Golf Ball Aerodynamics: < 0.002" Makes a Huge Difference

[ghalfaire]

19 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't think it's a biased video. I think all the major brands have similar tolerances on their balls. I think it's a warning regarding recycled balls.

You can tour the Titleist ball plant now. @jamo and @boogielicious you should do that actually! Set it up!

I don't think it is biased either in the sense that what is shown isn't real. I believe the results of the demonstration are real and repeatable.  I was saying that finding a ball that has all the dimples on one hemisphere being different than the opposite hemisphere in a specific way is an unlikely event.  I don't purchase refurbished balls as I would agree the performance is probably degraded by the refurbishment process. 

I worked a development engineer for long time in industry and my experience is when Marketing pays for a test it is with the intent to sell more of the company's product.  That doesn't mean the test were not honest in that given the test scenario the results were real.  But the scenario was sometimes carefully selected.  

For whatever it's worth I believe it would be difficult to find a better all around performing ball than the Pro V 1.  If I could play golf as well as you do I might fork over the $50/doz myself instead of looking in the rough and ponds on courses I play for them.  Of course, if I could play as well as you do Titleist might offer them complimentary.  

[Shindig]

22 hours ago, iacas said:

It really does make you wonder about "refurbished" balls.

It does.  Also makes me wonder about how often I should replace a ball I'm using, even if it was new to begin.  I replaced a ball at the turn last round after having used that same ball for 45 holes.  

[jamo]

20 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't think it's a biased video. I think all the major brands have similar tolerances on their balls. I think it's a warning regarding recycled balls.

You can tour the Titleist ball plant now. @jamo and @boogielicious you should do that actually! Set it up!

I would definitely be down. Looks like the next time they have consistent openings is January. The knee should be good enough by then, right @boogielicious?

[iacas]

48 minutes ago, ghalfaire said:

I don't think it is biased either in the sense that what is shown isn't real. I believe the results of the demonstration are real and repeatable.  I was saying that finding a ball that has all the dimples on one hemisphere being different than the opposite hemisphere in a specific way is an unlikely event.

Well, of course. But I think as I said above every major ball manufacturer - even the others like Vice or Snell - have no problems at all with this. Even if all of their dimples are not to within 0.002", they're likely distributed unevenly, not half and half. (The paint is basically just misted onto the golf balls at most plants I've seen, as they spin on those little three-pronged pedestals.)

So yeah, I just meant it likely wasn't a biased video in the sense of "Titleist does this, no others do." I think it was biased against refurbished balls, and was otherwise just an educational, fun, informative video.

The ball looked normal to Rafa. He couldn't even tell. He didn't look THAT closely, but I don't know if he'd notice 0.002" anyway.

[RussUK]

I think retailers should watch the video then they wouldnt be giving false advertisment like the following:

Professional testing shows no performance loss between new, recycled and refinished? Tell that to Rafa.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, RussUK said:

I think retailers should watch the video then they wouldnt be giving false advertisment like the following:

Professional testing shows no performance loss between new, recycled and refinished? Tell that to Rafa.

There's probably a difference between recycled and refurbished. When I hear a recycled ball I think found on a course and cleaned. Refurbished balls to me are repainted.

I think the video demonstrates that the painting process is critical and that kind of justifies the expense that Titleist goes through to insure consistent product.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, RussUK said:

Professional testing shows no performance loss between new, recycled and refinished? Tell that to Rafa.

Well, if they refinish it really well, they won't have half a ball with 0.002" more paint.

[JonMA1]

2 hours ago, RussUK said:

Professional testing shows no performance loss between new, recycled and refinished? Tell that to Rafa.

It wouldn't be that hard for Titleist to test this properly. To some, a result of a few more yards of inconsistency would be enough to spend the extra money. 

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

I think the video demonstrates that the painting process is critical and that kind of justifies the expense that Titleist goes through to insure consistent product.

Does anyone really think the process they use to refinish golf balls is going to be .002" off? That's a very large deviation by most standards. I'm not sure what the process involves but I have to believe there are tolerances in place and the equipment used has a bit more control than that.

Sorry, Erik beat me to it.

 

 

[No Mulligans]

Interesting video, but not anything I've experienced using recycled or refurbished balls.  (I only buy new balls now though) 

Even range balls have a consistent ball flight for me... unless they're really worn down, those ones have a lot shorter ball flight and sometime have weird two way curves. 

From that experience, I think you can play the same ball for a long time without material changes in ball flight. I've never been able to play the same ball so much that it looked worn down like some of the bad range balls I've seen. I lose them way sooner than that. 

Edited November 23, 2017 by No Mulligans

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

Even range balls have a consistent ball flight for me... unless they're really worn down, those ones have a lot shorter ball flight and sometime have weird two way curves. 

Oh, I've definitely found range balls that draw, then slice, or vice versa. It's not all that common, but I've seen it enough times to know it wasn't just the wind or something like that.

And I still have some dimple-less golf balls that I bust out from time to time. They're funny to hit.

Rafa hitting it about 100 yards is about right. I had to tee it up on a pencil and hit up a ton to try to get as close to 45° (probably got to 30 or so) with a driver to hit the front of the green on a 140-yard par three (with my driver) once.

[nevets88]

On 11/22/2017 at 1:48 PM, iacas said:

I don't think it's a biased video. I think all the major brands have similar tolerances on their balls. I think it's a warning regarding recycled balls.

You can tour the Titleist ball plant now. @jamo and @boogielicious you should do that actually! Set it up!

Holy process. Sometimes I get shivers watching Titleist because competence porn.

 

[billchao]

7 hours ago, jamo said:

I would definitely be down. Looks like the next time they have consistent openings is January. The knee should be good enough by then, right @boogielicious?

I was going to say let me know if/when you guys plan on going, but I just looked them up and it's four hours away. That's one hell of a day trip.

[colin007]

4 hours ago, nevets88 said:

Holy process. Sometimes I get shivers watching Titleist because competence porn.

 

I guess everyone's gotta have a "thing", don't they....Lol

[boogielicious]

21 hours ago, jamo said:

I would definitely be down. Looks like the next time they have consistent openings is January. The knee should be good enough by then, right @boogielicious?

I can't even swing a club until January per my Dr. and PT. 

[MarvChamp]

9 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

I can't even swing a club until January per my Dr. and PT. 

I'm in the same boat. I truly, truly understand!  Heal soon! Best regards, -Marv

[boogielicious]

24 minutes ago, MarvChamp said:

I'm in the same boat. I truly, truly understand!  Heal soon! Best regards, -Marv

You too!

[MiuraMan]

Here is an interesting video on the impact dimple depth has on golf ball flight - a case for not using refurbished balls.

 

[pei4518]

The thing to realize is that any refinishing process other than washing and reselling changes the surface of the ball therefor changing the aerodynamics as built into the ball from the manufacturer.  Any aftermarket painting of the ball not only changes the depth of the paint in the dimples, but changes the diameter and the critical edge angle of the dimple.  These small changes as small as .0005" ( yes, that little) greatly affect the flight pattern of the ball.  Even Titleist is unable to repaint a ball in manufacturing and destroys any product that may have been painted incorrectly with uneven or has too little or too much paint on them.  Also, It is often common to have ball refinishing companies take other golf balls and re-stamp them as Titleist ProV.  Some are very good at it and can be very hard to distinguish.  They do this because they can sell a refinished ProV for more than a any other ball. This is why Titleist took several refinishing companies to court several years ago.  Bottom line, if the surface has been changed at all, it will not fly as manufactured.  Also, numerous golf balls, even Titleist balls, are manufactured with dimples of varying depth, diameter and dimple edge angle. For example, the ProV has several different dimple diameter and depths on it.  It is the art of laying out the various dimples in a symmetrical pattern that give the ball the intended flight path in various wind conditions regardless of how the ball is oriented when hit.   The technology in making the raw tooling for the molding and/or casting process along with state-of-the-art process control, is what defines the finished product quality consistency.