Flying elbow

[Hacker James]

7 hours ago, Hacker James said:

@Mr. Desmond, ok, Obie One.....   but I would have chosen different references. Heck, I think we should invite that  Truck Driving, Tobacco Spitting, Eureka finding, what's his name back to enlighten us on his Nirvana.

@Mr. Desmond, methinks I spoke too soon.  What do you want to bet, he IS back?  (under different screen name however). As in gambling, there are "tells". However, I will now take my leave and NOT engage.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Hacker James

[Mr. Desmond]

10 hours ago, OB1 said:

This is pretty much what all teaching is based on.  The idea that changes in your alignments will make you a better player.  

If a player comes in with either too strong or two weak a grip or a flying right elbow or a flat swing or an upright swing, the average teacher wants too change it.  

I too believe there is certain things you can do to change your swing.  But I more importantly believe that a proper transition fixes a lot of little details. 

I think most people would agree that tiger, jack, Sam Snead, Ben hogan, lee Trevino, and nick faldo are some of the best ball strikers and best winners of all time.  

But Trevino had a really strong grip and hogan had a really weak one.  So any where in between will work. 

Hogan had a really tucked elbow and jack had a flying elbow.  So anywhere in between will work.  

Sam Snead had a pretty upright swing as did jack and tiger but hogan and Trevino both much flatter.  So anywhere inbetween will work.

All these players do have one thing in common and that is a similar lower bodie transition

 

It may be about matchups - if using one pattern, there is a complimentary pattern that matches with it - the problem is you need to find the pairing.

[Sandhills Golfer]

On 10/22/2017 at 9:46 AM, Marty2019 said:

Okay, I'll give it a shot.  What the heck. 

If you're a right-handed golfer, starting in your stance have your elbows close together, with the insides of the elbows facing up.  At the top of the back swing, your left wrist should be flat, and your right wrist should be cocked back.   That will help you tuck in your right elbow.  Then when you start down, keep your right elbow tucked in.  Don't flip the club with your right hand.  Keep your right wrist cocked back.  Try to have your elbows close together when you hit the ball. 

 

Marty, After one range session this seems promising. I almost do not need a downswing thought, when the backswing is in a good spot. It's not perfect as getting the elbows together adds tension and the swing is a bit rigid. But, I like it better than a flying elbow. Thanks, very much for chiming in! SG

Edited October 23, 2017 by Sandhills Golfe

[Buckeyebowman]

On 10/22/2017 at 5:28 PM, Hacker James said:

Yep, Jack Nicklaus once described in detail why he swung like he did and it made perfect sense at the time.  I do not remember his exact statement, but something to the effect that he swang from a straight line down from the top. Again, what he said, and what he did, may not be the same.  I have also read several proponents of the flying elbow.  I had pretty much the same flying elbow myself when I first started playing, and it served me well at the time, gradually, over time, I went to a more rotational, two plane swing.     
 

"go wide and deep"

 

When I was learning golf Nicklaus was on his way up. His was the prototypical "vertical" swing with the "reverse C" finish. He also played a fade which that swing can produce with regularity. Also, players of that era didn't have all the gizmos available to golfers today. Maybe an 8mm film camera! They found a swing that made the ball do what they wanted, and worked on it, and honed it till they owned it. They learned by feel.

Although I was a huge Nicklaus fan, I never tried to copy his swing! Well, I can't say that with absolute certainty. It was a long time ago, so maybe I did and found out that it didn't work for me. I used a flatter swing that would produce a nice baby draw.

On 10/22/2017 at 5:36 PM, Mr. Desmond said:

I am sensing some disturbance in the instructional force -

Some people like GGSwingTips and Dana Dahlquist seem to be using the ground force and delaying the weight transfer to the front - instead of hip slide, you get the trail leg knee going forward (outward) and then pushing off to load the front when the arms get parallel on the downswing - both feet using ground force for more speed, instead of using the arms. This method supposedly prevents one from stalling out, the hips are more level and the lead knee really opening up before the push to the front. The clubface squares naturally as arms are more passive ... it's new or old. Belief is that the old timers turned this way. 

And the flying elbow doesn't matter.

If I had that much stuff floating around in my brain, I couldn't hit the ball out of my shadow at high noon!

[Hacker James]

11 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

 

If I had that much stuff floating around in my brain, I couldn't hit the ball out of my shadow at high noon!

I think that @Mr. Desmond was only making the observation of a "Jedi Master". In that, there was a "disturbance" in The Force. As he had made that reference, then @OB1 made his post in this thread,  (fwiw, I was not even referring to him, but merely to the reference to Obie One Kinobe,  as a Jedi Master from the film Star Wars)_.

11 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

When I was learning golf Nicklaus was on his way up. His was the prototypical "vertical" swing with the "reverse C" finish. He also played a fade which that swing can produce with regularity. Also, players of that era didn't have all the gizmos available to golfers today. Maybe an 8mm film camera! They found a swing that made the ball do what they wanted, and worked on it, and honed it till they owned it. They learned by feel.

Although I was a huge Nicklaus fan, I never tried to copy his swing! Well, I can't say that with absolute certainty. It was a long time ago, so maybe I did and found out that it didn't work for me. I used a flatter swing that would produce a nice baby draw.

If I had that much stuff floating around in my brain, I couldn't hit the ball out of my shadow at high noon!

I started out that way also, but not because of Nicklaus, (I did not even know who he was), It was just the swing that felt natural to me as I really did not know any better. I will say, that it served me well for a time.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Hacker James

[Mr. Desmond]

13 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

 

If I had that much stuff floating around in my brain, I couldn't hit the ball out of my shadow at high noon!

I hear that a lot from older guys who have had the same swing for decades, and I'm an older guy. Point I was making is that teaching evolves, pointing out some new "old thoughts" about the swing that are raising eyebrows.

But if you detail the movements in your swing, you'd be surprised at the detail. You just don't think about it any longer. When one is learning a new pattern, you crawl, walk, run ... the first 2 stages take a while.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[Buckeyebowman]

Oh, I agree with that Des! It took me a lonnnnnng time! 5-6 days a week on the range! Trying this, trying that, until I figured out something that would work.

[Sandhills Golfer]

On 10/22/2017 at 11:50 PM, OB1 said:

This is pretty much what all teaching is based on.  The idea that changes in your alignments will make you a better player.  

If a player comes in with either too strong or two weak a grip or a flying right elbow or a flat swing or an upright swing, the average teacher wants too change it.  

I too believe there is certain things you can do to change your swing.  But I more importantly believe that a proper transition fixes a lot of little details. 

I think most people would agree that tiger, jack, Sam Snead, Ben hogan, lee Trevino, and nick faldo are some of the best ball strikers and best winners of all time.  

But Trevino had a really strong grip and hogan had a really weak one.  So any where in between will work. 

Hogan had a really tucked elbow and jack had a flying elbow.  So anywhere in between will work.  

Sam Snead had a pretty upright swing as did jack and tiger but hogan and Trevino both much flatter.  So anywhere inbetween will work.

All these players do have one thing in common and that is a similar lower bodie transition

 

Good stuff, certainly add Furyk to the list. I have seen the most improvement in my game with a swing from the ground up method, on the down swing. I guess we're always trying to improve further and chasing the pretty positions are usually a place most of us like to start with. Cheers, SG

[Marty2019]

The golf swing is such an interesting thing.  It's not just how to swing the club, but also, how to learn how to swing a club.  For me, sometimes I ask, how do I stop doing so and so, and the answer is, just don't do it, and other times, the answer is very very far away.  Sometimes, fixing some other seemingly  unrelated thing magically solves the original problem.  And then you see that it wasn't completely unrelated.  That's what makes golf so interesting for me. 

 

Edited October 27, 2017 by Marty2019

[OB1]

Good post I agree

it sounds cheesy but my new motto is learn to use the force.  You need basic fundamentals especially if your a new golfer but past that for me the big improvement comes from improving the quality of your movement or how you use the swinging force of the club.  

We all have experienced it, you ever stand in your front yard swinging the club back and forth repeatedly without stopping and experienced a feeling of a good coil and a good athletic change of direction while you where still coiling?

that is what I call using the force once you can imbrace that feel on even a chip shot your game will improve exponentially. 

May the swinging force be with you

Edited October 27, 2017 by OB1