This drill really helped me stop going Over The Top (OTT)..

[sharpljp]

After years of baseball, I have been battling (some days more than others) going OTT. I want to kill the ball, sometimes, and the first thing i want to do is drive my right shoulder to the target. I've dealt with this for a while. But then I saw this drill on YouTube by a guy named Clay Ballard.

For anyone who needs help with finding a remedy for going OTT.. try this video..

 

The drill of putting the club to my right side, then swinging straight out in front of me with a finish over my left shoulder, has become part of my pre-shot routine. It allows me to feel the inside-out path better and also helps me stay on a back foot just a little bit longer. I first watched this video a couple weeks ago and now I am drawing the ball nearly every time (I have pushed it right but it is a solid strike when I do). My contact even seems to be better. But now my new problem is drawing it too much. I have not recorded my swing on video but I intend to. I know I am not coming OTT because the ball starts straight down the middle, and then begins its turn. My driver is now drawing about 20-30 yards.

This is where I would like some feedback from the golf minds here in the SandTrap. Should I just play the draw? My 3 wood does the same thing and my mid irons (5-8) draw probably 10-15 yards. This doesn't bother me thatttt much but.. when I'm playing a Pete Dye course and I have to draw the ball over water a bunch of times.. it can be nerve-racking. Especially when I know that sometimes I can push it if I don't release the club right. Is there anything negative about this drill that could be detrimental?

Also, Clay Ballard.. Where is this guy out of? I seem to understand him a little better I guess than others and am interested in hearing more from him.

[iacas]

I don't agree with "more weight on your right side."

And his advice is basically "swing out." Why not actually have a hula hoop instead of just talking about a hula hoop?

Sorry, I view videos differently than students/golfers.

Glad it worked for you. Film yourself and see what actually changed… You might find that your right elbow gets further behind you, or you swing too flat, or some other things that can lead to problems down the road.

[sharpljp]

@iacas I have not been a member here long but have noticed that you seem to be knowledgeable so thank you for the feedback. 

I'm absolutely going to film it and may do it tonight if possible. 

I think that the "more weight on my right side" helped for me because I used to lunge and sort of try to attack the ball from the top. 

I think that my backswing may be too flat, which can easily lead to going OTT due to momentum correct? 

@iacas I certainly don't want to bug you but could you offer any advice or articles on help with a super flat backswing?

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, sharpljp said:

I think that my backswing may be too flat, which can easily lead to going OTT due to momentum correct? 

@iacas I certainly don't want to bug you but could you offer any advice or articles on help with a super flat backswing?

I think this has been addressed several times in your Member Swing topic. @mvmac is one of the top two people you'd want to listen to here on the site about your golf swing.

He wrote a few posts earlier than that one, too.

[mvmac]

Oy, I don't like that video. All it's getting you to do is swing way out to the right, which isn't going to fix anything long term. 

Most people go OTT because of what they are doing well before the downswing occurs. They'll typically have a palmy grip, aim way left, not get enough turn, slide their hips back, lift the arms to complete some sort of backswing. The OTT is an attempt to hit the ball solid.

Can you imagine what someone who loads the club or arms too low on the backswing would look like if they tried this? They'd whiff! 

5 hours ago, sharpljp said:

and the first thing i want to do is drive my right shoulder to the target.

It's ok for the right shoulder to work towards the target, but it also has to work down enough.

Check out Sergio's right shoulder at impact, he's not holding it back and shallowing out his shoulders to swing out. It's pretty close to being "under" his chin with the torso rotating hard.

 

[Marty2019]

But along the lines of "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."  "Then don't do that." 

Can a person (sometimes) deal with an issue by treating the issue directly? 

"My swing is outside-in." 

"So don't swing outside-in.  Practice swinging inside-out." 

I have been dealing with an over the top issue for years, especially with my irons, and I finally just decided to forget everything else and just swing towards the target.  I am focusing more on my finish, and what happens after I hit the ball.  I'm just trying to make a divot that goes towards the target.  I think it's helped me a lot, and the other parts of my swing seem to be falling into sync behind it. 

I know instructors want to fix all the other parts of the swing, and that's good, but sometimes, the student is helped by taking a more direct approach. 

Humbly submitted.  I welcome your thoughts.

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Marty2019

[Sandhills Golfer]

16 hours ago, mvmac said:

Most people go OTT because of what they are doing well before the downswing occurs. They'll typically have a palmy grip, aim way left, not get enough turn, slide their hips back, lift the arms to complete some sort of backswing. The OTT is an attempt to hit the ball solid.

Mvmac,

This sums up my swing. Quick question. In your opinion, If you get the back swing right, can you just unwind or is a hip bump or swing from the ground up essential to a solid strike.

 

Thx, SG

 

[GST1974]

I had this problem when I first started before getting lessons with my first golf pro.  I tried to kill the ball with poor technique all around.  I also got it after foolishly getting lessons with a second golf pro that taught me different things than what my first golf pro taught me and confused the heck out of me.

Basically I think going OTT has to do with two things: 1)too upright of a stance which forces an inside-out path and the club gliding over the top of the ball.  2)a strong grip that encourages your arms and hands to take the club way inside and force a short and steep inside out swing.

Neutral grip with club pointing at the middle of your triangle towards your nose.  Bend at the hips A LOT with a straight back and allow the club to rest flat on its sole.  Obviously you have to line up at the right distance from the ball so you get your posture not too upright or too bent over.  From that point on, just turn your torso against your legs at the hip joint and feel a solid spring like action developing with your body.  The club should follow the path of the lie angle of the club and its over-all length in relation to your posture.  Each club will have a different swing path, shorter clubs will have a steeper angle of attack, and longer clubs will have a shallower angle of attack.  Then start the forward swing by your feet uncocking the spring tension and allow the rest of the body to follow through.  Or by unloading from the hips.  But keep your arms and hands as quiet as possible. The body does all the work, try not to isolate hands, arms and shoulders during your swing.   Just allow them to be part of the overall swing.

And its important to stay over the ball rather than allow your center of gravity to slide right or left of the impact zone.

This is what works for me.  If it confuses you, then just ignore it.

Edited November 30, 2017 by GST1974
changed shallow for short

[sharpljp]

16 hours ago, mvmac said:

They'll typically have a palmy grip, aim way left, not get enough turn, slide their hips back, lift the arms to complete some sort of backswing.

Mac that is interesting. A local pro tells me that I "sway" my hips back. It does not feel like I do but i definitely believe him. Even when I try not to (this can be difficult to try in the middle of a round).. I still do it. Something tells me that if I corrected my turn/sway motion, it would do more good than anything. My upper body is a little more tight than the average so I think that it makes sense that I would resort to swaying rather than turning. He tells me every time I golf with him, "Stop swaying. You need to turn. Just turn. Don't sway." But usually it is in the middle of the round and I try it a few times and give up on it. So @mvmac I think that is the key for me but it's tough for me to feel it and like it. He's looked at my grip and has never mentioned me aiming left. 

I can tell by watching the Sergio video that his turn is probably twice as much as mine. I would say, realistically, my left shoulder gets to my left ear and most of the time probably doesn't get that far. At the top of Sergio's back swing, his chest is facing opposite the target and his left shoulder is underneath his chin.

I really wish I could hone this turn not sway thing. My short game saves me 24/7 and golf is so much fun for me when I'm hitting GIR. Do you have a favorite drill or article that you could share pertaining to golfers with a tendency for swaying instead of turning?

[Yff Theos]

There was a good thread on the other forum where the conclusion (very sane one, imo) was that there is no problem at all to be OTT in the type of Bobby Jones or Sam Snead or Craig Parry provided the player delivers the club still from the inside.

[mvmac]

8 hours ago, Sandhills Golfe said:

Mvmac,

This sums up my swing. Quick question. In your opinion, If you get the back swing right, can you just unwind or is a hip bump or swing from the ground up essential to a solid strike.

Yes there is a shift forward (left) as you rotate, it's due to the left hip staying lower than the right to about A5 and the pressure loading or "falling" into the lead leg.

Couple good examples

Unfortunately a good backswing doesn't make the downswing "automatic" but it certainly helps.

7 hours ago, sharpljp said:

Do you have a favorite drill or article that you could share pertaining to golfers with a tendency for swaying instead of turning?

 

7 hours ago, Yff Theos said:

no problem at all to be OTT in the type of Bobby Jones or Sam Snead or Craig Parry provided the player delivers the club still from the inside.

Right the hand path may be OTT but the shaft still shallows and the sweetspot doesn't work across the ball. Take it to the top of your backswing, work the hands out a bit with a little pivot....what is the shaft doing? Most likely the clubhead is "falling" behind you.

[Yff Theos]

4 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Right the hand path may be OTT but the shaft still shallows and the sweetspot doesn't work across the ball. Take it to the top of your backswing, work the hands out a bit with a little pivot....what is the shaft doing? Most likely the clubhead is "falling" behind you.

Right on. These clips are worth looking at:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billchao]

11 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

Can a person (sometimes) deal with an issue by treating the issue directly? 

It depends. There's a wrong way to swing inside-out, you know.

[iacas]

13 hours ago, Marty2019 said:

Can a person (sometimes) deal with an issue by treating the issue directly?

Sometimes.

But most often, they'll go about it in a way that leads to other problems.

[sharpljp]

@iacas I read that entire thread! Awesome stuff!! Won't get that anywhere else man and I appreciate it. I think my best thing is to practice inside at home. I liked the drill of putting a basketball between my left hip and the wall, then making my backswing. Anything wrong with that drill? Or is there a better one for indoor/living room practice? 

Thanks again

[mvmac]

33 minutes ago, sharpljp said:

@iacas I read that entire thread! Awesome stuff!! Won't get that anywhere else man and I appreciate it. I think my best thing is to practice inside at home. I liked the drill of putting a basketball between my left hip and the wall, then making my backswing. Anything wrong with that drill? Or is there a better one for indoor/living room practice? 

Thanks again

Not a fan of the basketball idea. Might make you want to "push" into the ball to keep it on the wall. The hips basically turn centered, you don't want to start a pattern of the hips "sliding" forward on the backswing with the left hip too high.

Do the wall drill and/or have a chair against your right hip. Make a backswing where the hip slides along (not into) the chair for the takeaway and then comes off it as you keep turning back. You'll want to create a ball or two gap away from the chair by the end of the backswing.

[sharpljp]

On 12/1/2017 at 11:21 AM, mvmac said:

Do the wall drill

I read the lesson and did the wall drill. Could feel a major difference. Had to play 9 afterwards and I wasn't very consistent but that OK considering that this is the first time getting the feel of a correct, non-swaying turn. The best way to explain it was I felt like I had "easy power." Slowing my swing down actually made me hit it further and my drives were straighter. My consistent miss, although I still hitting it with good distance, was blocking it right which before correcting my swaying was not an issue. Ordered a tripod and plan on updating "my swing." It feels different but I can tell that RPB (right pocket back) is the way to go.

[cutchemist42]

I have heard that in terms of the "stick" sports, that lots of baseball players naturally get OTT problems when they take up golf, and more often than hockey players. Then again, lots of people up here jokingly call golf "summer hockey"