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Berty42

Game Improvement irons or Players Irons

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" Play the most forgiving iron u can stand to look at"...something I read a long time ago.  Callaway Apex and Steelhead, Ping G and G400 are examples of irons I have no problem looking down at.  

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On 10/20/2017 at 4:37 AM, Berty42 said:

Hey guys,

Ive been thinking about getting some new irons. I’m an 8 handicap. Right now I am playing Taylormade RSI TP irons. Should I stay with players irons or go back to game improvement irons? I like the feed back of players irons. But could I also benefit from game improvement irons? Just asking to see what people have to say. 

Berty, try out several clubs and buy the ones you feel the best about.  It’s that simple.  Let us know what you wind up picking up!

2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

I'm using this as my justification for why I "need" new irons.  What I pine after currently are ...

MP18_MB.jpg

:-P

I know these type of clubs will provide plenty of feedback - more than I really need - but I'm also wondering if I'll hit them better specifically because I know I have to.  Not sure if that makes a lot of sense, but I wonder if my focus will be greater on making solid contact since I will know that anything less will provide me great punishment and humiliation. :)

With my i20s, on the other hand, I have literally hit balls that leave a mark on the face of my 7 iron that is partially OFF the grooves and still ended up with a shot that would be in the vicinity of the green.

Anyways, it's still a bit of a pipe dream, but if I can clean out some space in the garage and acquire a few bucks by selling some old clubs, I'll seriously look into this. :beer:

Do it!  Do it!   If my MP-25s weren’t only two seasons old, I’d be all over the MP-18s.

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2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

I'm also wondering if I'll hit them better specifically because I know I have to.  Not sure if that makes a lot of sense, but I wonder if my focus will be greater on making solid contact since I will know that anything less will provide me great punishment and humiliation. :)

Actually. I think that may be a valid thought. I play SGI irons, JPX-800 HD. I also have a set of forged MX-200's. They are GI, but more like a cavity-back better player's club. When practicing with those clubs, I do believe my concentration and focus are a bit deeper because I know what can happen on a mishit. That also carries over then to practice with the more forgiving clubs. So, yeah, I agree @Golfingdad . Best, -Marv 

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I'm a mid handicapper. I played Titleist AP2 for about three years. Some shots I hit well, some not so well. I just purchased a set of the new AP3 and I couldn't be happier. They look just as slim as the AP2, more forgiving and 5 yards more distance per club on average. I'm glad I switched. By the way, AP1 were just too chunky and too much offset for me. So the AP3 were perfect.

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23 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

I'm using this as my justification for why I "need" new irons.  What I pine after currently are ...

MP18_MB.jpg

:-P

I know these type of clubs will provide plenty of feedback - more than I really need - but I'm also wondering if I'll hit them better specifically because I know I have to.  Not sure if that makes a lot of sense, but I wonder if my focus will be greater on making solid contact since I will know that anything less will provide me great punishment and humiliation. :)

With my i20s, on the other hand, I have literally hit balls that leave a mark on the face of my 7 iron that is partially OFF the grooves and still ended up with a shot that would be in the vicinity of the green.

Anyways, it's still a bit of a pipe dream, but if I can clean out some space in the garage and acquire a few bucks by selling some old clubs, I'll seriously look into this. :beer:

I like your thinking, but to me the I20 give me what I want right now. I just need something that gives me okay results when I only really am focusing on my swings and getting that right first and foremost. It’s kind of good that a tie strike under the tungsten weight or a near hosel rocket gives me results that put me in bogey position at worst.

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I've said this before and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree, but my personal feeling is GI clubs don't really make you a better golfer, they mask your bad habits and technique. If you're already that good, why not use better clubs. I got GI clubs after breaking my back and when I hit blades I was all over the place. The GI clubs his my shoddy strike points. When I went back to PW or blades, I was forced to fix my shit habits.

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2 hours ago, satchmodog said:

why not use better clubs

"Better"?  Maybe you meant "player's clubs" or "conventional clubs"? -Marv

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I'll play GI clubs until distance dispersion becomes the primary impediment to my game - if/when that happens I'll try out player's clubs.

Anyways, I've realized that visually I don't find a slim top line as important as a short head - I prefer the head compact. That's also why I'm uncomfortable with the 460cc size of all new drivers.

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On 10/21/2017 at 1:38 PM, xrayvizhen said:

The Callaway Steelhead series are what I consider to be semi-Game Improvement irons, especially the "Pro" version which has less of an offset than the regular line. You get a decent level of forgiveness on off-center hits, a good amount of feel ...

I found the MPF on the two Steelheads: XR Pro = 916 / XR = 967

Both of these are UltraGame Improvement clubs, when using Maltby's six MPF categories.

On 10/21/2017 at 5:35 PM, MarvChamp said:

Check the Malyby Playability Factor. I think both the x-14 and x-14 Pro are pretty highly rated, classed as Ultra Game Improvement clubs. Ought to be pretty easy to hit, if you believe the MPF. -Marv

On MPFs for the earlier models, X14 = 982  / X14 Pro = 891. Again, both were UGI.

Marv, the inventor Ralph Maltby urges caution in using the MPF. He said it should act as a starting point for comparing, and notes that MPF does not consider shaft type.

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On 10/28/2017 at 4:34 PM, arturo28mx said:

I'm a mid handicapper. I played Titleist AP2 for about three years. Some shots I hit well, some not so well. I just purchased a set of the new AP3 and I couldn't be happier. They look just as slim as the AP2, more forgiving and 5 yards more distance per club on average. I'm glad I switched. By the way, AP1 were just too chunky and too much offset for me. So the AP3 were perfect.

consider me jealous.  beautiful clubs.

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10 hours ago, WUTiger said:

I found the MPF on the two Steelheads: XR Pro = 916 / XR = 967

Both of these are UltraGame Improvement clubs, when using Maltby's six MPF categories.

On MPFs for the earlier models, X14 = 982  / X14 Pro = 891. Again, both were UGI.

Marv, the inventor Ralph Maltby urges caution in using the MPF. He said it should act as a starting point for comparing, and notes that MPF does not consider shaft type.

Right! MPF just one of many factors for me. -Marv

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If you plan to progress and become a better player, then id stick with what you have. You might get some better scores from playing a GI iron because of the forgiveness. But if you progress as ballstriker, the GI club might become a hindrance at some point. Better players (myself included) tend to hook GI irons. I love the forgiveness of GI clubs and i play one myself. (my 4i is a Titleist AP1) but i fight a little bit of the lefts with that club unless i remember to make a slight adjustment with my hands at address. 

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I think this question gets asked a lot and I might have even asked when I started.

Some good info in this thread... does GI, SGI & WGI (super and wicked) actually mask your faults more and hinder getting better?

When you start, get some shovels and beat them into the ground to see if you really like this sport.  As you play more, if you have the drive to get better, upgrade to a better set to help you improve.  Once you have become a decent golfer and have a pretty good swing,play what you like and like what you play.

People tell me all the time I cant play my MP-67's but man, look at them.... so sweet!

I hit them pretty good... know when I flushed one and know when I hit one bad.

@Golfingdad  Those Mizzy's are sweet!  Go for it!

IMG_5125.JPG

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On 10/27/2017 at 5:08 PM, onthehunt526 said:

Just a side note, most OEMs now allow you to purchase partial sets or even individual clubs, and in most cases blended sets. Most importantly, go get fit. Hit some shots on a Launch Monitor, preferably outdoors and the fitter will see where your GI irons should start.

The Srixon line has mixed sets its ships to dealers: 

7i and above Z965 / 6i and below Z765; or, 7i and above Z765 / 6i and below Z565.

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Lessons.  

I have players irons and if I'm missing center of the face I don't go pull my Eye2 irons out of the closet ...because I'm still going to miss the center.  I get more focused on taking a lesson to fix it.  Grabbing a set of blades isn't going help me like a PGA professional will.

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I always recommend taking a look at your situation when trying to make this type of decision...

If you're an 8 handicapper that is able to play and practice a lot, your handicap is trending down and you are working to lower it even more, consider the player's irons.

If you're an 8 who used to be a 5, and don't have the time to play and practice like you used to because of work or family obligations, and it's not realistic to get your handicap back down, then something in the game improvement clubs makes sense.

As others have suggested, a split set of GI in the mid and longer irons with player's clubs in the short irons is worth thinking about.

Image result for mizuno combo irons sets

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I too have been wondering exactly what the OP posted. Ive been playing for 10 years- started out with a cheap no name brand set of cavity backs that I only kept for about a year or so, then moved to a set of Titleist 704CB which I believe would be considered a blend between blades and a cavity back. My game has had ups and downs over the years and when I'm swinging well those irons feel AMAZING, but if you're off center just a bit it's a substantial loss in distance/direction. 

I have never run across a game improvement iron that I liked as they have always looked too clunky (super wide, thick top line) to my eye. However recently I borrowed someone's Taylormade R9 8-iron and hit it at the range. It was a small sample size but they felt pretty forgiving and even though they were slightly larger I still found them to look VERY nice behind the ball. I know this is an older model iron but does anyone have experience with these irons and would they be a good step in the direction of forgiveness compared to the 704CB I currently play?

Edited by theDRC

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