Are Rangefinders contributing to slow play?

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, rehmwa said:

I'm ok with the options on the poll.  though I'd just answer "NO" instead of "no, but...."

 

I didn't read the other responses before answering, but to me the correct answer was @David in FL's. It speeds up play when used properly.

[DaveP043]

I answered "no, unless used wrong".  In the olden days, I'd walk past the yardage marker and start counting my paces until I got to my ball.  I knew immediately how far I was from the center of the green, or maybe from the front and back if the course had fancy markers showing those numbers.  So compared to that, taking the additional step of aiming my laser could be construed as slowing things down slightly.  However, compared to driving a cart to your ball, then looking for a marker, pacing to it and back, getting a yardage from a laser is significantly faster.  

Its in the use of the rangefinder data that I could see an increase in slow play.  Lasers give you a yardage to the flag.  Sometimes, perhaps even most of the time, the better yardage to use for planning is a middle of the green yardage.  Use of the exact yardage, as opposed to center of the green yardage, might actually increase the percentages of a player missing a green.  Put it in shot zone terms, imagine your shot zone centered on a point 4 paces from the edge of the green, and compare with the same shot zone centered in the center of the green.  Obviously, more missed greens would cause somewhat slower play.  I don't blame this potential slow-down on the use of the rangefinder, but on the individual players use of the information.

[Fourputt]

I'm with the majority - when used properly, lasers and GPS (both are rangefinders) allow players to get the necessary information faster than searching for a sprinkler and then pacing from there.  The biggest issue I've noticed are when the player doesn't even pick up his unit to start the process until it's his turn to play.  The fault usually lies with the user.

I've noticed that some of the phone apps seem to be more cumbersome to use than others.  That issue, along with turning the phone off and on to make the battery last for 18 holes, as well as trying to find the desired page or hole, make phone GPS apps one of the least desirable options, in my opinion.

I've used both laser and GPS, and I feel that a golf dedicated GPS is still the faster one to use in most cases (if the user is doing it right - this qualification applies to just about everything one does on the golf course).  Mine is a hand held Garmin Approach G6 that allows me to measure to any point on a hole, and I generally use it while someone else is playing his shot.  That way it literally adds no time at all to a round. 

Even when I have to wait because of our relative ball positions, a glance for a center distance is all it takes when I get to my ball (I don't even feel the need to stand over my ball to get a reading - if I'm within 2 or 3 yards of the ball, that's good enough).  I may need to plan a layup, and in that case I can still tap the screen to place my target before I get to the ball, then just read the distance to target as I approach the ball.  Again, no time lost. 

A laser may take a few seconds longer in some circumstances, but it still isn't an issue when the player uses it right.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Fourputt

[billchao]

4 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

Its in the use of the rangefinder data that I could see an increase in slow play.  Lasers give you a yardage to the flag.  Sometimes, perhaps even most of the time, the better yardage to use for planning is a middle of the green yardage.  Use of the exact yardage, as opposed to center of the green yardage, might actually increase the percentages of a player missing a green.  Put it in shot zone terms, imagine your shot zone centered on a point 4 paces from the edge of the green, and compare with the same shot zone centered in the center of the green.  Obviously, more missed greens would cause somewhat slower play.  I don't blame this potential slow-down on the use of the rangefinder, but on the individual players use of the information.

Lack of information can slow play, too. If you don't have a rangefinder and the course doesn't have accurate markers, or markers close enough to be useful (some course I've played only have a 150 marker and none on sprinkler heads), you won't have the correct yardage. Plus, a lot of people misjudge how the angle they're standing at in relation to the green and the marker itself can affect the distance calculation.

Armed with incorrect yardage, you can hit a perfect shot and miss the green because you pulled the wrong club.

[Missouri Swede]

3 hours ago, RandallT said:

Oops! Did I override?? Oh well you can fix my mess if I goofed it up!  Gotta cook breakfast

 

2 hours ago, RandallT said:

Plus I was in a hurry! 

Sounds like you were more interested in pace-of-breakfast! 

20 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

 In the olden days, I'd walk past the yardage marker and start counting my paces until I got to my ball.  I knew immediately how far I was from the center of the green, or maybe from the front and back if the course had fancy markers showing those numbers.

... if those markers are correct.  At least one marker at a local course is off by several yards (6-7 or so). 

[Hacker James]

pace of play with or without a RF is not an issue for me. What is an issue, is those using a RF to find distance without ever even coming close does bug me a little. For better players who can judge their shots by feet instead of yards I can definitely see the benefit. For others, a simple GPS Watch or smart phone would suffice.  I used to be somewhat accurate by just looking distances from white or blue yardage markers, but now with advancing age, my judgement is impaired.

[Patch]

I voted yes if used wrong. Thing is any one who plays alot of golf really does not need one. Golfers who play alot,  just know what they need, distance wise. Especially amateurs who's game is not dialed in to precise swing distances. 

Myself, I carry both a gps, and a lazer range finder. I don't hardly ever use them. They were gifts. If I use them at all, it might be for a carry measurement.

I use them more when practicing more than on the course when playing for a score. They work really well when checking carry distances. 

I look at a my next shot and it tells me to pull this, or that club. I don't know what the actual yardage is, but it's a 6i, or something. That said, since I am in that group of golfers who think they hit the ball farther than they actually do, when I see a 6i shot, I pull a 5i......

No, imho the biggest problem causing slow play will always be all golfers not playing the same speed. Some are just naturally slower, or faster than others. Call it genetics, personal timing, metabolism, or what ever. 

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, Patch said:

Thing is any one who plays alot of golf really does not need one. Golfers who play alot,  just know what they need, distance wise.

Maybe on par 3's, but on any other hole golfers are finding the nearest yardage marker and eyeing the distance. 

The golf course can play with your sense of distance. Things like slight elevation changes and how big the green is can influence how a golfer perceives distance. Also, where and how the bunkers look compared to the green can influence it as well. 

A golfer might get good majority of the time, but it would benefit them greatly to have some sort of GPS or laser. 

---

I voted No. I think they would speed up play. Knowing a good yardage will help chose the right club. If they hit more greens and make better shots then that speeds up play. 

[GolfLug]

My immediate first thought was no, they actually speed up play most of the time. Just like anybody else, I shoot pins, trees, bunkers quickly  with my LRF and IMO I make decisions faster than I would otherwise. 

I voted no and honestly unless there is an unusual situation or conflicting info from a ground marker I am hard pressed to think of ways to use it that would slow down play.

[Golfingdad]

Last two rounds I’ve played I didn’t have mine because the battery died and I certainly didn’t play faster.  Instead of just walking up to my ball and shooting the number and pulling a club, now I have to find the 150 marker or a sprinkler head and pace it off ... or just guess.  I’m decent at estimating but not great so I’m certainly going to miss a few if I did that.

Rangefinders MOST DEFINITELY do not slow down play.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Golfingdad

[David in FL]

The other thing people forget as they question the 10 seconds or so that it takes to get precise yardage information with a laser, is the consequence of not having that information.  Even a relatively small misjudgment can result in extra strokes, which take significantly more time than what would have been spent getting the accurate info in the first place.

 

[Fourputt]

36 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

My immediate first thought was no, they actually speed up play most of the time. Just like anybody else, I shoot pins, trees, bunkers quickly  with my LRF and IMO I make decisions faster than I would otherwise. 

I voted no and honestly unless there is an unusual situation or conflicting info from a ground marker I am hard pressed to think of ways to use it that would slow down play.

I can easily think of a way.  I've played with a guy who had to not only shoot the flagstick, but every hump and bunker lip he could get a fix on.  He ended up with information overload, which subsequently slowed down the rest of his decision making process.  He was a significantly slower player after getting the laser than he was when he just used the course markings.  He was a mid handicap (13-15), so his game wasn't good enough to account of all of the issues he created with his toy.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Fourputt

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

I can easily think of a way.  I've played with a guy who had to not only shoot the flagstick, but every hump and bunker lip he could get a fix on.  He ended up with information overload, which subsequently slowed down the rest of his decision making process.  He was a significantly slower player after getting the laser than he was when he just used the course markings.  He was a mid handicap (13-15), so his game wasn't good enough to account of all of the issues he created with his toy.

Yeah if he specifically started gathering more information than before he had his toy then I guess that makes sense.

Edited December 2, 2017 by GolfLug

[chilepepper]

Slow people play golf slowly. They could have a gps on their wrist announce the distance  to the foot and they would still play slow

[sjduffers]

I can get a yardage with my rangefinder in 2s maximum: one to grab the device and another one to aim at the target and shoot the distance. There is a proper technique needed to make that happen. Hold the instrument like you would a camera (SLR or DSLR), by making a stable 3-point platform: one point is the forehead (or the eye socket of the eye in use, depending on the device) and the other 2 are the elbows tucked into your sides or abdomen depending on your shape and what is confortable. With this stable platform, it is easy to aim/shoot at the target just as it is easy to take crisp (non-blurry) pictures.

Too many times, I see rangefinder novices trying to one-hand the device and having a real hard time. No wonder: they are only using maybe one of the three anchor points, if that and will have a hard time get a fix for a target at anything longer than 50-80 yards...

Properly used, a rangefinder is more precise than anything else and can be faster too (try getting a GPS yardage from a phone!), and is definitely faster than walking the distances to the sprinkler heads.

6 hours ago, David in FL said:

The other thing people forget as they question the 10 seconds or so that it takes to get precise yardage information with a laser, is the consequence of not having that information.  Even a relatively small misjudgment can result in extra strokes, which take significantly more time than what would have been spent getting the accurate info in the first place.

 

True dat.  But like I said, it should take nowhere near 10 seconds to get information with a laser, either.

Another data point: a buddy of mine has one of them fancy talking voices clipped onto your hat GPS. More than half the time, he asks me to give him a yardage (with my rangefinder). Why?  Because the thing isn't charged up, hasn't figured out the course or the hole we are on... or do I dare say, because he doesn't really trust it? 

I keep telling him that he needs a rangefinder and he claps back that as long as I am playing with him, he does not, as mine is doing just fine.  I tell him that one of these days, I will give a wrong yardage... by accident you know (like lasering a tree behind the flag). 

[David in FL]

4 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

 

True dat.  But like I said, it should take nowhere near 10 seconds to get information with a laser, either.

That's exactly what I was talking about...

[dbuck]

Like everyone else so far, I voted the no option. 

I think they  help the pace of play tremendously. No looking for the nearest marker and stepping off, no fiddling with gps. I don't own one, so I expect a slight learning curve, but after that, look and go.

[rehmwa]

On 02/12/2017 at 7:04 PM, chilepepper said:

Slow people play golf slowly. They could have a gps on their wrist announce the distance  to the foot and they would still play slow

THIS

people try to come up with little nit picks on every aspect of the game and be outraged or comment and work those or try to micro manage everyone on those items instead of just working with slow individuals.  but the real problem is slow golfers and the reasons are varied enough that this item or the next item is just a another 'my peeves' subject.

but, we can be aware of all these categories, but it seems the list just grows to just about everything everyone (else) does....

Edited December 4, 2017 by rehmwa