High School Player Wins Tournament, Denied Trophy Because She Is a Girl

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, DeadMan said:

I just want to pop in and say that everybody knows who wins this tournament. Who cares about the trophy? We need to give kids more credit than this. I bet the boy who has the trophy is embarrassed by having it because he didn't win. 

Yup.  Her coach or mom/dad should just print out a certificate for her to remind her of the occasion, and in the long run she's way more famous now than she would be if that rule weren't there.  This is actually a good thing. 

[Buckeyebowman]

10 hours ago, DeadMan said:

I just want to pop in and say that everybody knows who wins this tournament. Who cares about the trophy? We need to give kids more credit than this. I bet the boy who has the trophy is embarrassed by having it because he didn't win. 

I have a hard time getting too amped up about this considering she'll have a chance to play as an individual in a girl's tournament in the spring. 

Good point, DeadMan. We do need to give the kids credit for knowing what's what. You see these "no score keeping" leagues in youth baseball and soccer, but the kids know who won and what their record is! At least in golf they still keep score!

What kills me is that it's addled, PC adults who have done this! Maybe by recognizing the BS that is being shoved down their throats, a generation of highly intelligent, hyper competitive youngsters will arise!

[Denny Bang Bang]

From everything I’ve read, it seems fair that she wasn’t allowed to trophy individually (there is a girls tournament she can participate in).  I do believe there should be an option to choose, as @iacas stated they allow in PA.  Maybe MA will update for such option at some point (although I believe it should go both ways... if we want true equality).

@No Mulligans Agree, this performance will look good as she’s getting her name out to the college coaches.  In addition, the way she and her father handled it, also shows the coaches her character.

@onthehunt526 Depends where in NY, Ithaca is a smaller city.  There are several girls golf teams where I’m from in NY.  It’s going to be more common in Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, etc.

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

(although I believe it should go both ways... if we want true equality).

Sign me up for that, I'd dominate and win state by 10 strokes. I'm not kidding about that, I'm dead serious.

But seriously, it should only go one way if that's an option. The whole "equality" thing is dumb when all it would do is make it impossible for girls to compete and win the girls golf tournaments. Girls and boys, and guys and gals, are not equal when it comes to a majority of athletic endeavors and it's dumb to pretend otherwise.

[Denny Bang Bang]

38 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Sign me up for that, I'd dominate and win state by 10 strokes. I'm not kidding about that, I'm dead serious.

But seriously, it should only go one way if that's an option. The whole "equality" thing is dumb when all it would do is make it impossible for girls to compete and win the girls golf tournaments. Girls and boys, and guys and gals, are not equal when it comes to a majority of athletic endeavors and it's dumb to pretend otherwise.

I’m not pretending boys & girls, in general, have equal athletic abilities in any way.  I played football through college, and coached at the college level, so I’m not “dumb” when it comes to assessing athletic ability and human performance.

Title IX is about equal opportunity, and not denying participation on the basis of sex.  It’s not equal if girls can participate in a boys tournament, and boys can’t participate in a girls tournament.  Has to do with opportunity, not necessarily ability.

[Papa Steve 55]

I think everybody directly involved handled it really well. Locally, some of the media made a fire storm (shocker), of it and the some of the masses, not bothering to read beyond the headline, fed the flames.

Welcome to fast food news.

 

[Kingkat1954]

IMHO, the "rule" should be:  IF a student competes, regardless of gender, then THEY are eligible for ANY and ALL tournaments, and matches including team or individual results. 

Besides, the young lady did play from the.............(ahem) Men's Tees, correct? So, maybe some jealousy here...........whatever!

 

 

[iacas]

44 minutes ago, Kingkat1954 said:

IMHO, the "rule" should be:  IF a student competes, regardless of gender, then THEY are eligible for ANY and ALL tournaments, and matches including team or individual results.

The problem with that is that she'd get to double dip, competing in both the girls and boys individual titles.

Right now, they let her compete in the team event (with boys, as she doesn't have a girls team), and girls states.

I think the current setup is pretty good.

[Golfingdad]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

The problem with that is that she'd get to double dip, competing in both the girls and boys individual titles.

Right now, they let her compete in the team event (with boys, as she doesn't have a girls team), and girls states.

I think the current setup is pretty good.

That wouldn’t be a bad or uncommon thing, if you stipulate that girls golf is created for the same reason as many other girls sports,and age designated sports; because, by and large, they couldn’t compete otherwise.

Senior tour players and web.com tour players can “double dip” on the PGA tour.  Guys over 25 can double dip in the Mid am and am tourneys and guys over 55 can triple dip if they’re good enough in senior, mid am, and am tourneys.

There are lots of situations where people can “play up” to more competitive situations when they feel it’s necessary, and this could be one of those.

[Pretzel]

5 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

That wouldn’t be a bad or uncommon thing, if you stipulate that girls golf is created for the same reason as many other girls sports,and age designated sports; because, by and large, they couldn’t compete otherwise.

Yes it would be bad, because it gives certain players twice the chances at playing in and winning state or regional championship events. At that point girls are being given a greater opportunity than boys, simply by having something missing between their legs. 

If they want to play with the boys, then they would need to not also play with the girls. I have nothing against them competing up to play against a higher level of competition, so long as they aren't getting twice the opportunities just for being a girl. If they play and compete with the boys like they want, then they should become ineligible for the girls season.

 

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

That wouldn’t be a bad or uncommon thing, if you stipulate that girls golf is created for the same reason as many other girls sports,and age designated sports; because, by and large, they couldn’t compete otherwise.

Senior tour players and web.com tour players can “double dip” on the PGA tour.  Guys over 25 can double dip in the Mid am and am tourneys and guys over 55 can triple dip if they’re good enough in senior, mid am, and am tourneys.

There are lots of situations where people can “play up” to more competitive situations when they feel it’s necessary, and this could be one of those.

It could be, but it's high school sports, and there's really no history of "playing up" in high school sports like there are in the other situations.

It probably would've been more appropriate, too, rather than age-based things (because in some states, 5th graders can play for the high school golf team, like JB Holmes did), if you had pointed out that even within golf, Michelle Wie could have played in the U.S. Open AND the U.S. Women's Open.

But then again, the counter-point there is that it's not the U.S. Men's Open, and again, it's not high school sports.

[Golfingdad]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

It could be, but it's high school sports, and there's really no history of "playing up" in high school sports like there are in the other situations.

It probably would've been more appropriate, too, rather than age-based things (because in some states, 5th graders can play for the high school golf team, like JB Holmes did), if you had pointed out that even within golf, Michelle Wie could have played in the U.S. Open AND the U.S. Women's Open.

But then again, the counter-point there is that it's not the U.S. Men's Open, and again, it's not high school sports.

I don’t quite understand the “it’s high school sports” argument.  I also just don’t see what would be the big deal about her getting “two chances” at winning something.  She’s not getting two chances at winning the same thing.

When I was a sophomore and out JV baseball playoffs ended, I got to go up and play on the varsity team throughout their state playoff run.  I got two chances to win a high school baseball championship and nobody cared.

[iacas]

You had a junior varsity championship? Why? JV is a holding tank for kids not good enough for varsity. They had championships for that?

High school sports are separated by gender. That’s the point. She is accommodated and allowed to compete for a team championship but has to play individually as a girl.

If a high school has a softball and baseball team I’ve never heard of someone being allowed to do both. Probably has but not generally. Swim teams don’t see people crossing over, even though some female swimmers are good. Etc.

High school sports are generally gender constrained. The other situations you listed are not in that same way.

Sometimes the restriction isn’t about ability. A good 14 year old boy can’t play “up” in an LPGA Tour event.

[todgot]

I would say it makes sense because she can't win a tournament she wasn't entered.  She was entered as a player in the team event but not the individual event.  How can you win a tournament you weren't entered? 

The coach and the player knew going in she couldn't win the individual event... again because she wasn't entered... but could possibly help the team advance to state.  It didn't work and they didn't advance to state anyway which to me says their boys team isn't very good.  She's a stud and will likely beat the girls this spring. 

 

[iacas]

23 minutes ago, todgot said:

The coach and the player knew going in she couldn't win the individual event... again because she wasn't entered... but could possibly help the team advance to state.

It turns out the coaches knew but didn't tell the player. She was playing without knowing that she couldn't win.

[Golfingdad]

On 10/29/2017 at 12:09 PM, iacas said:

You had a junior varsity championship? Why? JV is a holding tank for kids not good enough for varsity. They had championships for that?

We played for the league title, sure.  Same thing with Freshman baseball too.

We also played in holiday basketball tournaments and Easter baseball tournaments at freshman and JV levels, all complete with trophies. :)

[iacas]

 

 

 

[Pardner]

On 10/26/2017 at 12:41 PM, No Mulligans said:

This story and media attention is probably really good for her. If college recruiters hadn't noticed her before they sure will now. 

http://golfweek.com/2017/10/31/high-school-golfer-emily-nash-scores-trophy-with-invite-to-annika-invitational/