Winter Rules

[scotth]

All the area courses around here are now closed for the season, but most of the private courses allow members to brave the elements and play year round.  This has prompted several discussions lately on the first tee box about winter rules.

Usually somebody will say winter rules are in effect, as if that makes everything ok with what is about to happen.  Then I see people moving leafs out of sand traps to play their ball.  Picking ball up and moving their ball 5 - 10 yards forward to get clear of wet areas, or leafy areas, and a host of other weird things, including one guy with an actual broom in his bag sweeping the green on his ball path to get rid of dirt, leafs and twigs.  

I really don't care, since I figure it is all practice at this point.  No tee box markers or pins on the green makes things pretty relaxed as far as I am concerned.  I am just happy to be swinging my clubs and hitting balls while walking to get exercise.

My question however is there such a thing as a written set of "winter rules"?  Or is it a local rule / common sense kind of thing?

[NM Golf]

http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14383

See the link above for the USGA's take on preferred lies/adverse course conditions.

[Club Rat]

4 minutes ago, scotth said:

My question however is there such a thing as a written set of "winter rules"?

There are No Winter Rules as per USGA. Most Northern areas, score posting will halt so therefore many golfers and clubs will play more relaxed-casual guidelines style golf.
At our club, we rake and place in bunkers, clean and place in fairways.
I know some guys play a "Lost Ball in Leaf areas" 
And I'm sure other golfers will make other conditions due to course conditions and such.

[iacas]

I say who cares? You're not in a season when you can post.

If you're playing a match, just agree on the rules beforehand.

[scotth]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

I say who cares? You're not in a season when you can post.

If you're playing a match, just agree on the rules beforehand.

That's how I look at it.  I am just happy to be getting a chance to play.  It does amuse me how serious some people are taking it. 

Certainly not playing a match.

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, scotth said:

All the area courses around here are now closed for the season, but most of the private courses allow members to brave the elements and play year round.  This has prompted several discussions lately on the first tee box about winter rules.

Usually somebody will say winter rules are in effect, as if that makes everything ok with what is about to happen.  Then I see people moving leafs out of sand traps to play their ball.  Picking ball up and moving their ball 5 - 10 yards forward to get clear of wet areas, or leafy areas, and a host of other weird things, including one guy with an actual broom in his bag sweeping the green on his ball path to get rid of dirt, leafs and twigs.  

I really don't care, since I figure it is all practice at this point.  No tee box markers or pins on the green makes things pretty relaxed as far as I am concerned.  I am just happy to be swinging my clubs and hitting balls while walking to get exercise.

My question however is there such a thing as a written set of "winter rules"?  Or is it a local rule / common sense kind of thing?

While the Rules of Golf do have an authorized local rule for preferred lies, that isn't really what is used by most of the guys I've played with under what they can "winter rules".  Most players just seem to feel that winter rules means that you modify any situation to suit your fancy.  Rather than just lift clean and place in the fairway, they will kick away from trees, move from rough to fairway, even if it's 5 yards away.  I've seen them take free drops from hazards under the peculiar justification that they shouldn't have to play from frozen mud, even though they'd have no problem taking the penalty in the summer. 

Winter rules can turn into a free-for-all, but it really doesn't bother me, since there is no handicap reporting here from the 15th of November to March 15 anyway, and I don't play for money with guys who are that lose with the rules.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Fourputt

[Pardner]

59 minutes ago, iacas said:

I say who cares? You're not in a season when you can post.

If you're playing a match, just agree on the rules beforehand.

How does that apply to different areas of the country?  The conditions here in NC are still pretty good and I'd say we should still be recording scores.  At some point in the near future, the grass will go dormant and leaves will start becoming a real problem for finding balls.  You'll have to start hitting off of something pretty close to dirt soon but it typically is not a snow and ice situation.  I used to just keep Golf Channel tournament scores for my index because it didn't really matter to the guys that I played with and Golf Channel had their own handicap system based on tournament events only. I've started playing in CGA and Myrtle Beach World Am events and quickly found out that my index should be lower that what I was initially reporting.  Sooo, I've been recording everything for a while now and it's come down to what seems about right.  Going by the " Section 7 PREFERRED LIES (WINTER RULES) AND ADVERSE COURSE CONDITIONS " rules, it sounds like most of the winter golf I play here in NC should be recorded because things don't often get that extreme here and when there's snow on the ground, I'm not gonna play.  I'm trying to gauge what's the right thing to do because I know that as conditions get worse, my index will go up. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Pardner said:

How does that apply to different areas of the country?  The conditions here in NC are still pretty good and I'd say we should still be recording scores.

Well, it's not up to you whether you "should be" recording scores or not. Check with your local golf association. If you are supposed to be recording them, you should be.

2 minutes ago, Pardner said:

At some point in the near future, the grass will go dormant and leaves will start becoming a real problem for finding balls.

If you're still in posting season, you're supposed to honor the handicapping manual and rules. Preferred lies is about the only thing you can do - there is no "leaf rule" or anything like that for handicapped rounds.

Paging @DaveP043 as he's a handicap committee member or chairman…

[NM Golf]

http://www.usga.org/handicapping-articles/handicap-active-and-inactive-season-schedule-25489.html

North Carolina is a year round state so rounds played within the rules year round should be posted to GHIN. 

[DaveP043]

NC and VA are both year round posting states.  If conditions get REALLY bad your handicap committee can consider temporarily stopping posting, but the USGA recommends that this be done only as a last resort, for instance if there's snow cover or flooding.  If your club institutes a local rule for preferred lies, you play by those rules and post your scores, and the USGA has supplied a suggested local rule for this situation.  If there's no local rule, you play by the Rules of Golf, and post that score.  

There's an interesting dual effect of year round posting, and the use of preferred lies.  In miserable conditions, you typically score worse, so lots of my friends who do play through the winter have handicaps which rise.  This is perfectly legitimate, even if your handicap in March or April is a stroke or two higher than it was in October.  Those spring handicaps aren't "too high", they ARE what they should be based on the scores which were required to be posted.  Using preferred lies tends to make things "easier", which should lower scores somewhat, but will also get players spoiled as they play from perfect lies all the time.  Come spring, and put  them back to normal variable lies, and they can find it hard to adjust.  

The end result, pretty much whenever you play in NC, you post your score, as long as it is "acceptable" (played with someone else, play at least 13 holes, play by the rules, etc.). 

[Papa Steve 55]

If your not posting scores its basically a practice round with friends. As long as you all agree before hand what does it matter? In New England we started winter rules 11/1 because 10/31 is the last round that can posted. The course has laid off most of the help so the bunkers get no maintenance so we clear stuff and move the ball as needed. There are two holes on the greens and the flag rotates between them. Sometimes we play that you can putt to whichever you like.

Winter rules really has nothing to do with the weather, so call them off season rules if you want.

[NCGolfer]

5 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

The end result, pretty much whenever you play in NC, you post your score, as long as it is "acceptable" (played with someone else, play at least 13 holes, play by the rules, etc.). 

Yup.  I post year round down here.  I don't see a huge swing in handicaps but, yes, they generally do rise and early-year tournaments have me doing a double-take at a couple people.  

[jsgolfer]

Winter rules.  Lol

 

[Buckeyebowman]

We do play some Winter rules here, but we will comment if we see someone trying to get away with murder! We will agree in advance if we will invoke the "leaf rule", since some places do a great job with leaves and other places,usually the places that are open year round, do not! 

As far as leaf removal goes, I once read that you are allowed to sweep them from the line of your putt with towel if necessary! Also, I once witnessed a foursome where one cart carried a battery powered leaf blower! 

[Martyn W]

On 11/3/2017 at 2:00 PM, iacas said:

Preferred lies is about the only thing you can do - there is no "leaf rule" or anything like that for handicapped rounds.

There actually is a 'leaf Rule' :

33-8/31

 

Local Rule Providing Relief from Accumulations of Leaves Through the Green

The Committee may make a temporary Local Rule declaring accumulations of leaves through the green at certain holes to be ground under repair (see Definition of "Ground Under Repair") and Rule 25-1 will apply.

The Local Rule should be restricted to the hole(s) at which trouble with leaves occurs and it should be withdrawn as soon as conditions permit. Particular attention is drawn to the opening paragraph of Rule 25-1c; unless it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the leaves, it must be treated as lost elsewhere and Rule 27-1 applies.

[Rulesman]

On 11/8/2017 at 2:11 AM, Buckeyebowman said:

 As far as leaf removal goes, I once read that you are allowed to sweep them from the line of your putt with towel if necessary! Also, I once witnessed a foursome where one cart carried a battery powered leaf blower! 

You may always remove detached leaves from your line of putt (or anywhere else except a bunker or water hazard), with a towel  or any method you wish. Providing you don't move your ball or cause undue delay.

[Martyn W]

36 minutes ago, Rulesman said:

Providing you don't move your ball or cause undue delay.

There is no penalty if the removal of LI on the putting green causes the ball to move, marked or not (as I'm sure you know :))  [R 23-1]

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Martyn W said:

There actually is a 'leaf Rule' :

That's not the "leaf rule" that people play. People play it as if your ball is lost in any leaves, you can drop it there and play on. Courses do not generally create the local rule noted above.

I know about the committee's right to declare accumulations of leaves on certain holes as GUR. I was using the word "leaf rule" the way golfers use it.

Just now, Martyn W said:

There is no penalty if the removal of LI on the putting green causes the ball to move, marked or not (as I'm sure you know :))  [R 23-1]

Or if the movement is accidental and the local rule re: that is in place.