This whole built like a linebacker thing.

[sharpljp]

Dude sorry but you don't know what you are talking about but I'm done with trying to explain to you my point.

Steroids DO NOT make you bigger just because you stick a needle in your arm.. you still have to go in the gym and bust your ass.. steroids just give you the ability to grow muscle (once you have tore it up by lifting) much faster because the muscles recover insanely fast and grow more (bigger) due to ungodly testosterone levels. That is what Mark McGwire did. He took steroids and hit the gym hard as hell. I'm sure you already knew this.. but doing steroids was not technically against the rules. So it didn't matter that he got big as shit. He didn't get big as shit just because he took a pill every day. He had an insane workout routine, like Alex Rodriguez when he did roids (do you know who he is?), and put on massive amounts of muscle. @Alx if you can't understand that or don't want to believe it then don't. I would love to hear your lecture on muscle growth and how it happens. 

Colin, my point was that it does happen and it's not that big of a deal. I never said it was common in a high school setting. Maybe it's because I lift with the bodybuilder type gymgoers that I feel like it's common. Maybe the amount of people that can push that weight is less than I think. I just recall from experience, which is all I can do. 

Bullshit is not in my vocabulary.

Steroids boost your testosterone levels and they help you recover quicker. They don't magically make you big @Alx. 

It does not take that much common sense, even if you are clueless on the topic, that a professional athlete, in any sport, who plays arduous season long schedules, would benefit greatly by taking steroids at some point during the season to help recover their broken down bodies. More pro athletes use them to recover than to get big as shit like McGwire. @Alx can you understand this? Because this is what actually happens, contrary to bullshit you may read on the internet.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, Alx said:

Then you should know that 450*10 at 170 bw does not happen all the time.

170 pound guy squatting 450 10 reps? That's pretty amazing. Probably less than 4'5" tall.

Quote

A classic example of desirable lever lengths and body proportions in powerlifting is Andrzej Stanaszek of Poland. By definition, Stanaszek is a dwarf, having extremely short arms and legs. However, in a 2003 meet, he set world records by squatting 662.5 pounds and bench pressing 402.3 pounds . . . at a bodyweight of 114.

 

However, I think @sharpljp was referring to larger athletes pushing that kind of weight around.

[colin007]

20 minutes ago, Lihu said:

170 pound guy squatting 450 10 reps? That's pretty amazing. Probably less than 4'5" tall.

 

However, I think @sharpljp was referring to larger athletes pushing that kind of weight around.

He was referring to a deadlift, not a squat. Totally different exercise. 

Also, just picking nits, but Jamie wasn't doing what I'd call a classic deadlift because of the trap bar he was using. It's a bit more difficult to use a regular straight bar and negotiate it out in front of you rather than around you.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, colin007 said:

He was referring to a deadlift, not a squat. Totally different exercise. 

Also, just picking nits, but Jamie wasn't doing what I'd call a classic deadlift because of the trap bar he was using. It's a bit more difficult to use a regular straight bar and negotiate it out in front of you rather than around you.

Ah, I see. Then I agree with @sharpljp, 450 deadlift is pretty common.

[Alx]

2 hours ago, sharpljp said:

Dude sorry but you don't know what you are talking about but I'm done with trying to explain to you my point.

Steroids DO NOT make you bigger just because you stick a needle in your arm.. you still have to go in the gym and bust your ass.. steroids just give you the ability to grow muscle (once you have tore it up by lifting) much faster because the muscles recover insanely fast and grow more (bigger) due to ungodly testosterone levels. That is what Mark McGwire did. He took steroids and hit the gym hard as hell. I'm sure you already knew this.. but doing steroids was not technically against the rules. So it didn't matter that he got big as shit. He didn't get big as shit just because he took a pill every day. He had an insane workout routine, like Alex Rodriguez when he did roids (do you know who he is?), and put on massive amounts of muscle. @Alx if you can't understand that or don't want to believe it then don't. I would love to hear your lecture on muscle growth and how it happens. 

Colin, my point was that it does happen and it's not that big of a deal. I never said it was common in a high school setting. Maybe it's because I lift with the bodybuilder type gymgoers that I feel like it's common. Maybe the amount of people that can push that weight is less than I think. I just recall from experience, which is all I can do. 

Bullshit is not in my vocabulary.

Steroids boost your testosterone levels and they help you recover quicker. They don't magically make you big @Alx. 

It does not take that much common sense, even if you are clueless on the topic, that a professional athlete, in any sport, who plays arduous season long schedules, would benefit greatly by taking steroids at some point during the season to help recover their broken down bodies. More pro athletes use them to recover than to get big as shit like McGwire. @Alx can you understand this? Because this is what actually happens, contrary to bullshit you may read on the internet.

Youre just plain wrong. Steroids DO make you bigger by just sticking a needle in your arm. Its just that simple. There are plenty of studies where the group that was on gear and not training gained more mass than the group training and not on gear. The beliefs youre spreading have long been proven wrong. Read up on the studies and stop spreading old myths and bs.

You get more for less/same amount of work. Fact.

No one is denying that steroids help with recovery but theres no point to belittle the performance boost you can get.

If you wanna take shots at what I say go ahead but your anecdoctal evidence doesnt really go far.

 

[sharpljp]

@Alx I'm over it. I will look into the studies. I don't believe that simply sticking a needle in your arm will get you jacked. But no hard feelings, carry on. Speaking of roids.. Jason Zuback looked like he could be juicing. I wonder if there have been any other golfers built like Zuback but are better all around golfers? Zuback hits it a mile but I can't imagine him being deadly accurate with a sand wedge?..

Edited November 22, 2017 by sharpljp

[kpaulhus]

2 hours ago, sharpljp said:

@Alx I'm over it. I will look into the studies. I don't believe that simply sticking a needle in your arm will get you jacked. But no hard feelings, carry on. Speaking of roids.. Jason Zuback looked like he could be juicing. I wonder if there have been any other golfers built like Zuback but are better all around golfers? Zuback hits it a mile but I can't imagine him being deadly accurate with a sand wedge?..

Jacked and gaining muscle mass are two different things, though. I can attest to benching 405 and deadlifting 600 in college. I dabbled with the juice once. It’s incredible. It’s banned for a reason. Literally everyday wake up and bench 405 no recovery period needed. Even a scrape on your elbow heals faster because of it.

Regarding the announcers talking about linebacker builds, nobody on the PGA tour looks like a linebacker. It’s blown out of perspective but gets viewers and internet forms buzzing about how jacked Rory is. 

On the topic of speed and hitting it far, I have a buddy who weighs 110lbs less than I do and he can outdrive me with a 3 wood. Speed is a god given talent you’re born with. Some guys train their whole lives and never achieve the speed another guy is just naturally born with. You can increase your numbers, but it’s not as easy as going to the gym and stretching. 

For reference, I’m 6’3 270 lbs at the moment. Per what @saevel25 said, I’ve been 270lbs with a 40” waist and a 36” waist, completely different looks. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by kpaulhus

[Seals]

You guys are making my numbers seem weak. I thought my lifting was decent.

[Lihu]

3 hours ago, sharpljp said:

@Alx I'm over it. I will look into the studies. I don't believe that simply sticking a needle in your arm will get you jacked. But no hard feelings, carry on. Speaking of roids.. Jason Zuback looked like he could be juicing. I wonder if there have been any other golfers built like Zuback but are better all around golfers? Zuback hits it a mile but I can't imagine him being deadly accurate with a sand wedge?..

I don't think Zuback did steroids. He's older now and still pretty buff.

Usually people who do steroids age prematurely, and also they get super thin as they get older.

[Alx]

On 11/22/2017 at 3:49 AM, sharpljp said:

@Alx I'm over it. I will look into the studies. I don't believe that simply sticking a needle in your arm will get you jacked. But no hard feelings, carry on. Speaking of roids.. Jason Zuback looked like he could be juicing. I wonder if there have been any other golfers built like Zuback but are better all around golfers? Zuback hits it a mile but I can't imagine him being deadly accurate with a sand wedge?..

People disagree. All good. A lot of good reads out there for sure.

 

On 11/22/2017 at 7:25 AM, Lihu said:

I don't think Zuback did steroids. He's older now and still pretty buff.

Usually people who do steroids age prematurely, and also they get super thin as they get older.

If you take a 20yo and throw them on a heavy cycle theyll get that raspier look faster but the "aging" pace doesnt really keep up. They get small if they get off. Feedback loop messes up the natural test production.

Pretty obvious imo:

 

 

[Lihu]

20 minutes ago, Alx said:

If you take a 20yo and throw them on a heavy cycle theyll get that raspier look faster but the "aging" pace doesnt really keep up. They get small if they get off. Feedback loop messes up the natural test production.

Pretty obvious imo:

 

I shook hands with him a few years ago, and he really didn’t look like the typical steroid user. Most people with less than 12% body fat have veins showing.

Plus, he’s 50 something, and I would think that continued use of steroids would have killed him by now.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Lihu

[iacas]

49 minutes ago, Alx said:

Pretty obvious imo:

You cannot tell just by looking at someone.

[Alx]

20 hours ago, Lihu said:

I shook hands with him a few years ago, and he really didn’t look like the typical steroid user. Most people with less than 12% body fat have veins showing.

Plus, he’s 50 something, and I would think that continued use of steroids would have killed him by now.

Well the thing is most users are cycling so their size varies considerably. Veins showing is not the same as having the permanent pump and veins the size of fingers you get from a lot of steroids from the increased blood volume(side of many anabolics).

Steroids dont kill you by the time youre 50 unless youve really gone crazy with the doses... Plenty of old bbers out there in their 50s and 60s whove been on gear since their 20s. The ones who do die are usually the extreme users such as Muntzer, Kovacs, Rich Piana or Sonbaty. Lee Priest is still kicking nearing 50(?) having been on it since his teens by his own admission.

 

19 hours ago, iacas said:

You cannot tell just by looking at someone.

Obvious bait is obvious but hey Ill bite . Look at any ifbb pro. Any pro strongman. You can tell by looking. You gotta turn it the other way around. You cant tell just by looking that someone isnt using. Plenty of long distance runners have been caught using test and those guys are skinny af. But when someone is obviously pushing far beyond the ffmi considered possible for a natural... Look up ffmi for starters.

 

[Lihu]

5 hours ago, Alx said:

Well the thing is most users are cycling so their size varies considerably. Veins showing is not the same as having the permanent pump and veins the size of fingers you get from a lot of steroids from the increased blood volume(side of many anabolics).

Steroids dont kill you by the time youre 50 unless youve really gone crazy with the doses... Plenty of old bbers out there in their 50s and 60s whove been on gear since their 20s. The ones who do die are usually the extreme users such as Muntzer, Kovacs, Rich Piana or Sonbaty. Lee Priest is still kicking nearing 50(?) having been on it since his teens by his own admission.

 

Obvious bait is obvious but hey Ill bite . Look at any ifbb pro. Any pro strongman. You can tell by looking. You gotta turn it the other way around. You cant tell just by looking that someone isnt using. Plenty of long distance runners have been caught using test and those guys are skinny af. But when someone is obviously pushing far beyond the ffmi considered possible for a natural... Look up ffmi for starters.

 

Zuback is just really big boned and proportionally built all around. I also took a break from work to read this article: https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/signs-steroid-use

He doesn't have the obvious signs like Roid Gut and other weird features? The only really way to tell is with a blood test.

This is about what he looked like when I met him a few years ago.

[Alx]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Zuback is just really big boned and proportionally built all around. I also took a break from work to read this article: https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/signs-steroid-use

He doesn't have the obvious signs like Roid Gut and other weird features? The only really way to tell is with a blood test.

This is about what he looked like when I met him a few years ago.

If a roid gut was the determining factor you could rule out most of even the heavy juicers. It takes years to develop and a combo of gear at heavy doses. It really isnt much of a concern unless youre going for hw bb size.

In that video he looks much more normal. Less dense and has that natural deflated look. Its very different from the era I posted. 

A blood test doesnt really work unless you catch them before stuff has cleared their system. Passing a drug test is nothing but an IQ test. You think Eastern europeans and Russians started using last year and just got caught? Hell no. Theyve been at it for years but theyve been clean for when it mattered and they had to pass the test.

Theres a lot of interesting reading on this that you can find but you wont find it in menshealth.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, Alx said:

If a roid gut was the determining factor you could rule out most of even the heavy juicers. It takes years to develop and a combo of gear at heavy doses. It really isnt much of a concern unless youre going for hw bb size.

In that video he looks much more normal. Less dense and has that natural deflated look. Its very different from the era I posted. 

A blood test doesnt really work unless you catch them before stuff has cleared their system. Passing a drug test is nothing but an IQ test. You think Eastern europeans and Russians started using last year and just got caught? Hell no. Theyve been at it for years but theyve been clean for when it mattered and they had to pass the test.

Theres a lot of interesting reading on this that you can find but you wont find it in menshealth.

Admittedly, I don't really know a lot about steroids or steroid use, so I'll defer to you but I did have to at least defend Jason and Mike because they're really nice people on top of being the among the longest hitters in the world.

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Alx said:

Obvious bait is obvious but hey Ill bite . Look at any ifbb pro. Any pro strongman. You can tell by looking.

No, you can't, and it's ridiculous that you'd use "he looks like he did" to put a guy in the "did steroids" box.

You do not get to be so cavalier with reputations. It's ridiculous.

[Alx]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Admittedly, I don't really know a lot about steroids or steroid use, so I'll defer to you but I did have to at least defend Jason and Mike because they're really nice people on top of being the among the longest hitters in the world.

No one can obviously know for sure. Im just pointing out the facts. People can make their own mind based on good info. I dont think using gear takes anything away from what anyone does in any sport.

 

1 hour ago, iacas said:

No, you can't, and it's ridiculous that you'd use "he looks like he did" to put a guy in the "did steroids" box.

You do not get to be so cavalier with reputations. It's ridiculous.

Please. There are physiological limits to size and ffmi. For some cases its obvious:

 

edit. For the ifbb i was referring to the hw competitors.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Alx