Real rule or a local one?

[Papa Steve 55]

The situation is this. A straight par four with heavy grass and brush along the entire left side. I saw a yellow stake at the beginning of this condition but its all on a steep uphill slope so no water. A member said if you hit it in this area and find the ball, no issue, just play it. However if you don't find it, take a drop at point of entry, one shot, as if its a hazard. So they play it as a hazard if you lose your ball, but if you find it, none of the normal hazard rules apply. You can ground your club, move debris etc.

It does help pace of play, but is it legit?

Edited October 7, 2017 by Papa Steve 55

[iacas]

No.

Yellow is odd too if it’s lateral. You can not drop within two club lengths on yellow water hazards either.

[Club Rat]

16 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

none of the normal hazard rules apply

Many Desert courses use this situation to speed up play and for safety reasons.

16 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

I saw a yellow stake

Could be the club did not want to purchase additional markers and had an abundant of yellow stakes on hand

16 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

par four with heavy grass and brush along the entire left side.

Native areas are often a complaint by members. Many do not like these areas due to losing their ball and also they are penalized stroke and distance.
To appease the whiners, courses will designate these areas as lateral hazards.

16 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

but is it legit?

Ask the pro staff if they use it as a local rule, its often printed on the back of the scorecards.

[Rulesman]

1 hour ago, Club Rat said:

Ask the pro staff if they use it as a local rule, its often printed on the back of the scorecards.

It's still not legit wherever it's printed or posted

[DaveP043]

Like some of the others, I've seen native areas defined as lateral hazards (red stakes and/or paint), but never using yellow stakes.  Under the current definitions of "hazard," this isn't legitimate.  As you've described it, its an even more unusual situation, where you get to drop as if it's a lateral hazard if you don't find the ball, but you're required to play it if you do find it.  Or maybe I misunderstood, maybe you can still take the lateral hazard relief if you find it but don't want to play it.  In any case, its not an acceptable local rule under the current rules.  However, as I understand the proposed changes, this COULD be classified as a "penalty area" if that rule does indeed change in 2019

[Papa Steve 55]

You didn't misunderstand. If you find your ball, 50/50 in this area, you either play or declare it unplayable as you see fit. Its a weird decision they came to for this hole. I think this is what provisionals  are designed  to help.

[Rulesman]

1 hour ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

 I think this is what provisionals  are designed  to help.

Exactly.

[Lihu]

On 10/7/2017 at 12:41 PM, Papa Steve 55 said:

The situation is this. A straight par four with heavy grass and brush along the entire left side. I saw a yellow stake at the beginning of this condition but its all on a steep uphill slope so no water. A member said if you hit it in this area and find the ball, no issue, just play it. However if you don't find it, take a drop at point of entry, one shot, as if its a hazard. So they play it as a hazard if you lose your ball, but if you find it, none of the normal hazard rules apply. You can ground your club, move debris etc.

It does help pace of play, but is it legit?

I'm not so sure about this one. A lost ball is only lost after the search, whereupon you have a choice to re-hit it? Not sure, but I recall having to re-hit a ball from the original position when I was in this situation?

 

3 hours ago, Rulesman said:

Exactly.

Would a provisional be considered out of play when you declare the ball lost after hitting the provisional? I thought a lost ball is considered lost only after a search, then technically you'd have to hit it after it's declared lost?

I remember taking a provisional for a potentially OB ball, but had to re-take the shot (stroke and distance) when the ball was declared lost. If it was found and is OB, then I can play the provisional, at least that's how I understand it?

I'm not absolutely clear on this, but have been using the above for some time now.

 

Quote

Water Hazards Marked with Yellow Stakes – The first thing to do after you’ve hit your ball into the water (assuming you aren’t going to try and play it), is to take a one-shot penalty. After you’ve done that, you have three options:

Option 1: Play your next shot by dropping a ball nearest to the point where your last stroke was played (this is where Tiger got confused. Make sure you drop AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to the location that your previous shot was played). If you’re on the tee box, you have the option to re-tee.

Option 2: Identify the spot where your ball last crossed the water hazard and drop as far back as you want in between that spot and the pin. (Remember it’s not where your shot ended up in the hazard, it’s where it last crossed).

Option 3: Go to the designated drop zone. If the golf course hasn’t set aside an area for this, you must go with Option 1 or Option 2.

To the OP, yellow is only playable by the above rules.

Edited October 8, 2017 by Lihu

[sjduffers]

A provisional is good for a ball that is found OB (or not found but virtually certain to be OB) and for one that is indeed lost, as in "not found". If you do find the ball in bounds, it is in play and you can't use the provisional. However, you still don't have to hit it. You can't declare a ball lost, but you can declare it unplayable and one of the options of the unplayable rule is to go back to where you hit the previous shot under stroke and distance... and you can't use the (no longer applicable) provisional. 

At least, that's how I understand it.

[Buckeyebowman]

I'd like to remind some folks out there that every little podunk course out there doesn't do everything strictly by the book! Why? Because they can't afford to!

[David in FL]

6 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I'd like to remind some folks out there that every little podunk course out there doesn't do everything strictly by the book! Why? Because they can't afford to!

What does that even mean?  It doesn't cost any more money to type "USGA rules govern all play" on the back of the scorecard than to not...

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, David in FL said:

What does that even mean?  It doesn't cost any more money to type "USGA rules govern all play" on the back of the scorecard than to not...

Exactly.

[Lihu]

7 hours ago, sjduffers said:

A provisional is good for a ball that is found OB (or not found but virtually certain to be OB) and for one that is indeed lost, as in "not found". If you do find the ball in bounds, it is in play and you can't use the provisional. However, you still don't have to hit it. You can't declare a ball lost, but you can declare it unplayable and one of the options of the unplayable rule is to go back to where you hit the previous shot under stroke and distance... and you can't use the (no longer applicable) provisional. 

At least, that's how I understand it.

That was the case I was thinking about. Thanks.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 10/8/2017 at 6:52 PM, David in FL said:

What does that even mean?  It doesn't cost any more money to type "USGA rules govern all play" on the back of the scorecard than to not...

I suppose you're right. And that would be yet another rule ignored! At least by most. But it's those "go by the book" guys who cause the problems! I'm not talking about the local country club, I'm talking about the local 9 holer, who's golfers go out in in tank tops or no shirts at all. You'd be liable to get yourself brained going by the book! Get it moving, boy!

More money in the till means survival!

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Buckeyebowman

[Fourputt]

12 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I suppose you're right. And that would be yet another rule ignored! At least by most. But it's those "go by the book" guys who cause the problems! I'm not talking about the local country club, I'm talking about the local 9 holer, who's golfers go out in in tank tops or no shirts at all. You'd be liable to get yourself brained going by the book! Get it moving, boy!

More money in the till means survival!

 

Playing "by the book" doesn't mean playing slowly.  I play by the book and in 40 years I've never been accused of slow play.  I'm usually the one who's waiting on the other guys in my group.  If you know the procedures that should be followed when on the course, then it doesn't really take any longer to follow those procedures than it does to ignore them.  The only time I would modify that is in the case of an unexpected lost ball on a busy course when returning to the previous spot might ruffle some feathers.  If I hit to spot where I think I might have a problem finding the ball, I always play the provisional ball.

Just because a course marks an area as a hazard, that doesn't make it a hazard if it doesn't fit the definition.  When playing with friends, I will play by their rules for the round only if necessary.  If that results in a hole being played incorrectly, then I will make the handicap adjustment specified in the USGA manual.  If there is no difference in time, then I will follow the rules regardless.

[iacas]

13 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I suppose you're right. And that would be yet another rule ignored! At least by most. But it's those "go by the book" guys who cause the problems! I'm not talking about the local country club, I'm talking about the local 9 holer, who's golfers go out in in tank tops or no shirts at all. You'd be liable to get yourself brained going by the book! Get it moving, boy!

More money in the till means survival!

What are you even talking about?

[NM Golf]

On 10/8/2017 at 4:44 PM, Buckeyebowman said:

I'd like to remind some folks out there that every little podunk course out there doesn't do everything strictly by the book! Why? Because they can't afford to!

So what you are saying is there are golf courses out there that can't afford to know the rules? I am sorry but that might be the most ridiculous statement I've ever seen on here and I have seen some doozies over the years.

13 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I suppose you're right. And that would be yet another rule ignored! At least by most. But it's those "go by the book" guys who cause the problems! I'm not talking about the local country club, I'm talking about the local 9 holer, who's golfers go out in in tank tops or no shirts at all. You'd be liable to get yourself brained going by the book! Get it moving, boy!

More money in the till means survival!

 

HUH? Pretty sure you've let more than one thought wander together into this paragraph. 

[Buckeyebowman]

Can you people not read, and understand the written word?! I explained myself, and the actions of certain courses, perfectly. Get as many players around per day as you can. Shot OB? Stroke only, no distance penalty. Holds up play. Get 'em through the course and in the bar for a couple of beers. More money!

There are too many courses hanging by a thread to go by the book! Thus, local rules! But then, it may be that you guys have more money than you know what to do with,and thus look down on the proletariat. If so, you are only reinforcing the idea that golf is an "elitist" game!