This whole built like a linebacker thing.

[JxQx]

Flexibility and explosiveness seem to be more important than just strength alone. Training correctly for the application is more important than just moving more weight.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 11/14/2017 at 3:21 PM, rehmwa said:

I know you are just exagerating to make the point.  Thought I'd give benefit of the doubt before more literal types jump on that.    Though I'd wonder if anyone that can't press 145 would be able to hit 300 at all.  There certainly has to be a minimum fitness/strength to hit that far.  I suspect even if you don't think they look like they can, they probably can lift that much and more - if they are long bombers.  Looks can be deceiving.

You insight on the topic is appreciated quite a bit since you're on the extreme end of the body type in this discussion (at least for golfers)

 

There are instructors here, quite a few good ones really.  Maybe they can highlight if one accommodates the mechanics to the body type, or accommodates the body type to the mechanics......

How much you can bench doesn't mean crap! It's what kind of clubhead speed you can generate!

Back in the day, pro golfers wouldn't go anywhere near a weight! Some of them wouldn't even swim. That was anathema! But, with advancements in weight training for specific activities, many modern golfers do weight train!

As I said before, these guys aren't bulky, but they are toned!

[colin007]

I want to know who's benching 145? As a warm-up? Lol....Errybody knows you start with 135....pssshh noobz 

[shortstop20]

I was at the 2015 PGA Championship, 2016 Ryder Cup and 2017 US Open. I have still yet to see a single PGA Tour golfer that is built like a NFL Linebacker or Safety. I'm gonna say they don't exist.

I know a guy that was 2nd string TE for an NFL team a half dozen years ago and he's still much, much bigger in the upper body than any golfer I have seen at these three tournaments. Ernie Els is one of the guys i might call "big" but he's really just tall and sort of stocky. He doesn't have a thinner build like Dustin Johnson or Bubba Watson. 

I'm almost 6' 2", but DJ and Bubba's height still stood out to me. DJ is very lean, very athletic build. Bubba is tall of course but he doesn't have the athletic build that DJ does. When it comes to Rory, his lack of size is what stood out to me. There is literally no part of Rory that is big(correct me Erica Stoll, LOL), I don't know what these people are talking about when they say he's big. We had Defensive Backs and Linebackers that were bigger than Rory on my high school football team, let alone any discussions about NFL. 

These guys are almost all fit, and some of them are tall, but none of them are "big" in a fitness sense. 

Edited November 19, 2017 by shortstop20

[Lihu]

21 hours ago, colin007 said:

I want to know who's benching 145? As a warm-up? Lol....Errybody knows you start with 135....pssshh noobz 

You could start off with just the bar.

I remember in college, when I was practicing Karate and Aikido when the football team came into the athletic center weight rooms to train. What started off as a nice and quite Aikido or Karate session ended up being interrupted "kick, thrust, punch, loud thud!".

The loud thuds were from 400 pound weights bars being thrown around like they were "just the bar" by the 300 pound linemen. The steel reinforced concrete floors actually bounced around like a drum head and transferred the vibrations from the weight room right under the dojo/aerobics/dance floors. The girls that came in to dance used to joke around with us about the bouncing sensations we felt.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Lihu

[sharpljp]

On 11/14/2017 at 2:21 PM, rehmwa said:

I know you are just exagerating to make the point.

Not exaggerating. He is a pro and is a string bean. He averages around 300 yards. He is tall as well.

On 11/14/2017 at 8:14 PM, Seals said:

Do you think Bubba could bench 145?

My bet would be that if he benched properly, like he would have to in a bench press competition, he would get somewhere between 2-5 reps. Remember guys.. long arms means the further you have to press to complete a full bench press rep. I would also bet that if he failed to meet his goal, he'd cuss out his weight lifting coach or blame it on his spotter.

On 11/14/2017 at 9:06 PM, Seals said:

difference of being "Country/Farm Strong (Think O-line men in NFL) and Defined Strong (Like NFL Linebacker)

Strength is strength. No difference. Commentators usually ascribe country strong to bigger, bulkier guys who you may not think/realize are that strong. There are big boys out there who may be 250-260 pounds and some kids may call them fat. These "fat" guys, if "country strong," would be really strong even thought they don't necessarily look it. NFL lineman are insane strong.. most people ignorant of football say they are just fat. 

 

On 11/14/2017 at 9:16 PM, Alx said:

Why do you think baseball players started using anabolics? To get bigger, stronger and thus faster.

Wrongggg. They used for different reasons. Roger Clemens (and all other pitchers who juiced) used steroids to heal quicker between starts (this is the reason why the majority, not all, of professional athletes juice.. they kill it in the weight room or on the field, recover insanely fast, build muscle, then do it again). Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds used steroids to get another 20-40 feet on his long fly balls which = more home runs. NO ONE used them, in baseball, to run faster. If they did, they did it by busting ass in the gym, recovering quickly, and then lifting in accordance to a speed program. 

Ricky Henderson stole 130 bags and hit 10 home runs in 1982. Then, while hanging out with Canseco and McGwire when they played together with Oakland, he took steroids. He went from being a toned string bean to pretty damn jacked. His stolen bases trended downward since he noticeably/obviously juiced. Then in 1990 at age 31, he stole 65 bags and hit 28 bombs. 

Juicing DID NOT make him faster. But he got much stronger and you could tell.

On 11/14/2017 at 9:16 PM, Alx said:

I wonder how fast these guys would be if someone told them to stop strength training since its slowing them down . Come on now...

Ok so why not get to bodybuilder type levels of strength? I mean what is stopping these guys from bulking up and getting stronger?... Your logic would be that they would hit it further but that is wrong. Sadlowski is a great talent. He can hit it a long way but there DOES come a point where if he bulks up too much, even if he does yoga 10x a day, the muscle mass will restrict his range of motion. 450 for 10 times is pretty strong. But it is not that strong. It is impressive for a PGA golfer in my book. 450x10 happens all the time in high school weight rooms. I did 475x3 as a 9th grader which was a record at my high school, but this puts it in perspective. Sadlowski is strong..... for a golfer.

On 11/14/2017 at 9:40 PM, iacas said:

we have fast twitch and slow twitch muscles in varying amounts, and they do different things.

Exactly^^ slow twitch muscles are big (chest, quads, back) and slow twitch muscles are small and fast. Bench pressing would help your slow twitch muscles. Power cleaning, a lift that Jason Zuback did a lot he said before he got into long driving, helps your fast twitch muscles. Fast twitch muscles help you become more explosive. Benching 800 pounds will absolutely 100% hurt you more than help you.. in golf. 

On 11/17/2017 at 12:16 PM, NM Golf said:

It's about fast twitch muscles and proper technique.

Yes!!

On 11/17/2017 at 12:16 PM, NM Golf said:

bigger chested, stockier physique, heavier players have ever so slightly different mechanics from our more slightly built peers.

I wish that there was more literature/tips out there for players of this sort but unfortunately I haven't seen much at all, if any. I think we are a unique type of golfer and I am fine with that but I love the game and still want to get better. It just amazes me that with all of the literature out there.. you really can't find much at all on this.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, sharpljp said:

Ricky Henderson stole 130 bags and hit 10 home runs in 1982. Then, while hanging out with Canseco and McGwire when they played together with Oakland, he took steroids. He went from being a toned string bean to pretty damn jacked. His stolen bases trended downward since he noticeably/obviously juiced. Then in 1990 at age 31, he stole 65 bags and hit 28 bombs. 

I have a problem with this…

You hit home runs by swinging the bat FAST. "Strength" is not speed. You can be "strong" but have a very low swing speed. I have taught body builders who can bench press my whole family, but I can outdrive by 30 yards despite carrying 30 extra pounds and not working out… ever.

Ricky Henderson may have stolen fewer bases (then again it's tougher to steal bases when you hit more homers and extra-base hits), but hitting more homers implies to me that he increased speed. Or he prioritized hitting homers over singles and then stealing.

At any rate:

• Home runs = speed, not "strength" in the more common sense.
• What Ricky did is a lot more multi-faceted than just "he took steroids."

[GolfLug]

As far as I know structural/stability matters more before A6 and fast twitch speed matters more after. Also you need soft muscles (bulk or no bulk) that elongate in arms and wrists for top speed past A6.

Edited November 20, 2017 by GolfLug

[sharpljp]

37 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

• Home runs = speed, not "strength" in the more common sense.

Steroids = more muscle mass = higher bat speed = higher batted ball speed = longer carry on fly balls = more home runs

[allenc]

57 minutes ago, sharpljp said:

My bet would be that if <Bubba Watson> benched properly, like he would have to in a bench press competition, he would get somewhere between 2-5 reps.

Wow.  What do guys in this thread have against Bubba?  I would bet any amount he could do 20-50 reps at that weight rather than 2-5 reps (ok, closer to 20 than 50).  If he literally doesn’t bench at all in his current workout routines he might need a couple weeks to get used to it but sheesh.  145 isn’t that much and he’s not a string bean, he’s a tall, well proportioned professional athlete.

Edited November 20, 2017 by allenc

[sharpljp]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

What Ricky did is a lot more multi-faceted than just "he took steroids

Agreed. I was just trying to explain in simple terms that adding muscle mass did not help him steal bags. But it's no secret that steroids helped people hit more home runs. Billy Hamilton, who plays on the Reds, is 6 ft. 160 pounds (probably less than 160). He is on pace to break Henderson's record by far... and he is one of the lightest guys in MLB if not the lightest.

13 minutes ago, allenc said:

 What do guys in this thread have against Bubba?  I would bet any amount he could do 20-50 reps

I love watching Bubba and his game is unbelievable. A true bench press, is pause at the bottom when you touch your chest, then fully extend and hold for a second before doing the next rep. But look I do not know Bubba's routine. He could be stronger who knows. But.. no way he gets 20 : ) Maybe a good test/idea for you would be to go do a proper bench press yourself. Benching and driving a golf ball are similar in the fact that people think they can do more. Some may think they bench 300 but when they participate in a competition they can only do 260.. properly. Kind of like when people say they can do 15 pull ups but they only go halfway down and don't get their chin to the bar. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by sharpljp

[allenc]

29 minutes ago, sharpljp said:

Agreed. I was just trying to explain in simple terms that adding muscle mass did not help him steal bags. But it's no secret that steroids helped people hit more home runs. Billy Hamilton, who plays on the Reds, is 6 ft. 160 pounds (probably less than 160). He is on pace to break Henderson's record by far... and he is one of the lightest guys in MLB if not the lightest.

I love watching Bubba and his game is unbelievable. A true bench press, is pause at the bottom when you touch your chest, then fully extend and hold for a second before doing the next rep. But look I do not know Bubba's routine. He could be stronger who knows. But.. no way he gets 20 : ) Maybe a good test/idea for you would be to go do a proper bench press yourself. Benching and driving a golf ball are similar in the fact that people think they can do more. Some may think they bench 300 but when they participate in a competition they can only do 260.. properly. Kind of like when people say they can do 15 pull ups but they only go halfway down and don't get their chin to the bar. 

Maybe I went overboard.  I was thinking back to when I was skinny in college and could do 15 reps of 135 after only a couple weeks of just beginning.  I might not have been doing them right though.

My main point is that I think Bubba is a pretty strong guy in general and could out muscle most who share his dimensions.

[Denny Bang Bang]

On 11/11/2017 at 3:17 PM, Seals said:

I don't buy the whole Day, Tiger or Rory are built like a linebacker. However, after going to numerous events, the one guy I will say was decently big was Jhonny Vegas. He might have been able to pass as a football player. No one else so far.

Any PGA pros that are actually big in size?

Umm, maybe a high school linebacker haha.  Those guys would get pancaked, every time.

I have no doubt “some” of the guys on tour are in general good athletes, and could have been really good at other sports as well.  But it’s ridiculous to compare them to a football player, extremely different sport.

[Alx]

12 hours ago, sharpljp said:

Wrongggg. They used for different reasons. Roger Clemens (and all other pitchers who juiced) used steroids to heal quicker between starts (this is the reason why the majority, not all, of professional athletes juice.. they kill it in the weight room or on the field, recover insanely fast, build muscle, then do it again). Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds used steroids to get another 20-40 feet on his long fly balls which = more home runs. NO ONE used them, in baseball, to run faster. If they did, they did it by busting ass in the gym, recovering quickly, and then lifting in accordance to a speed program. 

Ricky Henderson stole 130 bags and hit 10 home runs in 1982. Then, while hanging out with Canseco and McGwire when they played together with Oakland, he took steroids. He went from being a toned string bean to pretty damn jacked. His stolen bases trended downward since he noticeably/obviously juiced. Then in 1990 at age 31, he stole 65 bags and hit 28 bombs. 

Juicing DID NOT make him faster. But he got much stronger and you could tell.

When did I ever say I was talking about them using to RUN FASTER. Never. If the ball flies further guess what. The club was moving faster. THEY GOT FASTER.

Yes steroids have a multitude of benefits for an athlete but for the sake of this discussion I didint think it was relevant to list every one of them. For sure they benefitted from the faster recovery aswell as the increased performance.

 

12 hours ago, sharpljp said:

Ok so why not get to bodybuilder type levels of strength? I mean what is stopping these guys from bulking up and getting stronger?... Your logic would be that they would hit it further but that is wrong. Sadlowski is a great talent. He can hit it a long way but there DOES come a point where if he bulks up too much, even if he does yoga 10x a day, the muscle mass will restrict his range of motion. 450 for 10 times is pretty strong. But it is not that strong. It is impressive for a PGA golfer in my book. 450x10 happens all the time in high school weight rooms. I did 475x3 as a 9th grader which was a record at my high school, but this puts it in perspective. Sadlowski is strong..... for a golfer.

Dont tell me about my logic when its obvious you havent even read what Ive said. To quote myself:

"Also keep in mind were not talking about going from Bubba to Arnold here. Theres a healthy middle point for optimal performance. Tour players just do not look like athletes(on average)."

"Youre always going to find exceptions"

You are uninformed to put it nicely. 450*10 does not happen all the time outside of powerlifting gyms. Especially not for a guy weighing 165. His estimated max is around 600-640 lb. Please dont get started on the way estimations work. The american record is like 700 for the 165. Either way he is very strong both in relative and absolute terms and its a very impressive lift.

Ofcourse there comes a point where if he bulks up too much it wont help thats exactly what Ive said. At no point have is said tour players should look like bodybuilders. Infact to quote myself again:

"Strength = speed potential. Speed athletes are not inherently going for size its just a byproduct of getting stronger and faster. If it was we would have meat balls like IFBB pros breaking records at everything speed related. The whole bulking up too much is pretty much a myth for natural athletes anyways."

[sharpljp]

8 hours ago, Alx said:

When did I ever say I was talking about them using to RUN FASTER

Ok, no problem. Misunderstood you. All good. I know not everything about golf but baseball and football are things I have lived and experienced. My main point was that the majority of the time, in American baseball, they took steroids to recover. Not to get big like Bonds, McGwire, Rodriguez, and others in the steroid era who got crazy big in the weight room due to their hardcore workout regimens and ability to recover. Most guys, like Bartolo Colon (google him because I highly doubt Europeans know him that well), used PEDs to recover to be ready for the next game.. NOT get stronger and faster.. that is my point. Drink a cup hot tea lad.

8 hours ago, Alx said:

You are uninformed to put it nicely. 450*10 does not happen all the time outside of powerlifting gyms.

I'm an ex college athlete that grew up in a family of college athletes, weight lifting coaches, football players and father was in the MLB farm system. I also grew up in the USA and competed in numerous lifting competitions. When I said 450x10 happens all the time, I said that because I know that. I have seen that. But perhaps you are more "informed" on today's power lifting scene in America. 

Either way man, just carry on. Save your smarta** attitude for someone else. 

[satchmodog]

It's some horse crap I've always noticed about sports reporting. I don't know if it's deliberate deception, trying to make athletes seem like larger than life supermen or trying to make them seem like genetically superior beings. But I can guarantee that every height and weight entrance in media guides and in reference sites exaggerates the size of these people across the board.

I met Kris Bryant, who is listed as 6'5 everywhere. Well, I'm 6'2 and he's my height. I golfed with Steve McMichael who was probably listed at 6'1 and 280. He was probably 5'10 and maybe 280.

Again, seeing the rest of the Cubs at the convention, there was one guy taller than me. Half the infielders who were listed over 5'10 were nowhere near that. Growing up near Galas Hall I ran into Bears all the time. Very few guys were that tall. The only guy I recall truly towering over me was Julius Peppers. 

At the few PGA events I've been to, I can say most golfers are 5'10-6'2 and none weigh more than 200 pounds. Golf is a game that relies on flexibility. The more musclebound you get, I'd say you'd affect your swing adversely.

[Alx]

3 hours ago, sharpljp said:

Ok, no problem. Misunderstood you. All good. I know not everything about golf but baseball and football are things I have lived and experienced. My main point was that the majority of the time, in American baseball, they took steroids to recover. Not to get big like Bonds, McGwire, Rodriguez, and others in the steroid era who got crazy big in the weight room due to their hardcore workout regimens and ability to recover. Most guys, like Bartolo Colon (google him because I highly doubt Europeans know him that well), used PEDs to recover to be ready for the next game.. NOT get stronger and faster.. that is my point. Drink a cup hot tea lad.

Steroids will make you bigger even without actually doing anything. With a workout regime and you will blow past any natural.

They dont just help with recovery so you can do more work. They allow you to do way less to achieve the same thing. 

Its naive to belive these guys were using "just to recover". Come on now. McGwires dealer had a thing to say about it http://m.mlb.com/news/article/7955290

 

3 hours ago, sharpljp said:

I'm an ex college athlete that grew up in a family of college athletes, weight lifting coaches, football players and father was in the MLB farm system. I also grew up in the USA and competed in numerous lifting competitions. When I said 450x10 happens all the time, I said that because I know that. I have seen that. But perhaps you are more "informed" on today's power lifting scene in America. 

Either way man, just carry on. Save your smarta** attitude for someone els

Then you should know that 450*10 at 170 bw does not happen all the time. If Im a smartass for calling out your bs then sure. What ever.

[colin007]

450*10 doesn't happen "all the time" in HS gyms. It doesn't happen all the time in adult gyms. That's 4 plates on each side plus a 25 on each side. Sure, there's guys that can lift it, but they're not doing more than 5 reps typically.