:

5.4, 3.3, 5.6, 7.3, 5.3, 5.5, 9.1, 8.5, 4.3, 3.6, 3.7, 4.5

 

Best 4/12

3.725 x 2 = 7.45

 

 

18 holes

16.2, 10.3, 11.5, 15.9, 15.7, 13.7, 16.5, 17.4, 22.4, 20.9

 

Best 3/10

11.83

[iacas]

Uh, so why do you stink so much (I keeeeed!) at 18 holes?

Tired? Lose focus? What?

[woodzie264]

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

Uh, so why do you stink so much (I keeeeed!) at 18 holes?

Tired? Lose focus? What?

Dude, I have no idea. I don't feel physically tired.  I suppose I just lose focus. BUT, as of a week or so ago, when I made the initial post, I will be intentional about maintaining focus. I think one of your recommendations from LSW to mentally play 3 holes at a time may help. Other ideas?

Edited October 4, 2017 by woodzie264

[iacas]

Just now, woodzie264 said:

Dude, I have no idea. I suppose I just lose focus. BUT, as of a week or so ago, when I made the initial post, I will be intentional about maintaining focus. I think one of your recommendations from LSW to mentally play 3 holes at a time may help. Other ideas?

I tell my college kids that. Even have them circle the 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th holes to remind themselves to re-focus.

If you get literally tired or something, then… improve your fitness? I don't know. Until you know the problem, the solution could be anything.