Crypto Currency (Bitcoin, Etc.)

[paperclip]

On 2/2/2018 at 8:17 AM, klineka said:

What makes you think that? 

What is it based on?  There is nothing underlying it except sentiment.

[klineka]

10 hours ago, paperclip said:

What is it based on?  There is nothing underlying it except sentiment.

What is anything of value based on? The price that someone is willing to buy and sell it for.

Gold is just an element. There are rarer elements than gold and silver yet someone decided they had value. 

[iacas]

Nathaniel Popper, New York Times:

In the beach resort of Phuket, Thailand, last month, the assailants pushed their victim, a young Russian man, into his apartment and kept him there, blindfolded, until he logged onto his computer and transferred about $100,000 worth of Bitcoin to an online wallet they controlled.

And:

A few weeks before that, the head of a Bitcoin exchange in Ukraine was taken hostage and only released after the company paid a ransom of $1 million in Bitcoin.

And:

In New York City, a man was held captive by a friend until he transferred over $1.8 million worth of Ether, a virtual currency second in value only to Bitcoin.

This has become a thing. Why? Because once the Bitcoins have been transferred, there’s no way to prove ownership, no way to get the Bitcoin back. When the victims call the police, the police shrug their shoulders. There’s simply nothing they can do.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2018/02/20/bitcoin-thieves-threaten-real-life-violence/ and https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/technology/virtual-currency-extortion.html

[Lihu]

On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 7:15 AM, klineka said:

What is anything of value based on? The price that someone is willing to buy and sell it for.

Gold is just an element. There are rarer elements than gold and silver yet someone decided they had value. 

Gold and silver are used in electronics and many other industries. It also has physical value. Rhodium and Platimum are not much more expensive than gold. Gold and silver are also more plentiful so more people have access to it.

If I had to guess, things like Bitcoin has or will be getting some kind of physical backing to retain their values. The main thing is all transactions can be done without any IRS or any other tax entity getting any record of it.

It became really big during the most heavily taxed era the last 8 years in the USA.

 

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Nathaniel Popper, New York Times:

In the beach resort of Phuket, Thailand, last month, the assailants pushed their victim, a young Russian man, into his apartment and kept him there, blindfolded, until he logged onto his computer and transferred about $100,000 worth of Bitcoin to an online wallet they controlled.

And:

A few weeks before that, the head of a Bitcoin exchange in Ukraine was taken hostage and only released after the company paid a ransom of $1 million in Bitcoin.

And:

In New York City, a man was held captive by a friend until he transferred over $1.8 million worth of Ether, a virtual currency second in value only to Bitcoin.

This has become a thing. Why? Because once the Bitcoins have been transferred, there’s no way to prove ownership, no way to get the Bitcoin back. When the victims call the police, the police shrug their shoulders. There’s simply nothing they can do.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2018/02/20/bitcoin-thieves-threaten-real-life-violence/ and https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/technology/virtual-currency-extortion.html

Ouch.

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, Lihu said:

It became really big during the most heavily taxed era the last 8 years in the USA.

Look at the top marginal tax rate from 1940 thru 1960.  

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

This has become a thing. Why? Because once the Bitcoins have been transferred, there’s no way to prove ownership, no way to get the Bitcoin back. When the victims call the police, the police shrug their shoulders. There’s simply nothing they can do.

http://www.loopinsight.com/2018/02/20/bitcoin-thieves-threaten-real-life-violence/ and https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/technology/virtual-currency-extortion.html

YIKES!!!!

[klineka]

9 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Gold and silver are used in electronics and many other industries. It also has physical value. Rhodium and Platimum are not much more expensive than gold. Gold and silver are also more plentiful so more people have access to it.

Gold and silver only have physical values because someone decided they do. Sure you can hold gold so it physically exists, so does water, yet water's value is much lower than Gold. Wood from trees, water, etc are all used in many industries and they got their value because someone over the course of time decided their value (or lack of value). 

[Lihu]

9 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Look at the top marginal tax rate from 1940 thru 1960.  

Not just the top personal.

 

8 minutes ago, klineka said:

Gold and silver only have physical values because someone decided they do. Sure you can hold gold so it physically exists, so does water, yet water's value is much lower than Gold. Wood from trees, water, etc are all used in many industries and they got their value because someone over the course of time decided their value (or lack of value). 

They’ve had value since the beginning of mankind and will likely continue.

Wood jewelry doesn’t differentiate a rich man from a poor one.

[iacas]

30 minutes ago, klineka said:

Gold and silver only have physical values because someone decided they do.

There's a big difference between deciding that gold has value (or that a cow has value) and deciding that a series of bits have value. It goes beyond the physical.

Gold has physical, tactile, practical value.

[klineka]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

They’ve had value since the beginning of mankind and will likely continue.

Wood jewelry doesn’t differentiate a rich man from a poor one.

No, thats not entirely accurate IMO. For the sake of keeping religion out of this, lets assume mankind evolved from apes/primates. There was a point in time where Gold didnt have value. To my knowledge, gold having value isnt something that was hard wired into our DNA. Yes I do agree that it will continue to have value.

50 minutes ago, iacas said:

There's a big difference between deciding that gold has value (or that a cow has value) and deciding that a series of bits have value. It goes beyond the physical.

Gold has physical, tactile, practical value.

I agree there there is a big difference between deciding that gold has value and deciding that a series of bits have value, but just like gold, once enough people started to agree that those bits held value, then they have value, regardless of whether or not there is a physical thing you can touch/hold.

I think the instantaneous feature of some cryptocurrencies is one of the more promising aspects and something that can help provide value to certain cryptocurrencies. The ability to send money (in the form of a digital token) to anyone in the world within a few minutes and have minimal transaction fees has the potential to disrupt traditional banking transactions like wire transfers. It will take years, maybe even decades to get to that point, but many other technological advancements also took decades to become widely adopted and mainstream.

[Lihu]

7 hours ago, klineka said:

No, thats not entirely accurate IMO. For the sake of keeping religion out of this, lets assume mankind evolved from apes/primates. There was a point in time where Gold didnt have value. To my knowledge, gold having value isnt something that was hard wired into our DNA. Yes I do agree that it will continue to have value.

Apes aren’t mankind.

 

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, Lihu said:

Apes aren’t mankind.

 

You need to meet some of my college rugby friends.

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, boogielicious said:

You need to meet some of my college rugby friends.

I'd give you a rep point for this, but the thread doesn't allow it.

[efdeel74]

I am waitin it come to ATH again. (All Time High)

 

Its been weeks trying to break 12.000 and failed.

Edited March 10, 2018 by efdeel74

[nevets88]

 

[iacas]

In the first rigorously peer-reviewed article quantifying Bitcoin’s energy requirements, a Commentary appearing May 16 in the journal Joule, financial economist and blockchain specialist Alex de Vries uses a new methodology to pinpoint where Bitcoin’s electric energy consumption is headed and how soon it might get there. […]

His estimates, based in economics, put the minimum current usage of the Bitcoin network at 2.55 gigawatts, which means it uses almost as much electricity as Ireland. A single transaction uses as much electricity as an average household in the Netherlands uses in a month. By the end of this year, he predicts the network could be using as much as 7.7 gigawatts — as much as Austria and half of a percent of the world’s total consumption.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-05/cp-bet051018.php

[Braivo]

On 5/24/2018 at 8:46 PM, iacas said:

In the first rigorously peer-reviewed article quantifying Bitcoin’s energy requirements, a Commentary appearing May 16 in the journal Joule, financial economist and blockchain specialist Alex de Vries uses a new methodology to pinpoint where Bitcoin’s electric energy consumption is headed and how soon it might get there. […]

His estimates, based in economics, put the minimum current usage of the Bitcoin network at 2.55 gigawatts, which means it uses almost as much electricity as Ireland. A single transaction uses as much electricity as an average household in the Netherlands uses in a month. By the end of this year, he predicts the network could be using as much as 7.7 gigawatts — as much as Austria and half of a percent of the world’s total consumption.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-05/cp-bet051018.php

That does not sound sustainable. It seems bitcoin has become stagnant. The price and any optimism for where it might lead. 

[Beastie]

I’m bumpin this thread now that the price of Bitcoin is up to $60k. Crazy. I have about 3% off my portfolio in crypto, mainly Bitcoin. My brother in law is more brave(stupid). He has 50% in crypto, and has done very well the last year.  Any one from this thread still holding. If so you’ve done alright!

[Braivo]

I'm still in. Less than 5% of my portfolio, but it's booming. Love to see it. In fairness, I have no idea where this will all lead, but it's fun to participate.