This whole built like a linebacker thing.

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, Alx said:

Take a look at practically any top level sprinter. Long drive guys? Javelin? 

Strength = speed potential. Speed athletes are not inherently going for size its just a byproduct of getting stronger and faster. If it was we would have meat balls like IFBB pros breaking records at everything speed related. The whole bulking up too much is pretty much a myth for natural athletes anyways.

"Developing muscles the wrong way" is a myth atleast for the part that it would be a permanent hindrance to performance.

Compared to an average non gym trained human? Golf pros on average dont stand out as athletes based on their physique.

BMI is such a poor measurement when applied outside the general population. Top tier football players are in the 10% bf range while the general population sits at  around 20 on avg. A 170lb pro footballer and a 170lb avg joe have wildly different body comps.

To clarify:
Im not saying golfers need to be bigger for the sake of being big and jacked. All Im saying is pro golfers are leaving "free" performance on the table by having an avg Joes physique. Looking like an athlete is again just a byproduct not the the main goal.

I'm guessing that you think there might be much more fit professional golfers in the future? If so, how do you think they will look?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Alx said:

Take a look at practically any top level sprinter. Long drive guys? Javelin? 

Those aren't bulky guys IMO.

Nor is Jamie Sadlowski.

1 hour ago, Alx said:

Strength = speed potential.

I don't agree. I think they're two separate things.

1 hour ago, Alx said:

Speed athletes are not inherently going for size its just a byproduct of getting stronger and faster. If it was we would have meat balls like IFBB pros breaking records at everything speed related. The whole bulking up too much is pretty much a myth for natural athletes anyways.

Heavy guys can't go as fast because they have more mass to move.

The longest hitter on my college team is a stringbean. The second longest hitter… weighs literally 3x what the longest hitter weighs.

[saevel25]

That is a good point. More mass means it takes more energy to move. NFL players are always at that line of being as heavy as possible with out losing a step. You can see it in a running back who may have gained 10-15 lbs in the off season. They are a step slower.

[sharpljp]

I played linebacker in high school, then college. MLB (middle). I bench today almost 400 (used to do more) and, from my own personal experience, this absolutely does not help in golf. I'm perplexed as to seeing Rory try to bulk up. I'm not a pro but I can observe that since Rory began to bulk he has not been as good. I always thought that Tiger and Rory would have to be yoga 24/7 to achieve the necessary level of flexibility to swing like they. It is this simple IMO.. more muscle mass = less Range of Motion. The football build is great for big muscles (think chest, quads, muscles that help players drive opposing players away like when a lineman blocks, he is sort of bench pressing). Lifts such as power cleaning help with the "fast twitch" muscles and help players become more explosive. I could see lifts like this helping golfers but still, more muscle = less flexibility and less ROM. I don't know much but I do know that flexibility and ROM are important in golf. 

Also, take my word, no PGA golfers come remotely close to the physique and strength of a NFL player. Not even close. I've seen Woodland, Vegas, Ernie, etc.. Even if it's the strongest built PGA player.. still not even close. Whole different animal. 

I am VERY glad that this discussion is taking place because I truly feel that a man who has a bulky chest and big arms CAN NOT have the same swing mechanics as let's say Dustin Johnson. I have been taking swing advice from local pros who are string beans. Not strong individuals. Maybe they can bench 145? But.. they drive the hell out of the ball. 300+ every single time.

Has anyone here ever seen a bodybuilder golf before? 

I totally wish that there was golf instruction for bodybuilder type physiques. I have been looking forever and have not found much except for.. well here is craig stadler and he was big. Yes.. he was big and fat and FLEXIBLE. I am of the opinion that there IS a way for bodybuilder type physiques to be successful in golf (scratch handicap) but.. it will not be the same as 99% of others. Some mechanics would be the same.. but some mechanics, i would expect, would have to be different. 

Anyone who would like to point out tips, articles, youtube videos, etc for swing help for bodybuilder type physiques would be more than greatly appreciated. 

 

[rehmwa]

5 minutes ago, sharpljp said:

300+ every single time.

I know you are just exagerating to make the point.  Thought I'd give benefit of the doubt before more literal types jump on that.    Though I'd wonder if anyone that can't press 145 would be able to hit 300 at all.  There certainly has to be a minimum fitness/strength to hit that far.  I suspect even if you don't think they look like they can, they probably can lift that much and more - if they are long bombers.  Looks can be deceiving.

You insight on the topic is appreciated quite a bit since you're on the extreme end of the body type in this discussion (at least for golfers)

 

There are instructors here, quite a few good ones really.  Maybe they can highlight if one accommodates the mechanics to the body type, or accommodates the body type to the mechanics......

Edited November 14, 2017 by rehmwa

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, sharpljp said:

I played linebacker in high school, then college. MLB (middle). I bench today almost 400 (used to do more) and, from my own personal experience, this absolutely does not help in golf. I'm perplexed as to seeing Rory try to bulk up. I'm not a pro but I can observe that since Rory began to bulk he has not been as good. I always thought that Tiger and Rory would have to be yoga 24/7 to achieve the necessary level of flexibility to swing like they. It is this simple IMO.. more muscle mass = less Range of Motion. The football build is great for big muscles (think chest, quads, muscles that help players drive opposing players away like when a lineman blocks, he is sort of bench pressing). Lifts such as power cleaning help with the "fast twitch" muscles and help players become more explosive. I could see lifts like this helping golfers but still, more muscle = less flexibility and less ROM. I don't know much but I do know that flexibility and ROM are important in golf. 

Also, take my word, no PGA golfers come remotely close to the physique and strength of a NFL player. Not even close. I've seen Woodland, Vegas, Ernie, etc.. Even if it's the strongest built PGA player.. still not even close. Whole different animal. 

I am VERY glad that this discussion is taking place because I truly feel that a man who has a bulky chest and big arms CAN NOT have the same swing mechanics as let's say Dustin Johnson. I have been taking swing advice from local pros who are string beans. Not strong individuals. Maybe they can bench 145? But.. they drive the hell out of the ball. 300+ every single time.

Has anyone here ever seen a bodybuilder golf before? 

I totally wish that there was golf instruction for bodybuilder type physiques. I have been looking forever and have not found much except for.. well here is craig stadler and he was big. Yes.. he was big and fat and FLEXIBLE. I am of the opinion that there IS a way for bodybuilder type physiques to be successful in golf (scratch handicap) but.. it will not be the same as 99% of others. Some mechanics would be the same.. but some mechanics, i would expect, would have to be different. 

Anyone who would like to point out tips, articles, youtube videos, etc for swing help for bodybuilder type physiques would be more than greatly appreciated. 

Interesting, and kind of verifies what my gut feeling tells me. Most large people without flexibility don't have that much of an advantage, there are obvious exceptions.

Actually, I have seen a bodybuilder type golf. Jason Zuback and Mike Dobbyn whom I've seen hit balls in person a few years back. They hit really far. . .Conversely, I've seen really big guys (like actors from Game of Thrones big) play at some local courses, and have to say that my expectations for humongous drives were shattered. They could barely make decent contact on most shots, but when they made perfect contact the ball would soar a long way. Kind of like watching videos of Charles Barkley playing.

 

3 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

I know you are just exagerating to make the point.  Thought I'd give benefit of the doubt before more literal types jump on that. 

You insight on the topic is appreciated quite a bit since you're on the extreme end of the body type in this discussion (at least for golfers)

Might not be, if his instructors play in web.com tournaments where the tour average is 302.9 yards then for sure. There are lots of wannabees who also drive that far who are local instructors somewhere? One of my current instructors easily hits 300+ yards. Almost carry.

[mdl]

5 hours ago, TN94z said:

Those bodybuilders can't be winning much then. Most bodybuilder shows I have been to and had friends in, you're going to have to be around the 3-5% range to do any good, unless you are in Men's physique. I know several guys that are jacked and walk around daily at 7-8%. You really don't even start seeing abs until around 12%, so just think about all of the guys you see with abs.

I'm not super knowledgable here, so I won't say anymore after this.  But the youtube rabbit hole I went down once was basically a bunch of guys making the point that everyone thinks that, but they're using antiquated measurements.  One video I'm remembering in particular showed test day pics of a whole bunch of guys, super cut, with very distinct abs, looking very much like bodybuilders not on competition day, coming in with DEXA numbers in the low to mid teens, one as high as 17% if memory serves.

[Seals]

5 hours ago, rehmwa said:

Though I'd wonder if anyone that can't press 145 would be able to hit 300 at all. 

Not to get off topic, but I have played with some juniors who hit it legit 270 and weigh maybe 125lbs. With arms the size of a grown mans wrists. Do you think Bubba could bench 145? 

[TN94z]

5 hours ago, mdl said:

I'm not super knowledgable here, so I won't say anymore after this.  But the youtube rabbit hole I went down once was basically a bunch of guys making the point that everyone thinks that, but they're using antiquated measurements.  One video I'm remembering in particular showed test day pics of a whole bunch of guys, super cut, with very distinct abs, looking very much like bodybuilders not on competition day, coming in with DEXA numbers in the low to mid teens, one as high as 17% if memory serves.

Understandable on non comp days. It’s hard for me to believe someone had abs showing at 17%, but I guess maybe they had crazy good genetics or something. The guys I’m referring to were using bodpod and hydrostatic. Either way, I’ve taken it a bit off topic..sorry

[Seals]

6 hours ago, sharpljp said:

I played linebacker in high school, then college. MLB (middle). I bench today almost 400

Dang, that is some serious weight. Since we got someone experienced in this realm, could you tell me the difference of being "Country/Farm Strong (Think O-line men in NFL) and Defined Strong (Like NFL Linebacker)

[Alx]

8 hours ago, iacas said:

Those aren't bulky guys IMO.

Nor is Jamie Sadlowski.

I don't agree. I think they're two separate things.

Heavy guys can't go as fast because they have more mass to move.

The longest hitter on my college team is a stringbean. The second longest hitter… weighs literally 3x what the longest hitter weighs.

They still have >20lb on your avg tour pro.

Sadlowski is very strong and a poor example for your case. Guy benches 220+ and deadlifts 500+. As I said its not inherently about getting bigger. Also his mobility is exceptional. A low bf will fool the eye especially with a comparatively small upper body. For a natural the size gains are always going to be subtle.

They arent. Even the research is pretty clear on this.

Look you believe what you want. Youre always going to find exceptions. The mass adds more performance than what you lose in the weight gain. Why do you think baseball players started using anabolics? To get bigger, stronger and thus faster.

 

 

Sadlowski deadlifting 480 for 10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uLKEP9MYHo

Asafa Powell box squatting 585 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvzWB9EDZkA

I wonder how fast these guys would be if someone told them to stop strength training since its slowing them down . Come on now...

 

9 hours ago, Lihu said:

I'm guessing that you think there might be much more fit professional golfers in the future? If so, how do you think they will look?

I do. Every sport(exc  maybe snooker etc.) goes through the same development as they become more competitive and players seek to gain an edge. The same myths about strength training have been perpetuated for years and they slowly dissipate as more and more players pop up that break the "rule".

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Alx said:

They still have >20lb on your avg tour pro.

I’m sure some do.

I’m not a physical training guy. So you may well be right. I just know I’ve seen plenty of strong, slow guys and plenty of weak, fast guys.

And I still think we have fast twitch and slow twitch muscles in varying amounts, and they do different things.

[saevel25]

Just now, iacas said:

And I still think we have fast twitch and slow twitch muscles in varying amounts, and they do different things.

We do. We actually have three muscle fiber types. 

Each muscle group has it's percentage and that is also obviously based on genetics and training. Genetics play a big part. 

Some people have faster arms and turn rates than other people. There is only so much people can get from exercising. Sadlowski hit 400 yard drives at the age of 16. He had the innate ability to begin with. It wasn't his weight lifting program.

 

 

[rehmwa]

14 hours ago, Seals said:

Not to get off topic, but I have played with some juniors who hit it legit 270 and weigh maybe 125lbs. With arms the size of a grown mans wrists. Do you think Bubba could bench 145? 

Yeah, I do think he can.  145 is warmup weight.  He's a bigger guy than many realize I understand.  He's dresses like a duff, that likely doesn't help the image at all.

[Lihu]

26 minutes ago, rehmwa said:

Yeah, I do think he can.  145 is warmup weight.  He's a bigger guy than many realize I understand.  He's dresses like a duff, that likely doesn't help the image at all.

I also think he can bench 145, but he's definitely not a big guy. His wide is more buff than him. . .

http://www.playerwives.com/golf/bubba-watson-wife-angie-watson/

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by Lihu

[MuniGrit]

I'd love for my favorite football team to play against LB's the size of the guys you listed.

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

I'd love for my favorite football team to play against LB's the size of the guys you listed.

I'd guess that any PGA player would look like he was in a major car wreck if he got hit by either Daren Bates or Donald Payne who are only about average PGA player height weighing in at a svelte 225-ish pounds.

I looked up "smallest linebackers" to find their names. 

[NM Golf]

It's about fast twitch muscles and proper technique. People consider me to be long off the tee. I am also a fairly big guy. I was a high school and college athlete and I was a workout machine in my younger days benching over 350lbs at one time. I don't think it is my strength that allows me to hit a ball as far as I do, I am just naturally built to do it. As a college baseball player I was a power hitter and I had excellent arm strength. I was not, however, all that fast.

When I started playing golf I naturally hit the ball farther than most, when I made decent contact that is. My length actually increased as my overall strength diminished as I stopped lifting, but my golf abilities increased. I hit the ball just as far or farther today as I did 15 years ago because I make better contact, I am certainly not stronger than I was 15 years ago.

I also believe, as @sharpljp stated that bigger chested, stockier physique, heavier players have ever so slightly different mechanics from our more slightly built peers. At least I do, my swing is not what you would call traditional, but it works alright for me.